[proposal] Bieksa trade + lack trade

[Scorvat]

To VAN:

2nd

To DET:

Bieksa

why detroit does this:

Detroit wants a physical defender to take some of the workload away from Kronwall. Bieksa would fit perfectly.

why Vancouver does this

To free cap space (4.5M) and make room for prospects such as Clendenning and Corrado.

TO VAN:

2nd (33rd OA)

TO EDM:

Lack

THOUGHTS?

[Scorvat]

Then package our 1st and (2)2nds for a top 10 pick?

[elvis15]

I think Detroit wants a physical defender to take over from Kronwall. Not as sure they're interested in a player who's near retirement but I'd certainly call and ask.

Trading Lack within the division may mean Benning want's a premium, but that's the kind of value I'd want back. Regardless, I don't think a new goalie fixes Edmonton's problems as much as fixing everything else.

Then package our 1st and (2)2nds for a top 10 pick?

That won't get us a top pick, not when the talent in this draft is better in the top 10 and falls off a bit after.

[Scorvat]

I think Detroit wants a physical defender to take over from Kronwall. Not as sure they're interested in a player who's near retirement but I'd certainly call and ask.

Trading Lack within the division may mean Benning want's a premium, but that's the kind of value I'd want back. Regardless, I don't think a new goalie fixes Edmonton's problems as much as fixing everything else.

That won't get us a top pick, not when the talent in this draft is better in the top 10 and falls off a bit after.

But isnt it a deep draft?.

Maybe a team would rather 3 later picks than the 1 they will take in their current spot. We could also add a prospect like:

Jensen

Gaunce

Vey

But would not add:

Baertschi

Horvat

Virtanen

Cassels

Shinkaruk

McCann

[coastal1]

The way Bieksa made a fool of himself with Ferland in the play-offs, I don't think his value as a physiscal player is worth anything.

[Mackcanuck]

Detroit is about a 3 hour drive from Bieksa's Home town of Grimsby Ont., He could waive.

Both trades seem feasible.

[Gstank29]

IF you're sending Lack to Edmonton you may also well blow the whole team up

Anahiem

Edmonton

LA

Calgary/Vancouver will be the playoff teams (assuming these are wildcard spots)

San Jose

Arizona

Seem like they are going to be going though a rebuilding process, especially if San Jose doesn't get a goalie

But if you look at the central

Dallas

St louis

Minny

Columbus

Chicago

Winnipeg

All look like playoff teams

[Erik Karlsson]

The way Bieksa made a fool of himself with Ferland in the play-offs, I don't think his value as a physiscal player is worth anything.

Yeah I don't think anyone is scared of Bieksa anymore. He just bounces off players when he tries to hit them most of the time.

[Scorvat]

^^^^

Well good thing pro scouts dont look at just one series. Most ppl on here seem to think EVERY player on our team are worthless when it comes to trade value. Except for our unproven prospects that is.

Bieksa will do better with a new team. Especially on the east coast. The wings would welcome him with open arms IMHO

[elvis15]

But isnt it a deep draft?.

Maybe a team would rather 3 later picks than the 1 they will take in their current spot. We could also add a prospect like:

Jensen

Gaunce

Vey

But would not add:

Baertschi

Horvat

Virtanen

Cassels

Shinkaruk

McCann

There are good prospects still available later, but the top 10 or so prospects are higher end and will command a premium for the chance to draft them.

You aren't getting a top 10 for those picks. Adding one of the three above likely won't do it either. The 16th if we could get it (or something similar) and the 23rd might make them think, but that's about it and we'd have to add likely as well the higher it gets above 10th overall.

[SaintPatrick33]

Detroit used to take older players and give them a chance, guys like Modano, Bertuzzi, Cole, so I could see them being a legitimate trade partner for Juice. Probably the most realistic Bieksa proposal made thus far lol

[Scorvat]

Detroit used to take older players and give them a chance, guys like Modano, Bertuzzi, Cole, so I could see them being a legitimate trade partner for Juice. Probably the most realistic Bieksa proposal made thus far lol

Even if we have to retain 1.5 at most. We get a 2nd and will only be stuck with the retained salary for 1 season.

