J.I.A.H.N Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Kesheniel Is it your goal for the Canucks to be competitive in the next 10 years, and what I mean by competitive is being one of the top 6or 7 teams that have a higher statistical chance of winning the cup. Teams that play hard every night and dominate most teams. Is that your goal? Or is it to be a team that swims around the 12 to 20 spot for years and never really does dominate, just kind of a mushy, win some loose some kind of team? Because what I see is the Canucks on a huge downward trend in the next 4 years, if something drastic isn't done. We have gone from first over all to 13th OA in a matter of 4 years. In that time we have not added one elite player to replace D Sedin, H Sedin, Edler, Hamhuis, Luongo, Kesler etc. We have lost 2 of them , and our decline is well documented, how much longer do you think we will be even in the top 16? The answer is well, we could rent UFA's every few years, and hover around the middle of the league, and well we will be in the first round of the playoffs every year, and well, any team can get lucky....look at the LA Kings! They won the cup! Great argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Kesheniel Is it your goal for the Canucks to be competitive in the next 10 years, and what I mean by competitive is being one of the top 6or 7 teams that have a higher statistical chance of winning the cup. Teams that play hard every night and dominate most teams. Is that your goal? Or is it to be a team that swims around the 12 to 20 spot for years and never really does dominate, just kind of a mushy, win some loose some kind of team? Because what I see is the Canucks on a huge downward trend in the next 4 years, if something drastic isn't done. We have gone from first over all to 13th OA in a matter of 4 years. In that time we have not added one elite player to replace D Sedin, H Sedin, Edler, Hamhuis, Luongo, Kesler etc. We have lost 2 of them , and our decline is well documented, how much longer do you think we will be even in the top 16? The answer is well, we could rent UFA's every few years, and hover around the middle of the league, and well we will be in the first round of the playoffs every year, and well, any team can get lucky....look at the LA Kings! They won the cup! Great argument! Obviously the goal is to be competitive and the best way to do that is to retool just like we have been doing for the past year. We have drafted terribly up until 2 years ago and that has set us back a lot. We have just now started to restock the cupboards sort of speak, and made really good moves grabbing solid, already partially, or mostly developed prospects, to accelerate the process of retooling and making this team younger. We've added a number of very, very good prospects in just the past 2 years so personally, I'm excited to see what we can accomplish in the next few. To me the trend is upwards and exciting, we may just fall down a little and stumble before we are truly back to contention. Again, full on tanks aren't guarantees for future success and its impossible to tell how long they will take and if they will be successful. You could easily end up like Toronto or many other teams whos rebuilds werent successful and have to restart their rebuild all over again. You could end up like Edmonton bringing great players into a losing environment and throwing players not physically ready into positions they arent ready for and injuring them. Retooling is the much safer, more enjoyable and more realistic way of that end goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Just as a point, as we decline, other teams are not sitting around waiting for us to improve..............Calgary, Colorado, Dallas, Columbus, LA, and even Phili, and Edmonton will not wait, and that is just the team that didn't make the playoffs (Excluding Calgary) Us and Boston will both be in free fall soon! Without "Tanking", then we will be down in the bottom, and watching our vets retire.....not a good idea IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Just curious.....how did you like the Miller Signing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 48MPH You kind of left yourself wide open, there, but I understand your feelings. I understand a lot of CDC doesn't agree with me. That is ok. It is kind of funny how CDC works, some say we need to keep our picks and develop, others say the opposite, but this year we are short our 2nd and 3rd picks, so CDC says trade vets to get them back. Look we "could" trade our picks and prospects and have a top 10 competing team by trading and upgrading, some would say, we should not have traded fan favorites. Others have a hard and fast rule never to trade the Sedins or Vrbata or Edler, or Tanev or Burrows or Horvat etc. But we have to trade assets, and move assets, and we may go back a step or 2, but it may be for the best. Were you happy seeing our Canucks out played by Calgary? Because next year, it could be a lot worse, as our vets age 1 more year. My point is Higgins easily out played Vey this year, and that is a bad thing, as Higgins isn't that good anymore, so just going out and getting any young player isn't the answer. IMO that was a coach wanting a player and JB not having the jam to say no. And my point really isn't Vey, it is acquiring young elite talent to replace the aging elite talent......... I suggest trading this player and that player, suggest saying maybe McCann maybe an asset be can do with out and CDC goes wild, but Cassels shut down McDavid tonight, do we need another center right now, when we could be upgrading defense with that asset..........there is a lot of questions here, and I am as scattered as the