J.I.A.H.N Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I have from time to time, advocated selling off high end talent, but what really interests me and where Benning really has to be on his toes, which is in the bottom 6 forwards and bottom 4 defensemen. Benning has said if a prospect outplays a veteran, he will get the spot, but there are other factors that go into this decision. The factors include the prospects ceiling, the veterans forecasted down slide, whether the prospect can be sent down, whether saving the cap space is more beneficial to the club then loosing the veteran, whether the veteran has had a serious amount of injuries, team make up of size and speed, whether the veteran has real trade value, and whether the prospect or the veteran can clear wavers. And I am sure there is a lot more! Last year we seen Benning pull a great move by sending Markstrom down early. This year teams will watch Benning a lot closer......if Benning tries it again, don't be surprised to see the player picked up on wavers. The question is how does Benning get the most out of his contending prospects: Gaunce, Kenins, Corrado, Baetschi, Clendening, Vertanen, Subban and Grenier and how does he choose between them and Hansen, Higgins, Vey, Bartkowski, Weber and Burrows. Lean towards the Veterans if all other things are even at the start of the season, as there seems to be a glut of veterans on the UFA list, still looking for jobs....... Either way, if he can move the veteran or he can place the prospect down in Utica or Juniors, Benning will do it. Without making any hard moves, but a prospect pushes and he can't be waved....look for a trade or waiver wires transaction. These are the decisions that will make or break Benning The same thing goes for the top 6 and the top 4 dman........but that should not be a tough decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It seems that people are so eager for management to do something. But until we know what the prospects are like, the veterans will stay put. Until then, we just sit and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweathog Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It seems that people are so eager for management to do something. But until we know what the prospects are like, the veterans will stay put. Until then, we just sit and wait. Yep, I'm sure more moves will be made at training camp,depending on how the prospects perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaythedragon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 For now I think the veterans will stay where they are, but i think that we could see Clendening, and Corrado in our bottom D, along with Bartkowski. I rreally hope Benning makes a move when the TDL approcahes and moves a Vet to acquire an establlished young NHL player for short term to help out the team in reaching the playoffs; if there is any availability. However, things could change, come training camp. What I am worried about is that this year we dont have that many options if someone gets injured. Last year we had exrtra forwards who could fill in when someone was injured. Excited to see how this year goes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy11 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Honestly, I just really hope to see strides from Virtanen, Baertchi and Bo next year. Just some hope. Perhaps we can compete with Deadmonton and Calgary 2 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckdontlie Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Markstrom vs Miller Corrado vs Bartkowski Clendening vs Weber Baertschi vs Higgins Horvat vs Bonino Kenins vs Hansen Virtanen vs Prust/Vrbata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Impersonator Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Markstrom vs Miller Corrado vs Bartkowski Clendening vs Weber Baertschi vs Higgins Horvat vs Bonino Kenins vs Hansen Virtanen vs Prust/Vrbata That's pretty accurate. I'd like to see Jake at least get his 9 games in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 It seems that people are so eager for management to do something. But until we know what the prospects are like, the veterans will stay put. Until then, we just sit and wait. I agree. I think that we're set until they see what they have at camp after a good summers training. It will be interesting to see what strides various players do or don't make in the off season. I've said on other threads, I think that this year, we need to see Horvat, Baertschi, Vey, Corrado and Clendening solidify themselves as NHL regulars. There is the possibility that one other prospect sticks from a list of Kenins, Virtanen, Gaunce, Grenier etc Making the 23 man regular roster depends also on whether a player has to clear waivers or not. If a player can freely go up and down between the Canucks and Utica, then they are a candidate for a call up and won't be on the 23 man roster. Or whether a player has the interest of other teams. I'm thinking of Biega, at 27, he would have to clear but would he be claimed? Virtanen is a special case because like Horvat, it is either the Canucks or Juinior. He may get his 9 game trial but I wonder if he has the defensive game to make the jump. 2016-17 will be much more interesting than the coming year in this respect because there is a much longer list of players who will be ready for the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 veterans need to play to boost up trade value for the trade deadline. Playing higgins for example over a guy like kenins will be more beneficial if benning can recoup picks, and then roll with the young guys the rest of the way. in my opinion, our true core now sits like this, based on who I see Benning looking to trade and keep, and also my opinion.: Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Horvat, Miller, Dorsett. maybe add burrows in on there if benning wants to keep him around for mentoring, but everyone else is fair game i'd say. i'm not even going to mention the name that shall not be said that benning has a hard on for. nothing can make me include him in core