Heretic Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Here's something for all of those that think "solar" is so clean and environmentally friendly to think about: KONRAD YAKABUSKI The Globe and Mail Published Wednesday, May. 27 2015, 5:20 PM EDT Last updated Thursday, May. 28 2015, 11:44 AM EDT The Saudi Arabian oil minister’s recent comment that the world’s largest petroleum producer sees a postfossil-fuel world in which his country becomes a solar-power superpower must have comforted climate activists that even the worst offenders can come around. After all, what could be more redemptive than turning abandoned oil fields into solar farms? Solar power’s image as “clean” and “limitless” has led princes and politicians alike to dole out huge subsidies to bask in its glow. Under the 2009 Green Energy Act, Ontario agreed to pay solar power operators as much as 10 times the market rate for the electricity they produce under 20-year contracts. Not satisfied with risk-free deals that will make many solar players rich at consumers’ expense, Ontario’s solar industry is now lobbying for even more. And it’s leveraging solar’s apple-pie image to press politicians into giving it what it wants. On Tuesday, the Canadian Solar Industries Association (CanSIA) released a poll purporting to show that three-quarters of Ontarians “would like to see the government invest more in solar powered electricity and in technologies that enable solar power.” The same proportion apparently supports reserving revenue from Ontario’s proposed cap-and-trade scheme for more solar power and related technologies. The folks at CanSIA are no fools. They hired the chief strategist behind Premier Kathleen Wynne’s 2014 re-election to do their polling. And David Herle put just the right spin on the results, saying, “Those who voted Wynne’s Liberals into power are looking to government to pursue opportunities presented by the solar industry.” It’s not clear if these voters would be as gung-ho about solar power, however, if they considered the environmental implications of its expansion. The industry doesn’t talk much, or at all, about the downsides of manufacturing solar panels or where all these panels will end up when they conk out. Think of how much toxic waste is generated by consumer electronics and you get a small inkling of what a world lit with solar power, and the batteries needed to store their energy, might look like. Solar power is still a marginal energy source, accounting for about 1 per cent of global electricity production. Yet, its environmental impact is already considerable, according to the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition. The San Francisco-based group started out three decades ago tracking the e-waste produced by high-tech industry. It now produces an annual Solar Scorecardon panel manufacturers that depicts an industry that has got worse over time. Most producers refuse to provide any environmental data on their supply chains or manufacturing operations at all. “We need to take action now to reduce the use of toxic chemicals in [photovoltaic production], develop responsible recycling systems and protect workers throughout the global PV supply chain,” the coalition said in its latest report. The main factor behind declining costs for solar panels – the shift in production to China – has also made their environmental impact harder to track and regulate. Manufacturing solar panels is energy intensive. Depending on where they’re made, the panels need to produce emissions-free electricity for quite a long time to make up for the greenhouse gases generated by their manufacturing. Their components, which include several so-called conflict minerals, are often mined in countries with weak health and safety regulations. Panel production also generates highly toxic byproducts. Chinese panel makers used to just dump silicon tetrachloride on fields near their factories. China now requires panel makers to recycle almost all of this waste, though San Jose State University environmental studies professor Dustin Mulvaney says, “It remains to be seen how well the rules are being enforced.” Imagine a world, then, in which solar power actually accounted for a major, rather than marginal, share of electricity generation. And consider the massive increase in battery production that would be needed to store all this energy, since the sun only shines intermittently. Making electric batteries is even dirtier than making solar panels. Ask the poor Chinese folk whose crops, air and water have been ruined by the“graphite rain” generated by nearby mines. The average smartphone contains about 15 grams of graphite, but an electric car battery contains 50 kilograms of it. Solar power surely has a role to play in combating climate change. But it is not the angelic solution to the world’s energy problems its backers suggest. It could even create a whole new set of environmental woes that will require a new set of elusive global protocols to tackle. Who’s polling Ontarians about that? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/the-darker-side-of-solar-power/article24649804/ Edit: Sorry for the one sided viewpoint...here's a better link showing the pros and cons of various energy sources: http://www.triplepundit.com/special/energy-options-pros-and-cons/fusion-power-pros-cons/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 exactlyOh you are so eloquent.Pound for pound, this is just such a joke. Obviously the minerals have to be mined. Afghanistan, a desolate, arid place has the minerals needed to supply solar panels and LED screens for an almost inexhaustible amount of time... Why? WHY? Is it okay to even juxtapose this. This article is a complete one-sided argument fit for the fancy of a dying industry.Heretic, you're a ****ing fossil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_74 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Im gonna go back to burning coal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazmanian Devil Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The danker side of solar power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Meanwhile somewhere right around the corner........ http://www.electrochem.org/dl/Interface/wtr/wtr05/wtr05_p32-36.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_radical_battery also organic solar cells are really coming around after a slow start.... https://www.coursera.org/learn/solar-cell ^^^ scroll down click on the Organic and Polymer Solar Cells section, there are multiple videos to learn all about them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_solar_cell More related reading very cool stuff... http://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2014/01/organic-mega-flow-battery-promises-breakthrough-for-renewable-energy http://phys.org/tags/organic+solar+cells/ http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/news/promising-organic-battery-technology-for-energy-storage-030414/ http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0079670013000427/1-s2.0-S0079670013000427-main.pdf?