Bakers face $135,000 fine for refusing to make cake for gay wedding

[theminister]

You realize you're in danger of calling yourself a bigot there; discriminating against the discriminators does not make you any better.

Yes, it does.

[thejazz97]

Yes, it does.

No, it doesn't. Discriminating against someone because you think what they did or who they are is wrong; is that wrong?

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

I think the cake shop owners should have the right to only sell cakes to people with three heads.

I don't know why people seem to think if I don't agree with them being fined I must hate homosexuals. People seem to think I support their bigotry. I don't. I've made it abundantly clear that I think the cake shop owners are backwards, and I don't support homophobia, but they genuinely believe that religious crap. I have homosexual friends, and if a business has practices I don't agree with I tend not to patronize them. I just think its absurd that they're being fined for not wanting to bake a cake for a lesbian couple. Its not a government run institution, or a public service they're being denied, its a private business. I think people should be allowed to choose their clientele.

If I owned a sandwich shop and didn't want to make you a sandwich because _____, then that's stupid, but I should be allowed to make that choice.

If there were a bakery where I lived that didn't serve homosexuals I wouldn't go there. I would advise against other people patronizing that business too. Its not the only place in the world to get a cake. There are plenty of other bakeries not run by bigots.I don't think those people should be forced to bake cakes if you don't want too. Do you really think forcing a homophobe to make a cake for a gay person is going to change their views? No. I wouldn't even want a cake these people made, and I don't now as a heterosexual man.

Better scenario is people don't frequent that business because of their practices, and the shop owners either learn to change their tune, or they go out of business because of it.

Well, if you defended a bakery that refused service to black people you would be summarily cast back to the stone ages from whence you came. That fact that you can publicly defend these bigots and still find people who publicly agree with you means our society still has a long way to go in terms of acceptance of gays.

Oh yeah, and the gay friends defence, not that I believe you have any. If they knew your stance on this matter, rest assured, you wouldn't have any.

[GLASSJAW]

You realize you're in danger of calling yourself a bigot there; discriminating against the discriminators does not make you any better.

lololol

[theminister]

No, it doesn't. Discriminating against someone because you think what they did or who they are is wrong; is that wrong?

I'm guessing that you're relatively new to rhetoric because you're missing most of the finer points of it.

Arguing against bigotry is not discrimination. Saying black is white or day is night doesn't make it so either.

Freedom and equality for one means freedom and equality for all or there is no such thing.

[thejazz97]

I'm guessing that you're relatively new to rhetoric because you're missing most of the finer points of it.

Arguing against bigotry is not discrimination. Saying black is white or day is night doesn't make it so either.

Freedom and equality for one means freedom and equality for all or there is no such thing.

You know what, you're right (But for future reference, discriminating against discriminators is still discriminating).

And I'm gonna go ahead and say that while there should be such a thing as freedom and equality for all, it's not happening. Not yet, anyhow.

[theminister]

You know what, you're right (But for future reference, discriminating against discriminators is still discriminating).

And I'm gonna go ahead and say that while there should be such a thing as freedom and equality for all, it's not happening. Not yet, anyhow.

As long as people do not vocally and in no uncertain terms speak against bigotry of all descriptions it will continue.

But in not categorically calling it out for the social ill that it is then it is allowed to fester and grow.

You do this frequently.

[thejazz97]

As long as people do not vocally and in no uncertain terms speak against bigotry of all descriptions it will continue.

But in not categorically calling it out for the social ill that it is, then it is allowed to fester and grow.

You do this frequently.

I've said discrimination is wrong. I don't think it's right. Do I discriminate unconsciously sometimes, yeah. Don't we all? I do my best to try to treat everyone equally. I've said that hate only leads to problems and that we should love people instead of hate/discriminate against them.

It shouldn't be allowed to fester and grow. However, I don't think a $135k fine is the way to go about purging this illness from society.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

I've said discrimination is wrong. I don't think it's right. Do I discriminate unconsciously sometimes, yeah. Don't we all? I do my best to try to treat everyone equally. I've said that hate only leads to problems and that we should love people instead of hate/discriminate against them.

It shouldn't be allowed to fester and grow. However, I don't think a $135k fine is the way to go about purging this illness from society.

There are undertones of homophobia in many of your posts going way back to that other thread. And you seemed fully conscious when you were making them. Although a history of concussion issues would explian a lot of things.

[Realtor Rod]

In my industry, we see gay couples all the time. I can't imagine turning a couple away for being gay. Some of my best clients are gay, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Why didn't they just send someone else the next day in their place for a wedding cake? Or go somewhere else. Why would you support their business knowing they don't support your freedom? Seems like another American money grab.

