Jägermeister Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 IMO, the behaviour you describe is not normal thinking. This is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but to include "every single man in this thread" is stretching your opinion to include others. Plus, none of us, I expect, are rich and famous. There are a great many men as wealthy and young as Patrick Kane, who don't put themselves in this circumstance. They choose more discreet means. Hence my question: why is he taking such a risk, when (clearly) he can afford not to? I can safely say if we take out the people already in relationships, 90% of the men here would do the same thing if given the opportunity, and many of them already actively do so. Add fame and money into the equation and that would only increase the womanizing. On a related note, can it be Friday night already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I can safely say if we take out the people already in relationships, 90% of the men here would do the same thing, and many of them actively do so. Can it be Friday night already? I see your point, but we can do this, and still maintain our anonymity. Perhaps being rich and famous is akin to being in a relationship? We are easily recognized; hence the risk of negative results from our actions is immensely magnified. Why take that risk, when we can afford not too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized27 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 A great article on the situation: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/08/10/dicaro-how-not-to-talk-about-the-patick-kane-rape-allegations/ best quote: "...internet stupid abounds." Great article. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtpasc Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I am reading some replies in this thread and just shaking my head. It really scares me that some people think that being drunk excuses a person for engaging in sex without consent of their partner. Or even that there is a grey area there. If consent was not given it IS rape. I'm also disturbed by the idea that this woman was somehow at fault by "putting herself in a situation" where this could happen. The very idea that being in a person's home at a late hour after drinking at a bar is somehow asking to be raped is preposterous. A great article on the situation:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/08/10/dicaro-how-not-to-talk-about-the-patick-kane-rape-allegations/Really good article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Bold is what is wrong with the male psyche.... So if a woman goes to a man's house, or wears a short skirt, they should expect to be sexually assaulted? It should be common sense, especially in that situation. Dont stick your hand into a wasps nest and expect it not to get stung. Once again, not condoning rape whatsoever, but it's pretty obvious what the intentions of a young man are when he gets drunk and invites drunk women to his house. It's probably the worst situation a woman can put herself in if she doesn't want to be advanced upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Thats a really f'd up mentality. For all we know they wanted to see his mansion, hang out a bit, maybe check out some rare NHL stuff. Them coming to his house is in no way consent to sex, and is no way an excuse for him to rape or sexual assault them/her. I wasn't trying to say that if Kane did in fact rape that woman that it is alright, it is not. My point was that she should have realized that she was putting herself in a potentially dangerous situation, regardless of what he may or may not have told the woman to get her and her friend to come over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I am reading some replies in this thread and just shaking my head. It really scares me that some people think that being drunk excuses a person for engaging in sex without consent of their partner. Or even that there is a grey area there. If consent was not given it IS rape. I'm also disturbed by the idea that this woman was somehow at fault by "putting herself in a situation" where this could happen. The very idea that being in a person's home at a late hour after drinking at a bar is somehow asking to be raped is preposterous. Really good article Using excuses, like being drunk, for violent behaviour is a serious flaw in our legal system. We don't know Patrick Kane, and we don't know the woman. I think they both have the right to be believed, until the evidence is heard, even if their stories do not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 A great article on the situation: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/08/10/dicaro-how-not-to-talk-about-the-patick-kane-rape-allegations/ Most important quote in that article is: "each time you remind the world that Kane is innocent until proven guilty (which, by the way, he is), remind yourself that the alleged victim is also presumed to be honest until she’s shown to be otherwise. Fair is fair." It should be common sense, especially in that situation. Dont stick your hand into a wasps nest and expect it not to get stung. Once again, not condoning rape whatsoever, but it's pretty obvious what the intentions of a young man are when he gets drunk and invites drunk women to his house. It's probably the worst situation a woman can put herself in if she doesn't want to be advanced upon. Sounds exactly like when the defense is that she shouldn't have dressed that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It should be common sense, especially in that situation. Dont stick your hand into a wasps nest and expect it not to get stung. Once again, not condoning rape whatsoever, but it's pretty obvious what the intentions of a young man are when he gets drunk and invites drunk women to his house. It's probably the worst situation a woman can put herself in if she doesn't want to be advanced upon. What if the woman was slipped like a sleeping pill in her drink? I agree, the woman shouldn't have went to his house, but maybe they thought - c'mon man, this is Patrick Kane - he won't be a jerk to me - he's such a nice guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 What if the woman was slipped like a sleeping pill in her drink? I agree, the woman shouldn't have went to his house, but maybe they thought - c'mon man, this is Patrick Kane - he won't be a jerk to me - he's such a nice guy.... Why not? Why bother assuming intentions at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SN- Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I wasn't trying to say that if Kane did in fact rape that woman that it is alright, it is not. My point was that she should have realized that she was putting herself in a potentially dangerous situation, regardless of what he may or may not have told the woman to get her and her friend to come over. This is nothing more than victim blaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Most important quote in that article is: "each time you remind the world that Kane is innocent until proven guilty (which, by the way, he is), remind yourself that the alleged victim is also presumed to be honest until she’s shown to be otherwise. Fair is fair." Sounds exactly like when the defense is that she shouldn't have dressed that way I apologize. I probably shouldn't participate in this discussion because I am somewhat biased. I have a very good friend who had a genuinely false rape charge put