players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canacks1970 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have from time to time, advocated selling off high end talent, but what really interests me and where Benning really has to be on his toes, which is in the bottom 6 forwards and bottom 4 defensemen. Benning has said if a prospect outplays a veteran, he will get the spot, but there are other factors that go into this decision. The factors include the prospects ceiling, the veterans forecasted down slide, whether the prospect can be sent down, whether saving the cap space is more beneficial to the club then loosing the veteran, whether the veteran has had a serious amount of injuries, team make up of size and speed, whether the veteran has real trade value, and whether the prospect or the veteran can clear wavers. And I am sure there is a lot more! Last year we seen Benning pull a great move by sending Markstrom down early. This year teams will watch Benning a lot closer......if Benning tries it again, don't be surprised to see the player picked up on wavers. The question is how does Benning get the most out of his contending prospects: Gaunce, Kenins, Corrado, Baetschi, Clendening, Vertanen, Subban and Grenier and how does he choose between them and Hansen, Higgins, Vey, Bartkowski, Weber and Burrows. Lean towards the Veterans if all other things are even at the start of the season, as there seems to be a glut of veterans on the UFA list, still looking for jobs....... Either way, if he can move the veteran or he can place the prospect down in Utica or Juniors, Benning will do it. Without making any hard moves, but a prospect pushes and he can't be waved....look for a trade or waiver wires transaction. These are the decisions that will make or break Benning The same thing goes for the top 6 and the top 4 dman........but that should not be a tough decision. I have from time to time been telling you Janis that Benning and Management have a plan in place like it or not. If a rookie comes into training camp and outworks one of the Vets,so be it .Benning has stated on many times that they will find a spot for him on the roster. It happens to other teams. What is so unusual about that Janis?Every team is allow 50 contracts and a 90 player reserve list. You can still send a player back to Jr or College without a contract and still be their property. Would you have been happy If we still had the Previous Management in which they kept the same core because they weren't going to ask any of his players to waive their NTC ?But yet you question about Benning ? You ask how does Benning going to get most out of these prospects and how is going to decide between a vet and a prospect. Every player Benning has drafted he has seen each player a fair amount of times before the draft in which he has stated. What impressed Linden the most about Benning was that he could tell him every players highlights and strength without looking at any of his notebooks. That also shows you Janis that Benning has put alot of time, effort, and doing his homework to scouting himself and not always rely on just his scouts. And yet you think that we have no blue chip prospects besides Demko. How much scouting have you done on each player that was drafted by Benning in the last two years Janis? Guys like Baertchi, Corrado can't be sent down to the minors and are pretty much a lock unless you want to to take a chance that you won't lose them to waivers. Benning Has won a cup with Boston as an assistant Gm . You can't tell me he wasn't involved with any decisions or hasn't learn anything in Boston do you. Every decisions is tough Janis. To the top of the line up to bottom 6 And yet you keep thinking its that easy. This team is getting old and change was needed, but you expect Benning to wave his magic wand in over a year without making any mistakes and turning this team into contenders for a cup just like that. Well it takes over 3-5 years . Good lord Janis why are you jumping on Benning so much??? It took Quinn taking over a crap team that was barely afloat a good 3 years just to make them compete and another two years to make them contenders for the cup. And the same could be said for Burke. And thats them taking over a team where they didn't have to deal with a salary cap or did they deal with a line up with players with NTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have from time to time been telling you Janis that Benning and Management have a plan in place like it or not. If a rookie comes into training camp and outworks one of the Vets,so be it .Benning has stated on many times that they will find a spot for him on the roster. It happens to other teams. What is so unusual about that Janis?Every team is allow 50 contracts and a 90 player reserve list. You can still send a player back to Jr or College without a contract and still be their property. Would you have been happy If we still had the Previous Management in which they kept the same core because they weren't going to ask any of his players to waive their NTC ?But yet you question about Benning ? You ask how does Benning going to get most out of these prospects and how is going to decide between a vet and a prospect. Every player Benning has drafted he has seen each player a fair amount of times before the draft in which he has stated. What impressed Linden the most about Benning was that he could tell him every players highlights and strength without looking at any of his notebooks. That also shows you Janis that Benning has put alot of time, effort, and doing his homework to scouting himself and not always rely on just his scouts. And yet you think that we have no blue chip prospects besides Demko. How much scouting have you done on each player that was drafted by Benning in the last two years Janis? Guys like Baertchi, Corrado can't be sent down to the minors and are pretty much a lock unless you want to to take a chance that you won't lose them to waivers. Benning Has won a cup with Boston as an assistant Gm . You can't tell me he wasn't involved with any decisions or hasn't learn anything in