Reports Patrick Kane is under police investigation.

[Jägermeister]

Except he is being investigated, so it's much more likely to turn into a mess. They are just being proactive.

Again, I'm not blaming them for doing it given the circumstances. I just think that the circumstances are ridiculous.

People see Kane was accused, immediately think he's guilty due to that, then companies involved with him have to drop him to avoid the PR mess. Even though Kane may not have even done anything wrong, he is already being punished due to misguided public opinion. And I find that ridiculous.

[wtpasc]

"Common sense" is something that is, by definition, common. If it is "common sense" to say, "No! You might be a rapist!" when a star athlete asks you to come back to his house then the same answer would be required regardless of gender. But it's not, is it? Just as it's not when you're asked to share a 2-bed hotel room with a coworker for a conference, or when you go to a house party and get so drunk you pass out. What is so often called "common sense" for women isn't common at all. It's gender specific. And whether you want to admit it or not, it is victim blaming.

When we tell women to use our "common sense" and alter how we dress and act, and where we go we are really saying that rape and sexual assault only happen because women did those things. We imply that women have the power to stop rape and sexual assault if only we would learn to control ourselves. We also tell sexists and misogynists that they are allowed to use threats and violence as a means of demeaning and controlling women, as a way of limiting women's freedom. We tell them that they can do whatever they want to women because it's really women's fault anyway for doing something or being somewhere she wasn't supposed to. We tell them that they alone have the right to exist safely in public spaces and private places while women should be forced to live in constant fear.

We see blatant examples of this in places like Egypt where a disgusting 97% of women say they've suffered street harassment. We see this in India, where street harassment and sexual assault are so common they're having to create women-only transportation to ensure women can still work and move around in the world at least some of the time in relative safety and even still women there are told they shouldn't go out alone, even in the daytime, and should never go out at night because if they do they're only inviting rape. We see it in places like Afghanistan, where misogynists in power say the restrictions they put on women are for their "own good", forcing women to literally cover themselves from head to toe and remain prisoners in their own homes, unable to leave without a close male relative escort and even still they live under the constant fear of rape to such a degree that some commit suicide whenever there's a change in local power because they know that women are treated as the "spoils of war", allowing them to be raped and even sold into prostitution. So, if the level of gender specific restriction those women are forced to endure isn't enough to stop rape why can't we finally admit that the problem was never with women's behavior at all? That blatant truth should be what we call "common sense."

But it's not. No, instead even here we tell women don't go out alone at night. Don't get drunk at a party. Don't wear anything too skimpy. Don't invite a guy back to your place or go back to his. Don't ever be alone with any man you aren't willing to have sex with. We blame the victim, telling her that it's her responsibility to ensure her safety from another person's actions. We pretend that if only women would protect ourselves that rape would stop happening. In short, we lie like the weak cowards we are, too afraid of change to ever face the truth.

But here's the thing, this "common sense" women need to display to avoid sexual assault isn't just hurting us. And it is hurting us. Greatly. But it's hurting men too. Every time a man genuinely trying to be nice offers a woman a ride home and she looks like she's thinking about it and then says, "No, thanks. I'll get the bus." and he knows it's because she's afraid of him, every time a man sees a woman on the street at night and she moves away from him out of fear even though he hasn't done anything to threaten her, every time a man invites a woman obviously into him back to his place for more conversation, drinks and maybe more if they both want it but but she pauses and then says, "No, I better go home." even though he's pretty sure she'd actually like to say yes, "common sense" is why.

See, the thing is women know that the overwhelming majority of men have not nor will ever commit rape. Most of you are not domestic abusers or threats of any kind. Most of you are just people, some good, some jerks, but most are not violent criminals. We know that. But here's the truth those of you promoting the "common sense" approach to women avoiding sexual assault need to realize: YOU told us to treat each and every one of you as if you were a rapist or a domestic abuser or murderer. In fact, you demanded it.

Every time you told a woman, "Don't go out at night by yourself, it's not safe!" you not only told her that the world belongs to men and women have no right to exist in it safely but that every man is a rapist or murderer merely waiting for the opportunity to strike. Every time you say, "How could you get into a car with a man you barely know? Don't you know what could have happened to you?!" you tell us that every man offering us a ride is a potential threat and that we are responsible for treating each and every one as such. Every time you ask women what they were wearing or how they were acting before they were harassed or assaulted you tell us that men are animals incapable of controlling your own behavior and becoming violent with the slightest provocation. When you tell women to use our "common sense" to avoid sexual assault you mandate women viewing men as nothing more than predators. You unfairly brand yourselves just as surely as you unduly burden us.

So, please, stop it! Stop telling women it's our responsibility to limit ourselves, to carefully follow this never ending list of "common sense" restrictions placed on women and girls alone in hopes of avoiding sexual assault. Start telling men rape, harassment, and domestic violence are not okay. Start telling men that it doesn't matter what women wear or say or do, that they are grownups responsible for their own actions. Start using your actual common sense and see that the real root of the problem is some men's behavior, not all women's.

Omg thank you yes. This %100 percent.

[-SN-]

Again, I'm not blaming them for doing it given the circumstances. I just think that the circumstances are ridiculous.