next, but moving assets is needed, and again that may cause us to take a step back.. But if you are a true fan, you will understand and love them anyways! Life is hard man! I agree that some of the older players need to be moved, but there has to be a happy medium. That seems to be the route that Linden, Benning and co are moving in, which I'm fine with. Obviously we can't hold on to the likes of Burrows, Bieksa, Higgins etc etc etc forever, and moving players of that ilk for future assets such as picks or young players has to happen. That being said, I have doubts as to whether the fanbase will support a 5-10 year rebuild. We've seen what happened to attendance after just one season of missing the playoffs. Fans in Vancouver are a fickle bunch, and people will lose interest in a losing hockey team. Sure, "MAYBE" in 5-10 years the team will be strong again, and will be able to put people in the building, but, like it or not, money is a big issue, and it's hard to believe that the Aquilinis would be willing to swallow several years of that kind of monetary loss. And, TBH, the idea of selling every valuable asset we have for future assets just hits me as.....wrong. Something about purposely putting a poor product on the ice for the sake of future gains seems morally reprehensible to me. Like an abuse of the system that has been put in place. I am a Canucks fan, and my allegiance is to my home team, but putting a lousy product out with the intention of having it be terrible goes against every fiber of my being. Like I said, the happy medium approach is fine by me. I don't mind being a bubble team while we gather picks/prospects and build them up to the point where they're able to replace the current core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, I don't want to sell off all assets, nor the Sedins But......IMO Selling of vets, including Hamhuis, possibly including Edler, should be on the table........ As for answering the question of trading McCann....not alone, but as a valuable package........... And lastly, before I put my PJ's on, Selling off vets is not to induce Tanking but to claim value before it rots, dropping in the standings is only a bi-product of the sell off.............big difference! And in no way, do I want Horvat traded unless there was BIG over payment............Ryan Johansen type Overpayment.........so it ain't happening!.Just want to be clear on that one. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 It has become quite evident that the Canucks fans and especially ownership are on different paths when it comes to thinking what is best for the Canucks. The majority of the fan base seems quite accepting of a heavy youth movement, a few non playoff years and some short term pain in order to grow and hope for the future. Meanwhile ownership and management seems hell bent on making an ill advised playoff push each year just to cash in on the home game ravenue. I get it, money rules all but it is such a short sighted approach. It's quite evident that being able to draft well in today's NHL is the most prudent way to build a successful franchise (Sorry Edmonton...wait where is McDavid going?) getting eliminated in the first or second round and picking in the 18-23 range each year is going to make that success harder to achieve. When your playoff games are barely selling out, even after you reduced the prices it speaks volumes to the faith the fans have in your product and what direction they truly want. In a division that has a powerhouse like Anaheim (Yes, we all still hate Kes), a consistent cup contender like LA and 3 teams filled with incredible youthful talent in Edm, Cal and Phx on the rise, its only going to get harder, so why keep this irrational dream alive? Let the young players learn from the Sedins while they still can. I hope the youth movement starts soon and the ownership can see the bigger picture. You can't be a Cup contender if you don't make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCammer Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would like to see one CDC "fan" that would be okay with us sucking for a few years write me a $12,000 cheque for my tickets. Until you're prepared to do that SHUTUP. Staying competitive and creating a winning culture and infusing youth that earn the right to play is the only way we should be retooling the Canucks. Money talks and BS walks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would like to see one CDC "fan" that would be okay with us sucking for a few years write me a $12,000 cheque for my tickets. Until you're prepared to do that SHUTUP. Staying competitive and creating a winning culture and infusing youth that earn the right to play is the only way we should be retooling the Canucks. Money talks and BS walks. Yes!!!!!! Too many fans take their cue from media clowns. Remember when Boston beat us. All the idiots were crying that we have to get bigger and grittier. Now Calgary beats us with a few young players and guess what the idiots are crying for now. I'll have faith in Benning and Linden before I join the whiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 yes, i can't recall a season like last. the winning season was merely a footnote to the decline of the 2011 runnerup team. most intelligible fans would have sensed this. our instincts would have implied to us that this team is going nowhere post season. trouble is, it looks like more of the same coming up. another limpy drive to squeak into the playoffs just to be ousted soundly by a better team. the claim can be made, it doesnt matter where you pick but how well you pick but that is just pure bullcrap. the quality of picks available wanes as the lower picks are made. it's a matter