Boston do you. Every decisions is tough Janis. To the top of the line up to bottom 6 And yet you keep thinking its that easy. This team is getting old and change was needed, but you expect Benning to wave his magic wand in over a year without making any mistakes and turning this team into contenders for a cup just like that. Well it takes over 3-5 years . Good lord Janis why are you jumping on Benning so much??? It took Quinn taking over a crap team that was barely afloat a good 3 years just to make them compete and another two years to make them contenders for the cup. And the same could be said for Burke. And thats them taking over a team where they didn't have to deal with a salary cap or did they deal with a line up with players with NTC. I get what you're saying Canacks and agree for the most part. Not sure why you're going after Janis. Maybe for other posts? The OP is really talking about team building and how the tricky part is promoting the right prospects at the right time balanced against replacing the right veteran at the right time and remain competitive all the while. Most of this will be happening within the bottom 6 which is to be expected. Honestly, I think it's more important just to promote the right prospects. Obviously, not all of them will work out. Mistakes will be made, they always are but over all in 5 years like you say, they will replace the core and have a decent team. Hopefully a cup winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I agree. I think that we're set until they see what they have at camp after a good summers training. It will be interesting to see what strides various players do or don't make in the off season. I've said on other threads, I think that this year, we need to see Horvat, Baertschi, Vey, Corrado and Clendening solidify themselves as NHL regulars. There is the possibility that one other prospect sticks from a list of Kenins, Virtanen, Gaunce, Grenier etc Making the 23 man regular roster depends also on whether a player has to clear waivers or not. If a player can freely go up and down between the Canucks and Utica, then they are a candidate for a call up and won't be on the 23 man roster. Or whether a player has the interest of other teams. I'm thinking of Biega, at 27, he would have to clear but would he be claimed? Virtanen is a special case because like Horvat, it is either the Canucks or Juinior. He may get his 9 game trial but I wonder if he has the defensive game to make the jump. 2016-17 will be much more interesting than the coming year in this respect because there is a much longer list of players who will be ready for the NHL. Whether ppl see it or not, it's actually very exciting. The way Friesen and Grenier played really had my hopes up. Gaunce had a bounce back too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think the probability of Corrado and Clendening outplaying Weber and Bartowski is slim, and that says more about our pathetic defensive depth more than anything else. Weber belongs in the AHL, and Sbisa and Bartowski should be 7th defenceman on most teams, but on a thin Vancouver blueline they're in our bottom-3. We have an average top-3 and arguably the worst bottom 3 in the leauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canacks1970 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I get what you're saying Canacks and agree for the most part. Not sure why you're going after Janis. Maybe for other posts? The OP is really talking about team building and how the tricky part is promoting the right prospects at the right time balanced against replacing the right veteran at the right time and remain competitive all the while. Most of this will be happening within the bottom 6 which is to be expected. Honestly, I think it's more important just to promote the right prospects. Obviously, not all of them will work out. Mistakes will be made, they always are but over all in 5 years like you say, they will replace the core and have a decent team. Hopefully a cup winner. Yes for other posts like I meantion on this crabcakes. Every post that Janis has done has been negative and saying this team has no future bluechips and its all doom and gloom. Like I told Janis from previous Posts that it takes time to developed players and Management can't wave a magic wand in a year and boom were contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Markstrom vs Miller Corrado vs Bartkowski Clendening vs Weber Baertschi vs Higgins Horvat vs Bonino Kenins vs Hansen Virtanen vs Prust/Vrbata That's pretty accurate. I'd like to see Jake at least get his 9 games in. These young vs. old competition looks about right except for the last two. Kenins plays LW and Hansen plays RW. I do not really see the two of them in competition, And Hansen is not that old and is a better player than Kenins. Also, Kenins, at 24, in not that young either and is unlikely to show much more age-related improvement. I am not sure I understand Virtanen vs. Prust/Vrbata. Prust is a LW and is not likely to be in competition with Virtanen, who will play RW at the NHL level. And there is no way Virtanen will displace Vrby. There is a good chance Vrby will be traded at the deadline but, at that stage it will be too late to call up Jake from Junior. Also, while I am at it, Bartkowkski is likely to play LD and Corrado is likely to play RD, although either one could shift to his other side so they are in competition at some level. The other battles are things that will play out in camp and early in the season. I see Baertschi moving ahead of Higgins to play 2LW. That makes the LW depth chart Daniel, Baertschi, Higgins, Prust, Kenins. I think Bonino starts at 2C ahead of Horvat. That makes the center depth chart Henrik, Bonino, Horvat, Vey At RW the depth chart is Vrby, Burrows, Hansen, Dorsett. However, for the first 9 games I could see Jake playing and Dorsett moving to the left side ahead of Prust. But I think Virtanen goes back to Junior after that. He is not as complete a player as Horvat was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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