So we clear a spot for a prospect and save 3M in cap + a 2nd round pick.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

IF you're sending Lack to Edmonton you may also well blow the whole team up

Anahiem

Edmonton

LA

Calgary/Vancouver will be the playoff teams (assuming these are wildcard spots)

San Jose

Arizona

Seem like they are going to be going though a rebuilding process, especially if San Jose doesn't get a goalie

But if you look at the central

Dallas

St louis

Minny

Columbus

Chicago

Winnipeg

All look like playoff teams

When did Columbus join the central, this is news to me? I think you mean Nashville

Here is the thing. Every year people believe all these teams “look” like playoff teams and every year it never turns out.

What makes that AV’s better than last year? Av’s making the playoffs in 2014 was more of a fluke (Varlamov playing unreal) than them missing the playoffs this year.

What makes the Jets better than last year? Pavelec was the reason they made it, but he’s fairly hot and cold from season to season.

What makes the flames better? Can we expect flames to have that many late comebacks again? Can their D core keep up that unrealistically high shooting %

What makes LA better? Sutter has a very short shelve life, could he have not already hit the end

What about the Blues? Rumour is Backes could be on the move as they transition the team to a new core with Tarasenko leading the way.

What about the wild? They don’t make the post season this year without Dubnyk playing lights out. Does that happen again next year? Do they even sign him?

What about canucks? Do we get solid goaltending from miller? Can the twins stay offensively productive? Can the youth take more important strides?

Do the oilers really throw it all together?

Honestly outside of the Hawks and Ducks it’s a rolling of the dice. Last year almost all people on CDC had the Stars finishing higher than the canucks but then Seguin went down and it cost them. There are too many variables to make an accurate guess on who makes it and who doesn’t.

The best thing a team can do is go out and play every game to win, let the cards fall where they lie. Only add to our roster without subtracting from the future. Don’t go out and give up future players for a better chance to make post season, just use what we already have and play to win each game. If we make the post season, great. If not, oh well, as long as our youth are taking strides forward and progressing.

We need to speed up the progression of the Baertschi’s, Horvats, Kassians, Corrado’s and Clendenings and you do that by a winning environment. Winning environment doesn’t mean making the playoffs and going on a long run, it means you have the expectations to be in every game and to win every game. Losing is not an acceptable options. Compare the oilers to the flames. One team is comfortable in losing and giving an poor effort, while the other team places unrealistic expectations on its players. Flames doesn’t take any excuses as a reasons for losing and because of that Calgary’s 6^th overall pick is already better than all of Edmonton’s 1^st overall picks even though they’ve been in the league for twice the amount of time. That’s how you develop players.

With regards to these trades. Yes done deal, these are the two players I think we should be moving this summer and right around that value, if that’s the best value we can get let’s make it happen.

Personally I think we should be moving them for 2016 picks.

Lack to CAR for LA’s 2016 first round

Bieska to TO for 2016 2^nd round pick (conditional if he re-signs, if he doesn’t it becomes a third round).

If were really set on making up a second round pick this year. Higgins/Hansen can be used to fill that gap. Give Kenins more of a role on the 4^th line.

[Scorvat]

IF you're sending Lack to Edmonton you may also well blow the whole team up

Anahiem

Edmonton

LA

Calgary/Vancouver will be the playoff teams (assuming these are wildcard spots)

San Jose

Arizona

Seem like they are going to be going though a rebuilding process, especially if San Jose doesn't get a goalie

But if you look at the central

Dallas

St louis

Minny

ColumbusNashville

Chicago

Winnipeg

All look like playoff teams

Teams that can make the playoffs:

Ducks

Blackhawks

preds

blues

jets

wild

avalanche

stars

canucks

flames

kings

sharks

oilers

The only team in the west i would gaurentee not making it is the coyotes. But even they could surpise.

