Explain Your Reasoning

[DeltaSwede]

I am having a very difficult time understanding the negativity towards the moves that are being made by the Canucks and what fans actually want and are expecting them to do. I have seen a lot of critique but I haven't seen anyone really explaining what they want the Canucks to be doing.

The way I see it so far with the moves that have been made:

The Draft:

- Entered the day with 5 picks, made 7 selections

- Lack trade: He needed to be moved, wasn't the most sought after goalie, traded him out East, got an early 3rd rounder (basically a 2nd rounder), teams would have paid more if there was a demand for him

- Added Baertschi with one pick, he will most likely wear a Canucks uniform next season and is a 22 year old top 6 winger
- Added Dorsett with one pick, was crucial to the early development of Horvat and the 4th line

- The picks made seem so far to be good ones, a lot of potential of steals in the later rounds and Boeser is the real deal

Bieksa Trade:

- Moved a player that needed to be moved - CDC has hated and loved him since 2009, countless of times he got bashed
- Got fair market value for him, despite a NTC
- Pleasing deal for both the Canucks, Ducks and Bieksa

Kassian Trade:

- How many chances does he need?
- Failed to meet expectations under 3 coaches in Vancouver
- Canucks had to "pay" to get rid off him - no demand for apparently a "PWF with huge potential", teams should be flocking to get him if that was true
- Opens up an opportunity for Grenier/Virtanen to make the team
- Off-ice issues that are rumoured to be severe - you don't want that around your young players
- The Canucks have some of the most "gentlemanly" veterans in the league and not even they could turn him around

- Added Brandon Prust - one of those guys that is loved by his teammates, fights for every inch on the ice, is a consumate professional, is great on the PK, is tough and good on the forecheck, basically provides everything that people wanted out of Kassian minus the offensive capabilities that were questionable at best. Prust and Dorsett on either wing on the 4th line will make teams dread playing the Cancucks

Bartkowski Signing:
- Cheap deal

- 1 year deal, can see if he fits - if not trade him at the deadline

- Makes it easier for both Corrado and Clendening to get playing time but they need to EARN their playing time

Bachman Signing:

- Perfect fit for the situation

- Great starter for Utica, can be relied on if one of Miller or Marky get's injured

Gilman Firing:

- "Cap Genius" that has strapped the new management group with veterans that are difficult to move out due to NTC's and NMC's
- No other topic has been complained about more in the Gillis era on here than the NTC's that were being passed out like flyers
- He was Gillis guy, not Bennings same as Henning

- Was just as responsible off not supplying the best core the Canucks have ever had with the right pieces to win a cup

Crawford Firing:

- Terrible track record of getting our draft picks to the NHL

Sbisa Signing:

- Questionable cap hit

- Could be a bad contract

Hired Willie:

- Got a team that nobody expected to make the playoffs into the playoffs in his first year as Coach

- I still miss AV, but that's a different topic and not Bennings responsibility

2016 NHL Draft:

- Benning feels it is deeper and better - supported opinion by others
- Team is set up to be able to be big time sellers if they don't make the Playoffs (Vrbata, Hamhuis, Prust, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Miller(?)
- Expectations are not to make the Playoffs = Lottery pick
- Already have 3 picks in the top 60

My view:

The Canucks have made the best moves they can with the crippeling contracts handed out by Gilman and Gillis. They haven't over paid for injury prone UFAs. They aren't afraid to "rip the bandage off" on players that haven't worked out or need to depart unlike Gillis. Have successfully given their prospects a chance at EARNING roster spots without just giving it to them. Made sure that when these prospects earn their spots that they are surrounded by good mentors. They have not become a tank nation that any real hockey fan should ever support. Answered fans call off getting younger, and insulated these potential Canuck rookies with players that will take on more of the responsibility. Avoided the "bust scare" off having all the pressure on young players to get a team to win. Rookies will learn from some of the best professionals and people in the NHL.

[thejazz97]

We surround young guns with character vets, and then contend for a cup.