[Dral]

For those who think the Bakers did nothing wrong, what do you think about the following scenarios? A black man isn't allowed to use a public bathroom because he is black? A Muslim man refuses to cut a woman's hair because his religion doesn't allow it? A whole bunch of children are rounded up, taken away from their parents, and placed in Christian boarding schools simply because they are considered savages? The point is, prejudice and discrimination is wrong. You probably aren't going to make people more tolerant by fining them $135,000 - but you can make sure that if someone is providing a service to the public, they must provide that service to everyone and no one is left out dispite one's own personal belief, race, sex, religion etc. Yes, not baking a cake for someone is a pretty minor thing, but it's better to the draw the line at ZERO tolerance. At least, that's the kind of world I'd like to live in

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

For those who think the Bakers did nothing wrong, what do you think about the following scenarios? A black man isn't allowed to use a public bathroom because he is black? A Muslim man refuses to cut a woman's hair because his religion doesn't allow it? A whole bunch of children are rounded up, taken away from their parents, and placed in Christian boarding schools simply because they are considered savages? The point is, prejudice and discrimination is wrong. You probably aren't going to make people more tolerant by fining them $135,000 - but you can make sure that if someone is providing a service to the public, they must provide that service to everyone and no one is left out dispite one's own personal belief, race, sex, religion etc.Yes, not baking a cake for someone is a pretty minor thing, but it's better to the draw the line at ZERO tolerance. At least, that's the kind of world I'd like to live in

Exactly. Here's one for the "just go somewhere else" crowd. What's to stop some bass ackwards town from denying gay couples at all bakeries? You know, like before the civil rights movement. Where do they go then? How about a town that boycotts the bakery that serves gays until they follow suit? They are a minority after all. Don't think that could happen? History says different. The lawsuit and the amount are justified if they prevent something like this from ever happening again. I may not live to see the day where everyone is treated equally by people's own free will but I am thankful there are laws, and meaningful ones, in place to protect people until that day comes.

[thejazz97]

There are undertones of homophobia in many of your posts going way back to that other thread. And you seemed fully conscious when you were making them. Although a history of concussion issues would explian a lot of things.

I don't hate or fear gay people... there's some very cool people who are gay. I mean, you know what they say... one man's junk is another man's treasure, right?

I may not agree/support their lifestyle, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad people and it certainly doesn't mean I have the right to treat them any different or view them any different than anyone else. If someone in your family does something you don't agree with, they're still family and you still love them, right?

As far as being a believer and how that affects how I view them, Jesus said to love your neighbour as yourself. Paul said that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I've screwed up as much or perhaps even more than some people who identify as LBGTQ, so if anything, I need to treat them and serve them with love and honour and respect.

[McBackup]

Well, if you defended a bakery that refused service to black people you would be summarily cast back to the stone ages from whence you came. That fact that you can publicly defend these bigots and still find people who publicly agree with you means our society still has a long way to go in terms of acceptance of gays.

Oh yeah, and the gay friends defence, not that I believe you have any. If they knew your stance on this matter, rest assured, you wouldn't have any.

Show me where I defended a bakery that refused to serve black people. Please. It looks like you didn't read a thing I said, just some compulsive desire to attack anything you misconstrue as homophobic.

Also, your assertion that I don't have gay friends because I disagree with this fine is absurd. Gay people are not some hivemind with the exact same values and beliefs. You're coming across as pretty homophobic to me.

Rest assured, they're still my friends. Maybe that's because I prefer to associate with people intelligent enough to understand what I'm saying.

[WilliesStache14]

I support letting people make their own choices. That includes the Baker's right to bake for who they want. Pretty disgusting that this lesbian couple are starting out their marriage by ruining another person's life.

pretty much this

this is ridiculous, the double standard on this kind of crap is getting out of hand

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

Show me where I defended a bakery that refused to serve black people. Please. It looks like you didn't read a thing I said, just some compulsive desire to attack anything you misconstrue as homophobic.

Also, your assertion that I don't have gay friends because I disagree with this fine is absurd. Gay people are not some hivemind with the exact same values and beliefs. You're coming across as pretty homophobic to me.

Rest assured, they're still my friends. Maybe that's because I prefer to associate with people intelligent enough to understand what I'm saying.

The fact that you can't see the fitfalls involved in allowing businesses to pick and choose their clientele based on their beliefs boggles my mind. Do you think that if a business doesn't want to serve black people they should be allowed, or is it just gays? This time just answer the question. Then at least I will know if you are homophobic or just ignorant. You could be both.

[McBackup]

The fact that you can't see the fitfalls involved in allowing businesses to pick and choose their clientele based on their beliefs boggles my mind. Do you think that if a business doesn't want to serve black people they should be allowed, or is it just gays? This time just answer the question. Then at least I will know if you are homophobic or just ignorant. You could be both.

All right. Let me try to explain this clearly and succinctly enough for even you to understand.

I do not and would not support a business discriminating against homosexuals, blacks or any other group of people.

That said, I do not think they should be REQUIRED to serve anyone.

Is that a clear enough distinction?

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

All right. Let me try to explain this clearly and succinctly enough for even you to understand.

I do not and would not support a business discriminating against homosexuals, blacks or any other group of people.

That said, I do not think they should be REQUIRED to serve anyone.

Is that a clear enough distinction?

And yet you cannot see the parallels with the past. How'd that work out? Ignorance is bliss I guess.

[McBackup]

And yet you cannot see the parallels with the past. How'd that work out? Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Yeah, with our current social climate it's just a matter of time until we're back to burning witches at the stakes.

[coolboarder]

Anyone can act as a gay and pretend to be offended to collect $135 k. It is all about money. We need to have some protection for Christians who believe in God. It is their right to refuse any business to anyone. There are plenty of bakery who will be more than happy to obligate to their request for a lesbian wedding cake. I don't think that the lesbian couple are actually a gay if they are in for the money, imo. They could pretend to be one as they could be a roommates and don't really sleep together and split the money. It's disgusting.