of pure physics. and it is too bad management cannot recognize the willingness of the fan base to rebuild. it should be the natural order of things.. change? please . . . and new uni's too! Burn in ALL to the ground!. Trade EVERYBODY! Even Virtanen is tainted now that he has spent a few days in Utica, useless outside of the top 5 pick anyway. Trade Horvat too, he won't be as good as Toews so what's the point in keeping him? Build this team with top 3 three picks! It's the only way we'll every win the Stanley Cup in this lifetime!!!!!!11!!!! Rebuilds don't happen in one year. As have been stated many times in this thread Benning has started to infuse youth in this line up at all ages and at all positions. This year Horvat, Vey, and Kenins cut their teeth at the NHL level on the forward lines. Sbisa and Tanev continued to take on bigger roles while Clendening got a good taste of NHL action. Lack showed better this year when thrown into the fire than last year. Next October is a long way away so it's hard to predict how this team will look by then, but it looks like Richardson and Matthias will not be back. That will make room for two more forwards to slot in (Baertschi/Virtanen?). We'll have to see how the summer unfolds to see if any other spaces open up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, I don't want to sell off all assets, nor the Sedins But......IMO Selling of vets, including Hamhuis, possibly including Edler, should be on the table........ As for answering the question of trading McCann....not alone, but as a valuable package........... And lastly, before I put my PJ's on, Selling off vets is not to induce Tanking but to claim value before it rots, dropping in the standings is only a bi-product of the sell off.............big difference! And in no way, do I want Horvat traded unless there was BIG over payment............Ryan Johansen type Overpayment.........so it ain't happening!.Just want to be clear on that one. Cheers What valuable package with McCann and who are you going to trade it for? Have you seen him play? if you did you would know he posesses among other good attributes an NHL shot that would put him just behind Vbrata on this team. You can't teach that, few have it most never will. Benning just drafted him i'm pretty sure that he wont trade him. Going forward we have what looks like a fine group of centers in Horvat,McCann,Cassels all who have played a lot against McJesus who is going to be in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 It has become quite evident that the Canucks fans and especially ownership are on different paths when it comes to thinking what is best for the Canucks. The majority of the fan base seems quite accepting of a heavy youth movement, a few non playoff years and some short term pain in order to grow and hope for the future. Meanwhile ownership and management seems hell bent on making an ill advised playoff push each year just to cash in on the home game ravenue. I get it, money rules all but it is such a short sighted approach. It's quite evident that being able to draft well in today's NHL is the most prudent way to build a successful franchise (Sorry Edmonton...wait where is McDavid going?) getting eliminated in the first or second round and picking in the 18-23 range each year is going to make that success harder to achieve. When your playoff games are barely selling out, even after you reduced the prices it speaks volumes to the faith the fans have in your product and what direction they truly want. In a division that has a powerhouse like Anaheim (Yes, we all still hate Kes), a consistent cup contender like LA and 3 teams filled with incredible youthful talent in Edm, Cal and Phx on the rise, its only going to get harder, so why keep this irrational dream alive? Let the young players learn from the Sedins while they still can. I hope the youth movement starts soon and the ownership can see the bigger picture. Guy. Your wishing to lose. What does that make you? The Canucks are on the right path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliesStache14 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 this fanbase was barely able to handle missing the playoffs last year and then going out early this year no way will it be able to handle "years of no playoffs" lol. Half of them would become Seahawk fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The team made the playoffs. We are not tanking. And for those of you who think the fan base will stick around - they wont. A few years of poor hockey and we will be back to a half empty arena. I remember the dark ages (pre WCE) too well. Do not want to go back. In a 30 team league nothing guarantees championships. Also, the season is LONG. A team that even has a good chance of making the playoffs is much more exciting to watch than a team that is way out of it. You only tank when you have no chance of making the playoffs at the deadline. That is when you unload your assets, drop in the standings, and try to get a top 3 pick along with other draft picks/young players and hope for the best next season. Even Buffalo went out and got vets like Gionta and Meszaros in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No offence. Did you have season tickets the year before? Were you more entertained when Torts was coaching? I've had season tickets for 4-5 years and this year was by far the worst. The management does not believe this team can win I'm sorry but that bull$&!# they are feeding is just that bull$&!