VanGnome Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I was just bored and decided to do some digging to see for myself just HOW horrible the drafting for the Canucks was between 2000 and 2010. I specifically picked this range as it's a good sample size, it leaves out the drafting of the Sedins (would skew the numbers) and 2010 is long ago enough, that we should have seen some impact from that draft by now. The time span traverses parts of two general managers reigns, and the entire reign of one GM. Draft Year: 2000 Players Drafted: 7 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2001 Players Drafted: 6 Players > 200 NHL Games: 2 RJ Umberger, 16 OA. Traded for Martin Rucinsky (Walked as UFA) K Bieksa 151 OA. Traded for 2016 2nd Round Pick Draft Year: 2002 Players Drafted: 11 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2003 Players Drafted: 10 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 R Kesler 23 OA. Traded for 2014 1st Round Pick, 23 OA (J. McCann) L. Sbisa N. Bonino Draft Year: 2004 Players Drafted: 7 Players > 200 NHL Games: 4 C. Schneider 26 OA. Traded for 2013 1st Round Pick, 9 OA (B. Horvat) A. Edler, 91 OA. M. Brown, 159 OA. Traded for N. McIver (Former Canuck draft pick, claimed on waivers by Anaheim. Walked as UFA) J. Hansen, 287 OA. Draft Year: 2005 Players Drafted: 6 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 M. Raymond, 51 OA. Walked as UFA Draft Year: 2006 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 M. Grabner, 14 OA. Traded for (Trade was a package, these were the primary pieces) K. Ballard (Walked as UFA) Draft Year: 2007 Players Drafted: 6 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2008 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 C. Hodgson, 10 OA. Traded for Z. Kassian. Traded for B. Prust Draft Year: 2009 Players Drafted: 7 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2010 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 All told, the Canucks in these years had a 13.3% (10 picks out of a total of 75) conversion rate in picking players who would ultimately "Succeed" in the NHL (success as measured by playing 200 or more games in the NHL). The Canucks had 4 of their drafts yield 0 NHL players with 200 or more games. The Canucks had 4 of their drafts yield 1 NHL player with 200 or more games. The Canucks had 1 of their drafts yield 2 NHL players with 200 or more games. The Canucks had 1 of their drafts yield 4 NHL players with 200 or more games. Of the players the Canucks had drafted in that time period to play 200 games or more in the NHL (in general, not with the Canucks), 7 of those players were traded for other assets: K. Bieksa: 2016 2nd Round Pick R. Umberger: 1 player who left via UFA after part of 1 season R. Kesler: 1 Prospect and 2 players still with the organization M. Brown: 1 Player whom the Canucks previously drafted (never played with Vancouver after being re-aquired), and then left via UFA C. Schneider: 1 Top Prospect currently with the organization M. Grabner: 1 Player who left via UFA after 148 games over 3 seasons C. Hodgson: 1 Player who was with the Canucks for 171 games over parts of 4 seasons, ultimately traded for 1 Player with 1 year left on their contract and will likely leave via UFA Of the players the Canucks had drafted in that time period to play 200 games or more in the NHL and are still with the team: 2 Of the players the Canucks had drafted in that time period to play 200 games or more in the NHL and left via UFA: 1 Not only was the drafting horrendous, but player retention and return acquisition has been downright unbelievably bad. Final thought: Ron Delorme has been the Chief Amateur Scout since 2000. I don't necessarily blame Delorme for every pick, although ultimately he is responsible for presenting to the GM the recommendations from the rest of the Amateur Scouts in various regions, so it really speaks to his ability to effectively delegate responsibility and judge the ability of those scouts making those recommendations. Since 2011, there have been 2 questionable drafts (2011 and 2012) and 3 seemingly outstanding drafts (2013, 2014, 2015). And look at that, it's the end of the day and time to go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEGCanuck Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 As they say, the writing is on the wall. Me thinks it's time for change of the scouting staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 We get it, we used to suck at drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Draft Year: 2010 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 All told, the Canucks in these years had a 13.3% (10 picks out of a total of 75) conversion rate in picking players who would ultimately "Succeed" in the NHL (success as measured by playing 200 or more games in the NHL). I don't know that 200 games is a fair measure for more recent years. As of right now, only 10 players from the entire 2010 draft have played 200 games or more. Maybe games played should be prorated based on how many years have passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseBlue Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 No way. Everyone love delorme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 You're bored? Go outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaku Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Holy smokes... That's a pretty awful turn out over 10 years... Atrocious really. Hopefully Benning knows what he is doing. I feel good about recent years draft though. Hopefully the majority will turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Perhaps a comparison with some other teams who were also perennial playoff teams during that span like the Canucks were. As of right now, it's just sour grapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Holy smokes... That's a pretty awful turn out over 10 years... Atrocious really. Hopefully Benning knows what he is doing. I feel good about recent years draft though. Hopefully the majority will turn out. Thanks for the effort OP. I wonder if any NHL teams have a worse record than the Canucks over that period. It is remarkable the Canucks have done as well in the standing as they have. Shows how important the Sedins have been. It also reminds us of how important high draft picks (like the Sedins) are. It is also pretty clear that 2013 and 2014 were excellent drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 You're bored? Go outside. Not that simple when you have to put on the big boy pants and work for a living. Bored != Nothing to do. Nature of my job means there's peaks and valleys in workload. Thanks for the effort OP. I wonder if any NHL teams have a worse record than the Canucks over that period. It is remarkable the Canucks have done as well in the standing as they have. Shows how important the Sedins have been. It also reminds us of how important high draft picks (like the Sedins) are. It is also pretty clear that 2013 and 2014 were excellent drafts. Yeah, I've been kind of interested in that myself, fortunately it should be pretty easy to compile these lists for the other 29 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Coles notes version: The team most commonly lauded for drafting like a boss, the Detroit Red Wings, have 13 players vs 10 Canucks players playing above 200 games over that same span. With another 3 players close to making it 16. 13 vs 10 ain't so bad. Matthias, Kindl, Abdelkader, Helm, Franzen, Howard, Quincy, Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson, Kronwall, Kopecky. Most of these guys are the supporting cast....not one can even be considered a star other than maybe Kronwall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I was just bored and decided to do some digging to see for myself just HOW horrible the drafting for the Canucks was between 2000 and 2010. I specifically picked this range as it's a good sample size, it leaves out the drafting of the Sedins (would skew the numbers) and 2010 is long ago enough, that we should have seen some impact from that draft by now. The time span traverses parts of two general managers reigns, and the entire reign of one GM. Draft Year: 2000 Players Drafted: 7 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2001 Players Drafted: 6 Players > 200 NHL Games: 2 RJ Umberger, 16 OA. Traded for Martin Rucinsky (Walked as UFA) K Bieksa 151 OA. Traded for 2016 2nd Round Pick Draft Year: 2002 Players Drafted: 11 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2003 Players Drafted: 10 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 R Kesler 23 OA. Traded for 2014 1st Round Pick, 23 OA (J. McCann) L. Sbisa N. Bonino Draft Year: 2004 Players Drafted: 7 Players > 200 NHL Games: 4 C. Schneider 26 OA. Traded for 2013 1st Round Pick, 9 OA (B. Horvat) A. Edler, 91 OA. M. Brown, 159 OA. Traded for N. McIver (Former Canuck draft pick, claimed on waivers by Anaheim. Walked as UFA) J. Hansen, 287 OA. Draft Year: 2005 Players Drafted: 6 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 M. Raymond, 51 OA. Walked as UFA Draft Year: 2006 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 M. Grabner, 14 OA. Traded for (Trade was a package, these were the primary pieces) K. Ballard (Walked as UFA) Draft Year: 2007 Players Drafted: 6 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2008 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 1 C. Hodgson, 10 OA. Traded for Z. Kassian. Traded for B. Prust Draft Year: 2009 Players Drafted: 7 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 Draft Year: 2010 Players Drafted: 5 Players > 200 NHL Games: 0 All told, the Canucks in these years had a 13.3% (10 picks out of a total of 75) conversion rate in picking players who would ultimately "Succeed" in the NHL (success as measured by playing 200 or more games in the NHL). The Canucks had 4 of their drafts yield 0 NHL players with 200 or more games. The Canucks had 4 of their drafts yield 1 NHL player with 200 or more games. The Canucks had 1 of their drafts yield 2 NHL players with 200 or more games. The Canucks had 1 of their drafts yield 4 NHL players with 200 or more games. Of the