[BI3KSA-]

You know, I was just think how we didnt already have enough "to tank, or not to tank" threads.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I would have liked us to try and rebuild on the fly but it doesn't look like that will happen this season. With physical guys like Prust and Bartowski coming in, and no real offensive talent up front or on the blueline being added, I personally think the Canucks will SERIOUSLY struggle to score this season and end up in a Wild Card playoff position if they're lucky, or more probably around 9th or 10th in the West.

[cuporbust]

Pretty much what they are doing is what I'd like to see

[JC2]

I chose to go with surrounding younger players with vets with character. I think we need the young players to take on more prominent roles and have the vets be their support and I think this is where the team is heading in the long run. At the moment we still do not have the players to completely replace the vets but if we continue to give more spots to the young ones and let them earn their minutes then they will eventually become the leaders. Horvat is on the right track and I think this season we will see a few more emerge as well.

[Standing_Tall#37]

Last year was Sbisa's career worst year. I don't think he'll play as $&!#ty as what he did last year...but I guess anythings possible.

[Jack Fig]

I think things are going just fine, the only real problem here is that CDC has vastly-overvalued the Canucks' players and this is leading to backlash when they are getting dealt for less-than-great returns. There's been a few mistakes along the way (Miller contract), a few miscalculations (Sbisa-too much money, Dorsett-too much term), but nothing too worrisome so far.

I want to see youngsters with the right vets filling in around them, which I believe we're a year away from seeing in a legitimate way, but that's okay because I don't give a rat's ass about the playoffs this coming year. Benning's housekeeping of the roster and contract situations has been good so far, IMO. We just really need to see some kids stepping up at this year's camp.

[MJDDawg]

Good post.

I have no problems with the moves of the last week or so. My issues have been with the returns obtained from some of these moves. I'm generally not one of those CDC'rs that tends to overvalue all Canucks, but based on the returns from similar type players that were moved around the league, it sure feels like we didn't get full value and that management wanted to move the players at any cost.

I've been a proponent of rebuilding for three seasons now and believe that the process should have started after we lost to the Bruins in 2011. Due to a variety of factors, not the least of which were the NTC's handed out by Gillis, this team has done a horrible job of maximizing asset values.

But in saying all this, Trev and Benning are finally doing the dirty work that has needed to be done. I'm not analyzing any of the moves recently as anything other than small brush strokes on a large blank canvas that Trev and JB are just starting to paint. When you look at the beginning of the painting, it doesn't look like anything other than a bunch of random brush strokes, but after some time when you step back and look at it, you can start to see the makings of the finished canvas.

Personally I believe that the Canucks have a one-year window here to take advantage of being bad and getting some quality picks in another deep draft in 2016. Fans in this market are generally pretty smart and realize that there has to be massive changes on this team and that it probably will result in short term pain. If fans can see that the team is going in the right direction then I think management will be cut some slack.

Moves like the Kassian deal on the surface can confuse people and cause them to question the the overall direction but I'm going to assume that good hockey people like Trev and JB know what they're doing and are looking at an image of the finished painting in their minds as they start these first brush strokes. My only real concern is that the owners who commissioned the painting (Aquaman)put in place parameters that won't allow the painters to paint their best work.

Overall though, I'm pleased with the dirty work they're finally doing and am OK if this takes 3 plus seasons, as long as when I step back, I can see the big picture outline of what finished product might look like.

[Boudrias]

I am having a very difficult time understanding the negativity towards the moves that are being made by the Canucks and what fans actually want and are expecting them to do. I have seen a lot of critique but I haven't seen anyone really explaining what they want the Canucks to be doing.

The way I see it so far with the moves that have been made:

The Draft:

- Entered the day with 5 picks, made 7 selections

- Lack trade: He needed to be moved, wasn't the most sought after goalie, traded him out East, got an early 3rd rounder (basically a 2nd rounder), teams would have paid more if there was a demand for him

- Added Baertschi with one pick, he will most likely wear a Canucks uniform next season and is a 22 year old top 6 winger

- Added Dorsett with one pick, was crucial to the early development of Horvat and the 4th line

- The picks made seem so far to be good ones, a lot of potential of steals in the later rounds and Boeser is the real deal

Bieksa Trade:

- Moved a player that needed to be moved - CDC has hated and loved him since 2009, countless of times he got bashed

- Got fair market value for him, despite a NTC

- Pleasing deal for both the Canucks, Ducks and Bieksa

Kassian Trade:

- How many chances does he need?