_tid=4fe9c944-05cc-11e5-8183-00000aacb35d&acdnat=1432881257_dd767bc2190863d5839f03a3c947fec1 Pass the nano grass maaaan :D http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/green-tech/solar/nanograss-is-greener-on-the-photovoltaic-side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The article brings up good, true points. The mining aspect is kind of a wash because most other types of conventional power generation also involve mining. But it is true that there is toxic by products, and it is true that the fact that China controls the majority of production, and has a monopoly on some of the materials needed, means that its difficult to judge how well its being regulated, and subsequently how bad the pollution is. That being said this is a minuscule, inconsequential problem compared to the damage oil, natural gas and coal cause. It's not even close. With more coin put into research and development the gap will widen substantially too. In addition to production hopefully shifting to somewhere more regulated and environmentally friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Was that article done by the Fraser Institute? It's not untrue the pieces of information they have in there, but they also don't adequately compare them to the current effect of non-solar options. It's a one sided piece meant to do nothing but show the worst possible side of solar energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Honestly expected a picture of Satan sucking souls through solar panels... kinda disappointed... anyways, yeah, if governments poured more money into it, we'd have more effecient cells, better manufacturing techniques and it'd be more eco friendly... this is a problem that should be solved, not a problem that makes us stop using solar energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The darker side of manure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The green energy lobbyists are gonna be as powerful as the oil lobbyists soon and deny that green energy is good for the planet. When in the reality over population is about the same as another 100000000 more cars on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Probably quite useful, had some of these initiatives been started back, perhaps mid-20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Meanwhile somewhere right around the corner........ http://www.electrochem.org/dl/Interface/wtr/wtr05/wtr05_p32-36.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_radical_battery also organic solar cells are really coming around after a slow start.... https://www.coursera.org/learn/solar-cell ^^^ scroll down click on the Organic and Polymer Solar Cells section, there are multiple videos to learn all about them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_solar_cell More related reading very cool stuff... http://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2014/01/organic-mega-flow-battery-promises-breakthrough-for-renewable-energy http://phys.org/tags/organic+solar+cells/ http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/news/promising-organic-battery-technology-for-energy-storage-030414/ http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0079670013000427/1-s2.0-S0079670013000427-main.pdf?_tid=4fe9c944-05cc-11e5-8183-00000aacb35d&acdnat=1432881257_dd767bc2190863d5839f03a3c947fec1 Pass the nano grass maaaan :D http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/green-tech/solar/nanograss-is-greener-on-the-photovoltaic-side Was that article done by the Fraser Institute? It's not untrue the pieces of information they have in there, but they also don't adequately compare them to the current effect of non-solar options. It's a one sided piece meant to do nothing but show the worst possible side of solar energy. Honestly expected a picture of Satan sucking souls through solar panels... kinda disappointed... anyways, yeah, if governments poured more money into it, we'd have more effecient cells, better manufacturing techniques and it'd be more eco friendly... this is a problem that should be solved, not a problem that makes us stop using solar energy Intelligence 3 - Stupidity 1 We won this battle in the war brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The darker side of manure... Is that cows fart , but its their burping we should be worried about. http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/04/cow-farts-really-significantly-contribute-global-warming/ "In actuality it’s not as much the farting that’s the problem, cows’ burping and manure contribute more methane gas than flatulence. According to researchers at New Zealand’s largest Crown Research Institute, AGResearch, up to 95 percent of the emissions comes from the cow’s mouth rather than its behind. It’s estimated, through whichever orifice, that each individual cow lets out between thirty and fifty gallons of methane per day. With an estimated 1.3 to 1.5 billion cattle in the world today, this adds up fast. Exactly how significant this it to our global environment isn’t something that anyone can easily put a number on, but the EPA, NASA, various global agriculture organizations, and the United Nations all recognize that this is a real problem. In recent years, several different solutions have been proposed. Scientists and experts have experimented with cows’ diets to see if that could help cut down on the amount of methane gas. For instance, Welsh scientists studied the effects of putting garlic into cows’ feed. According to BBC News, “Garlic directly attacks the organisms in the gut that produce methane.” So far, results have been positive" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckamo Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 This article conveniently ignores the fact that there is a huge amount of research going on in solar energy as well as energy storage. Yeah, the current silicon PV technology isn't the cleanest, but as Dangles has already pointed out there are so many new alternatives. And storage-wise, one of the hottest research topics right now is the conversion of CO2 to methanol. This not only provides a liquid fuel (for which we are already equipped for, infrastructure-wise), it also closes the CO2 cycle. I would venture a guess and say that 10-20 years down the road, most of that article will be irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Heretic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The green energy lobbyists are gonna be as powerful as the oil lobbyists soon and deny that green energy is good for the planet. When in the reality over population is about the same as another 100000000 more cars on the road. Yeah, was anyone else cheering for SLJ in the Kingsmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Damn, I skipped 'The Globe and Mail'. That was a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 29, 2015 Author Share Posted May 29, 2015 Heretic, you're a ****ing fossil. Heretic.... You guys got a problem or what? Don't shoot the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 If I didn't know better, I'd say the OP works for an oil company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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