players the Canucks had drafted in that time period to play 200 games or more in the NHL (in general, not with the Canucks), 7 of those players were traded for other assets: K. Bieksa: 2016 2nd Round Pick R. Umberger: 1 player who left via UFA after part of 1 season R. Kesler: 1 Prospect and 2 players still with the organization M. Brown: 1 Player whom the Canucks previously drafted (never played with Vancouver after being re-aquired), and then left via UFA C. Schneider: 1 Top Prospect currently with the organization M. Grabner: 1 Player who left via UFA after 148 games over 3 seasons C. Hodgson: 1 Player who was with the Canucks for 171 games over parts of 4 seasons, ultimately traded for 1 Player with 1 year left on their contract and will likely leave via UFA Of the players the Canucks had drafted in that time period to play 200 games or more in the NHL and are still with the team: 2 Of the players the Canucks had drafted in that time period to play 200 games or more in the NHL and left via UFA: 1 Not only was the drafting horrendous, but player retention and return acquisition has been downright unbelievably bad. Final thought: Ron Delorme has been the Chief Amateur Scout since 2000. I don't necessarily blame Delorme for every pick, although ultimately he is responsible for presenting to the GM the recommendations from the rest of the Amateur Scouts in various regions, so it really speaks to his ability to effectively delegate responsibility and judge the ability of those scouts making those recommendations. Since 2011, there have been 2 questionable drafts (2011 and 2012) and 3 seemingly outstanding drafts (2013, 2014, 2015). And look at that, it's the end of the day and time to go home. Or, and this is just a random thought, perhaps Delorme was doing what you suggest he should have been doing and the management team above him ignored his suggestions. Perhaps he was the guy who supported the idea that the Canucks should pick Edler, and that they should draft Bieksa, and Kesler and Schneider. Maybe they have kept him around because when the upper management have done a 20/20 hindsight on what they elected to do (over Delorme's wishes), they saw that more often than not, he was correct. Wouldn't that be a mind-screw to some people. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Coles notes version: The team most commonly lauded for drafting like a boss, the Detroit Red Wings, have 13 players vs 10 Canucks players playing above 200 games over that same span. With another 3 players close to making it 16. 13 vs 10 ain't so bad. Matthias, Kindl, Abdelkader, Helm, Franzen, Howard, Quincy, Hudler, Fleischmann, Filppula, Ericsson, Kronwall, Kopecky. Most of these guys are the supporting cast....not one can even be considered a star other than maybe Kronwall. Chicago has had 20 LA has had 21 Pittsburgh has had 17 Boston has had 15 NYR have had 17 Wash has had 17 Edm has had 15 Florida has had 15 Dallas has had 15 NYI have had 18 I think it's fair to say that Detroits drafting also sucks. It shouldn't exactly be the measuring stick organization anymore. Looking at the Canucks we are in company with only Detroit and Tampa for outright awful drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Chicago has had 20 LA has had 21 Pittsburgh has had 17 Boston has had 15 NYR have had 17 Wash has had 17 Edm has had 15 Florida has had 15 Dallas has had 15 NYI have had 18 I think it's fair to say that Detroits drafting also sucks. It shouldn't exactly be the measuring stick organization anymore. Looking at the Canucks we are in company with only Detroit and Tampa for outright awful drafting. Thanks for the effort. This means these teams have been 50% to 110% better than the Canucks. Lets hope things have improved under the new regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Holy smokes... That's a pretty awful turn out over 10 years... Atrocious really. Hopefully Benning knows what he is doing. I feel good about recent years draft though. Hopefully the majority will turn out. I wouldn't hold my breath. Benning's amateur scouting record is over-rated. Benning was the de-facto head of scouting of the Bruins from 2006 to 2014. Here's a list of the guys he scouted that have played in the NHL while with the Bruins: Tyler Seguin: 354 games (most his success coming after being traded); Dougie Hamilton: 178 games (now a Flame); Joe Colborne: 160 games (now a Flame); Jordan Caron: 159 games (and did not receive QO from the Avs, making him an UFA); Ryan Spooner: 56 games; Craig Cunningham: 53 games (now a Coyote); Dave Pastrnak: 46 games; Seth Griffith: 30 games; Zach Trotman: 29 games; Lane McDermid: 21 games; Zach Hamill: 20 games; Justin Florek: 4 games (and did not receive QO, making him an UFA); Alex Khokhlachev: 4 games; Malcolm Subban: 1 game. Not a lot of good picks, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It seems that this same post arises in one form or another several times a year. It gets kind of old after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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