- Failed to meet expectations under 3 coaches in Vancouver

- Canucks had to "pay" to get rid off him - no demand for apparently a "PWF with huge potential", teams should be flocking to get him if that was true

- Opens up an opportunity for Grenier/Virtanen to make the team

- Off-ice issues that are rumoured to be severe - you don't want that around your young players

- The Canucks have some of the most "gentlemanly" veterans in the league and not even they could turn him around

- Added Brandon Prust - one of those guys that is loved by his teammates, fights for every inch on the ice, is a consumate professional, is great on the PK, is tough and good on the forecheck, basically provides everything that people wanted out of Kassian minus the offensive capabilities that were questionable at best. Prust and Dorsett on either wing on the 4th line will make teams dread playing the Cancucks

Bartkowski Signing:

- Cheap deal

- 1 year deal, can see if he fits - if not trade him at the deadline

- Makes it easier for both Corrado and Clendening to get playing time but they need to EARN their playing time

Bachman Signing:

- Perfect fit for the situation

- Great starter for Utica, can be relied on if one of Miller or Marky get's injured

Gilman Firing:

- "Cap Genius" that has strapped the new management group with veterans that are difficult to move out due to NTC's and NMC's

- No other topic has been complained about more in the Gillis era on here than the NTC's that were being passed out like flyers

- He was Gillis guy, not Bennings same as Henning

- Was just as responsible off not supplying the best core the Canucks have ever had with the right pieces to win a cup

Crawford Firing:

- Terrible track record of getting our draft picks to the NHL

Sbisa Signing:

- Questionable cap hit

- Could be a bad contract

Hired Willie:

- Got a team that nobody expected to make the playoffs into the playoffs in his first year as Coach

- I still miss AV, but that's a different topic and not Bennings responsibility

2016 NHL Draft:

- Benning feels it is deeper and better - supported opinion by others

- Team is set up to be able to be big time sellers if they don't make the Playoffs (Vrbata, Hamhuis, Prust, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Miller(?)

- Expectations are not to make the Playoffs = Lottery pick

- Already have 3 picks in the top 60

My view:

The Canucks have made the best moves they can with the crippeling contracts handed out by Gilman and Gillis. They haven't over paid for injury prone UFAs. They aren't afraid to "rip the bandage off" on players that haven't worked out or need to depart unlike Gillis. Have successfully given their prospects a chance at EARNING roster spots without just giving it to them. Made sure that when these prospects earn their spots that they are surrounded by good mentors. They have not become a tank nation that any real hockey fan should ever support. Answered fans call off getting younger, and insulated these potential Canuck rookies with players that will take on more of the responsibility. Avoided the "bust scare" off having all the pressure on young players to get a team to win. Rookies will learn from some of the best professionals and people in the NHL.

Good comments!

Kassian comment would be that he appears to be more a play maker than a scorer. Putting him on the wing

with the Twins might not have been the best choice. I will be very interested to see him play with

Max Patch in Montreal. A trigger man for his setups. This comment is not a critic of Benning's deal. It

is all about judgements for both orgs.

[hatedkid666]

Re-shape

Re-shape

[Akillys]

How is Reshape the team logically removed from the rest of these answers?


You cant contend for the cup if you tank like buffalo... but you can certainly reshape the team and tank like buffalo.


Of course it has the most votes: regardless of what people actually think that answer will be correct; by replacing the players in a roster said roster is being reshaped. However, it was the most positive sounding options... It is worded like click bait.

If those were the multiple choice answers on an exam I'd be pissed.

[12-16-FG]

We really don't know the issue's surrounding players, such as Kassian. However, when push comes to shove, they all get pushed out. This re-build or restocking is a great tool for JB and Trevor, to get the team where they believe it needs to be. Kudos to them both for having the titanium balls to do it. When a business is failing you don't keep it afloat with duct tape, you need to dry dock it and fix it properly. If your a true Canucks fan, as I am, you will cheer for this team good or bad, win or lose. So long as there is a honest effort put forward every shift, period and, game.