#. This core is not going to be competing for a cup; I do not mean not making the playoffs I mean they have absolutely no chance of making it out of the second round. It was obvious at the beginning of the year it was obvious at the end of they year. Having been to 35 of the home games last year I can tell you that of all those games 3 or 4 are the only ones that were actually good hockey games worth paying for. There were people at the games who were actually sleeping in the stands so it's not just me who thought it was boring. I had people texting me asking if the game was as boring at the arena as it was watching it on TV. Rogers arena sold out probably 2-3 times last year aside from that it was 70-85% full there were so many empty seats lower bowl now they may have been season tickets holders who just didn't show up but that was just unheard of until this year. The tickets are way overpriced if you're going to ice that lineup and I'm not going to pay chicago blackhawk prices for tickets. On top of all that people were selling the tickets I paid 120 dollars for a game at my discount for about 50 dollars on craigslist and still having problems selling them. If you can't make it to a game you basically are giving your tickets away another thing unheard of until this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gross-Misconduct Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 When your playoff games are barely selling out, even after you reduced the prices it speaks volumes... Im dont think they sold out any playoff games. All the failure of recent yrs combined with the '11 riot that is still in the minds of a lot of people, the Canucks have lost all the fan momentum they built up going into the '11 cup run. I only see it getting worse with this "lets just make the playoffs every year" mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Im dont think they sold out any playoff games. All the failure of recent yrs combined with the '11 riot that is still in the minds of a lot of people, the Canucks have lost all the fan momentum they built up going into the '11 cup run. I only see it getting worse with this "lets just make the playoffs every year" mentality. The problem is the west is full of Juggernauts just making the playoffs and anything can happen is a stupid mentality. This team got extremely lucky to match up with Calgary and they couldn't even beat them. There is no way they are beating LA, Anaheim, Nashville, St. Louis and Chicago; Not even mentioning Colorado who is going to be in that group very soon. You MIGHT get lucky and beat one of these teams in a series but you are not going to win 3 series against any of these teams they are too good and too deep. I do agree we need to compete but don't throw away chances to pick up players and prospects to just make the playoffs. Anyone who believes this current team can win the Stanley Cup is delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I've had season tickets for 4-5 years and this year was by far the worst. The management does not believe this team can win I'm sorry but that bull they are feeding is just that bull. This core is not going to be competing for a cup; I do not mean not making the playoffs I mean they have absolutely no chance of making it out of the second round. It was obvious at the beginning of the year it was obvious at the end of they year. Having been to 35 of the home games last year I can tell you that of all those games 3 or 4 are the only ones that were actually good hockey games worth paying for. There were people at the games who were actually sleeping in the stands so it's not just me who thought it was boring. I had people texting me asking if the game was as boring at the arena as it was watching it on TV. Rogers arena sold out probably 2-3 times last year aside from that it was 70-85% full there were so many empty seats lower bowl now they may have been season tickets holders who just didn't show up but that was just unheard of until this year. The tickets are way overpriced if you're going to ice that lineup and I'm not going to pay chicago blackhawk prices for tickets. On top of all that people were selling the tickets I paid 120 dollars for a game at my discount for about 50 dollars on craigslist and still having problems selling them. If you can't make it to a game you basically are giving your tickets away another thing unheard of until this year. Luckily, the majority of fans do not disagree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 It's simple. People around here will not pay to see the Canucks suck for a couple years. Hell, our team was on the verge of leaving back a few years ago because of it. The best way for the team here to be run is not following the Coilers example (a lot of good that did them in the last 10 years). It's best we stay competitive while offering young players to develop. Young players should not get jobs just because they are young. It must be earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The problem is the west is full of Juggernauts just making the playoffs and anything can happen is a stupid mentality. This team got extremely lucky to match up with Calgary and they couldn't even beat them. There is no way they are beating LA, Anaheim, Nashville, St. Louis and Chicago; Not even mentioning Colorado who is going to be in that group very soon. You MIGHT get lucky and beat one of these teams in a series but you are not going to win 3 series against any of these teams they are too good and too deep. I do agree we need to compete but don't throw away chances to pick up players and prospects to just make the playoffs. Anyone who believes this current team can win the Stanley Cup is delusional. Alright then, we don't need to tank because we're already in the basement since the West is full of juggernauts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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