The NHL is a lot more competitive now. But we cant go in thinking omg there are too many good teams and we have no chance. Then blow the team up. Thats how you develope a team in a losing environment. We would become the Sabers/Oilers of the NHL for the next decade. No thanks.

Gillis IMO made a huge mistake not trading schnieder to the Oilers. Here are the reasons.

1. We would have gotten a better package.

2. The Oilers would likely be a mediocore team like us. Making the playoffs but not getting too far. Now they are getting McDavid. Which would not of happened if we traded them schnieder.

Luckily for Gillis Horvat looks good. But id rather the oiler have schnieder than McDavid. So when it comes to trading you take the better deal. Dont be scared to trade within the division or it may come back to haunt you

[Angry Goose]

I think Detroit wants a physical defender to take over from Kronwall. Not as sure they're interested in a player who's near retirement but I'd certainly call and ask.

Trading Lack within the division may mean Benning want's a premium, but that's the kind of value I'd want back. Regardless, I don't think a new goalie fixes Edmonton's problems as much as fixing everything else.

That won't get us a top pick, not when the talent in this draft is better in the top 10 and falls off a bit after.

I think it was Elliot Friedman who stated it but in addition to wanting help on the back end, DET wants a mean RH defense man. Bieksa would definitely fit that need for the right price, 2nd rounder or b+ prospect, but if I'm Holland you preferably want a younger player like Gudbranson.

[elvis15]

I was Friedman. Maybe I'm reading too much into this but they looked at their prospects for that replacement but didn't find that skillset. Maybe they'd be ok with an older player of that ilk, but I find it hard to believe they'd want to get older. They'd likely prefer a younger defenceman with his career not on the tail end, or a prospect who's close and can give them that.

5. Hearing Detroit is looking for a defenceman who can take some of the physical responsibility from Niklas Kronwall. While the Red Wings like their prospects, they see too many similarities to what is already there. Wanted: someone with a bit of mean.

[silver_surfer]

I think fair value for both players (plus a premium for an in division trade)

[Baer.]

I was Friedman. Maybe I'm reading too much into this but they looked at their prospects for that replacement but didn't find that skillset. Maybe they'd be ok with an older player of that ilk, but I find it hard to believe they'd want to get older. They'd likely prefer a younger defenceman with his career not on the tail end, or a prospect who's close and can give them that.

I would also add that Bieksa only having 1 year left would mean they could let him walk if one of their prospects is ready.

Thing is will Juice waive before he has a contract extension, and then will Detroit want him after that?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Pittsburgh might be intrigued by Bieksa. They've lacked physicality on their blueline for a long time, and with Ehrhoff and Martin departing, they need a veteran to help mentor their kids on the back-end, particularly Pouliot who is going to be leaned on heavily next season.

St. Louis may be similar. After letting Jackman go, and being in a very tough West, they could use Bieksa who has thrived against the Blues' rival Blackhawks.

[elvis15]

I would also add that Bieksa only having 1 year left would mean they could let him walk if one of their prospects is ready.

Thing is will Juice waive before he has a contract extension, and then will Detroit want him after that?

That doesn't really solve their issue though, does it? Then they're still left with a group of prospects that have similar skill sets - which doesn't include that physical option Detroit wants. In that case, why wouldn't they just trade for someone they can add to their prospect pool that has the different skill set which they can use longer term?

Pittsburgh might be intrigued by Bieksa. They've lacked physicality on their blueline for a long time, and with Ehrhoff and Martin departing, they need a veteran to help mentor their kids on the back-end, particularly Pouliot who is going to be leaned on heavily next season.

St. Louis may be similar. After letting Jackman go, and being in a very tough West, they could use Bieksa who has thrived against the Blues' rival Blackhawks.

I don't know about the Pens though, they aren't bringing back Martin or Ehrhoff because they want to use that cap space elsewhere. I'm not sure why they'd bring in a different, still expensive D if that is their plan.

St Louis has a little bit of cap probably, but not sure if they'd need Bieksa. Bieksa would certainly put them right up against it if they did, but he'd be a short term band aid anyway.