[Madwolf]

I'm trusting Benning for now.

Not really show how you can love the "CAP master" when we have huge contracts, and more than just a few NTC that have been causing us issues for a few years now. Most of these issues occurred before Benning was even a thought, and like magic the same issues occurred with Benning here. He gets fired, and everyone is talking about how amazing he was and how this is all Benning's fault.

Everyone loves the guy that has been developing our players for the last 20 years, and is upset when he's fired, but we've been one of the worst teams in history at getting guys into the league the last 20 years. I think it's perfectly fine to get a change there.

I certainly wanted more from Eddie, but the market value went down with Talbot on the block, and Boston being absolutely stupid.

[Goal:thecup]

Keep up the good work TL and JB.

Maybe this year will be a year where we finish with a high draft pick and maybe (please) win the lottery.

And maybe this is a year after which we stockpile draft picks and load up the prospect pipeline.

And maybe the years after are the years we win The Cup.

I voted for Contend for the Cup in both categories because that is what it is always about.

They stated they wanted to try to be contenders and I am happy with that.

If that involves a temporary regression, so be it.

But planning to fail just for high draft picks is madness.

Do the best you can and make things better from there.

Use the Kankyo Kaizen method, that is, continuously improve every aspect of the Vancouver Canucks, until they are The Stanley Cup Champions.

Then, keep improving every aspect so that they remain champions.

[TyrEnkidu]

I would have liked us to try and rebuild on the fly but it doesn't look like that will happen this season. With physical guys like Prust and Bartowski coming in, and no real offensive talent up front or on the blueline being added, I personally think the Canucks will SERIOUSLY struggle to score this season and end up in a Wild Card playoff position if they're lucky, or more probably around 9th or 10th in the West.

With the toughness,determination and character that has already been added I dont agree with you at all...good room chemistry and a chance for some of our younger scorers to blossom will equal any loss of offence that you feel may have happened....I personally dont see any loss of offence when you consider that the top 6 forwards will now feel safer with the backing of toughness...something this team has lacked for many years....when you know they have your back you are bound to play harder and longer...and worse case scenario we have WAY better options come deadline day....team toughness makes up for a LOT of things and Canucks fans should know that better then anyone in this league

[{nhl}]

-Sbisa is a sack of potatoes

-Bartkowski is Sbisa v2

-Dorsett long term contract = highly unnecessary

-Lack didn't need to move. A 3rd for Lack is a very unfunny joke.

-Losing Kassian + 5th for basically nothing in return after prust leaves next year = highly unnecessary. Id rather stick with the 23 year old who if rehabbed to full recovery could be a huge asset the teams offence. The type of player that you need in the playoffs. That trade was straight up high potential for 1 year of 7min/game goonery

[puckdontlie]

As much as people wanted Gillis gone, a lot still have MG mentality..

They want to hold onto every somewhat popular player for as long as possible until they leave as free agents (rather than being traded for value) or they sign a long term, NTC deal which is difficult to move. The problem is we haven't seen a real GM in a long time... one that will acquire quality young players and isn't afraid to trade vets for value/cap space.

I was getting sick of the same old... I'm sure Gillis would have kept Richardson, Matthias, Stanton and Kassian and kept the team at the average level it's always been. I'm a lot happier knowing quality young players will step in to upgrade the total team talent and vets can get cashed out for value, not have a job for life just because they have a NTC. Next year with 5 expiring contracts and years after that we will be happy for the moves made this year.

[Madwolf]

As for my reasoning:

I think we're doing a rebuild, and we're preparing to be a player next year in the draft and in FA where we expect a deep draft and a strong FA market. If we poise ourselves to do well, which we seem to be doing, we can really fast-track the rebuild process.

I'm confident in the young guys we have coming up, and I really think Horvat is going to make himself invaluable this year.

[springer]

Combination of good veterans with youth coming in.

I'm particularly looking forward to Jake Virtanen and Cole Cassels making the line up. Cassels had a helluva season, and not only scores, but plays with an edge...

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=769674

Also noticed that Shawn Matthias hasn't gone anywhere yet with a UFA signing.

Wondering now if Benning has a offer on the table for him to reconsider...?