upon him and I witnessed firsthand how that effected him. Fortunately nothing materialized from it. Regarding the bolded part, I was not suggesting that the woman in question asked to be raped, if she in fact was. My point was that it should be common sense to avoid a potentially dangerous or questionable situation. And one like the Kane case has dangerous written all over it if a woman doesn't want sexual advances made toward her. Maybe it isn't a fair comparable but none of us would travel through a neighborhood known for gangland violence and expect the locals to welcome us with cookies and happy greetings. Kane doesn't come off as the stereotypical "nice guy", so why would these women go to his mansion while drunk and expect that Kane wouldn't expect something in return from them? Just to reiterate, if Kane is guilty of rape then I hope they throw the book at him. However I do believe that some of the onus has to be put on the woman in question as well. If she was raped she willingly walked into the rapist's den. It's a foolish move to enter a stranger's home for anyone, especially under these particular circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NucksPatsFan Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I am reading some replies in this thread and just shaking my head.It really scares me that some people think that being drunk excuses a person for engaging in sex without consent of their partner. Or even that there is a grey area there. If consent was not given it IS rape. I'm also disturbed by the idea that this woman was somehow at fault by "putting herself in a situation" where this could happen. The very idea that being in a person's home at a late hour after drinking at a bar is somehow asking to be raped is preposterous. Really good article I was at a friend's birthday party once, it was a house party with people from my school and others not from my school. There was drinking involved and the party went pretty late. Anyways, I ended up hooking up with a girl in one of the upstairs bedrooms, and it was her who kept initiating it and tugging on my shirt and getting all close and personal. I didn't formally ask her if she gives me permission to hook up with her. Are you saying this was a rape incident? Not trying to victim shame the alleged victim here, but if what the bar owner is saying is true [that she had had a few drinks, was "hanging off of him all night" and followed him out the door when he left], then it's possible that she had lead him on into thinking she wanted it, and then waking up the next morning thinking what the hell happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 This is nothing more than victim blaming. In this case so far it is 'alleged victim' and I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Once again my point was that as adults we should be able to recognize a potentially volatile situation and avoid it. A drunk woman willingly going to a stranger's house is practically the dictionary definition of a bad idea. If Kane raped her then he should go to prison, but she should not have gone to his house in the first place because as adults we should be aware of the potential dangers of doing such things, just as we should realize the dangers of operating an automobile while drunk. Chances are you make it home no problem, but then there's that one time when things go sideways and a disaster happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 In this case so far it is 'alleged victim' and I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Once again my point was that as adults we should be able to recognize a potentially volatile situation and avoid it. A drunk woman willingly going to a stranger's house is practically the dictionary definition of a bad idea. If Kane raped her then he should go to prison, but she should not have gone to his house in the first place because as adults we should be aware of the potential dangers of doing such things, just as we should realize the dangers of operating an automobile while drunk. Chances are you make it home no problem, but then there's that one time when things go sideways and a disaster happens. She should be able to go wherever she wants whenever she wants whether she is drunk or not without the consequence being rape. This argument is complete BS and if this did happen its 100% not her fault for going over to his house. Give your head a shake man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 A drunk woman willingly going to a stranger's house is practically the dictionary definition of a bad idea. Gee, people make bad decisions when they're drunk? Just because she was drunk and made a bad decision according to you, doesn't change anything. Bad decisions shouldn't lead to being raped. This is how celebrities and sports figures get away with this stuff. How do you think Bill Cosby got away with it for so long? He was a celebrity, so women trusted him and felt safer around him than a complete stranger. But at this point there should be no blame assigned either way until al the facts come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtpasc Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 She should be able to go wherever she wants whenever she wants whether she is drunk or not without the consequence being rape. This argument is complete BS and if this did happen its 100% not her fault for going over to his house. Give your head a shake man. Absolutely %100 percent yes. In fact, even if she told him all night that they were going to have sex and that he took her home for that very purpose, If she changed her mind or if she was so intoxicated that she could not give consent it is a case of rape. If I, as a man was drinking at a bar with Patrick Kane and he invited me back to his place, I think I'd probably go. No one would question my judgment or my motives and if he raped me no one would claim that I was somehow to blame. This is a case of Male privilege and it is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 ... Not trying to victim shame the alleged victim here, but if what the bar owner is saying is true [that she had had a few drinks, was "hanging off of him all night" and followed him out the door when he left], then it's possible that she had lead him on into thinking she wanted it, and then waking up the next morning thinking what the hell happened. While it's hard to say without knowing her view and the actual facts if she had regret afterwards or never wanted it prior, what we do know is she immediately called for help after leaving and went to the hospital. She didn't pass out/fall asleep/go have brunch with her girlfriend then decide she didn't like what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtor Rod Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 There are a lot of parties to blame here. I will come back again to Kane's entourage. The famous people that I have worked with have people who take care of them and look out for their best interest. Someone was asleep at the wheel on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 There are a lot of parties to blame here. I will come back again to Kane's entourage. The famous people that I have worked with have people who take care of them and look out for their best interest. Someone was asleep at the wheel on this one. Not everyone with Money has assorted hangers on every minute of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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