People see Kane was accused, immediately think he's guilty due to that, then companies involved with him have to drop him to avoid the PR mess. Even though Kane may not have even done anything wrong, he is already being punished due to misguided public opinion. And I find that ridiculous.

I don't feel they're caving or punishing him at all. They don't know how this will shake out, and as a company it would be irresponsible for them to essentially bet on the outcome being good. It's unfortunate but it's the only thing they can do.

[Jägermeister]

Not ridiculous at all.

He shouldn't have put himself in a situation like that.

Just like when I coached Ringette - I never put myself in a situation where I was the lone adult with the girls - I always made sure a female adult was with me.

I knew a coach that didn't do that.

He got accused of sexual harassment by 3 or 4 girls on a team he was coaching.

It affected him and his family greatly.

He was immediately dismissed as a coach.

After the investigation, one of the girls confessed that it was a joke because they didn't like him.

He never coached again.

So basically men or women shouldn't bring another person home due to the fear the invited might claim they were raped?

No 1 on 1 interactions anymore I guess, too risky of a situation.

Also, youre basically proving my poing with your story by the way. But I guess all of that is his fault because he was alone with them right?

[Jägermeister]

I don't feel they're caving or punishing him at all. They don't know how this will shake out, and as a company it would be irresponsible for them to essentially bet on the outcome being good. It's unfortunate but it's the only thing they can do.

The bolded is essentially what I'm saying. And that is the problem.

People seem to be missing that I already admitted that I do not blame EA for doing this given the circumstances.

[DeNiro]

Again, I'm not blaming them for doing it given the circumstances. I just think that the circumstances are ridiculous.

People see Kane was accused, immediately think he's guilty due to that, then companies involved with him have to drop him to avoid the PR mess. Even though Kane may not have even done anything wrong, he is already being punished due to misguided public opinion. And I find that ridiculous.

I don't think it's about guilt, I think it's about him being able to keep his commitment to do all the promotional activities that come with being on the cover.

I'm sure it's something he wouldn't even wanna do right now with this hanging over him. Something tells me the court of public opinion would not be kind to him.

[Heretic]

So basically men or women shouldn't bring another person home due to the fear the invited might claim they were raped?

No 1 on 1 interactions anymore I guess, too risky of a situation.

Sort of, it depends is the real answer - in this case, Kane, famous, multi millionaire, known for being in trouble...if innocent, put himself in a no win situation.

If guilty, I hope he's kicked out of the league as well as jail time.

But I guess all of that is his fault because he was alone with them right?

Correct.

[poetica]

It's not caving in this case tough. EA just considered what an absolute PR nightmare it would be if it does turn out he did it and made the smart business move.

Exactly. As far as I know there hasn't been any "PR campaign" against him nor anyone demanding he be removed from the project. Rather, this is a company distancing themselves from an athlete embroiled in an issue that could reflect badly on the brand. It is unfortunate and unfair because he hasn't been charged with a crime much less found guilty of one, but it's not "caving into public pressure." It's just business. And it happens all the time for any number of reasons.

That's why they call it "business" and not "fairness."

[Cerridwen]

"Common sense" is something that is, by definition, common. If it is "common sense" to say, "No! You might be a rapist!" when a star athlete asks you to come back to his house then the same answer would be required regardless of gender. But it's not, is it? Just as it's not when you're asked to share a 2-bed hotel room with a coworker for a conference, or when you go to a house party and get so drunk you pass out. What is so often called "common sense" for women isn't common at all. It's gender specific. And whether you want to admit it or not, it is victim blaming.

When we tell women to use our "common sense" and alter how we dress and act, and where we go we are really saying that rape and sexual assault only happen because women did those things. We imply that women have the power to stop rape and sexual assault if only we would learn to control ourselves. We also tell sexists and misogynists that they are allowed to use threats and violence as a means of demeaning and controlling women, as a way of limiting women's freedom. We tell them that they can do whatever they want to women because it's really women's fault anyway for doing something or being somewhere she wasn't supposed to. We tell them that they alone have the right to exist safely in public spaces and private places while women should be forced to live in constant fear.

We see blatant examples of this in places like Egypt where a disgusting 97% of women say they've suffered street harassment. We see this in India, where street harassment and sexual assault are so common they're having to create women-only transportation to ensure women can still work and move around in the world at least some of the time in relative safety and even still women there are told they shouldn't go out alone, even in the daytime, and should never go out at night because if they do they're only inviting rape. We see it in places like Afghanistan, where misogynists in power say the restrictions they put on women are for their "own good", forcing women to literally cover themselves from head to toe and remain prisoners in their own homes, unable to leave without a close male relative escort and even still they live under the constant fear of rape to such a degree that some commit suicide whenever there's a change in local power because they know that women are treated as the "spoils of war", allowing them to be raped and even sold into prostitution. So, if the level of gender specific restriction those women are forced to endure isn't enough to stop rape why can't we finally admit that the problem was never with women's behavior at all? That blatant truth should be what we call "common sense."

But it's not. No, instead even here we tell women don't go out alone at night. Don't get drunk at a party. Don't wear anything too skimpy. Don't invite a guy back to your place or go back to his. Don't ever be alone with any man you aren't willing to have sex with. We blame the victim, telling her that it's her responsibility to ensure her safety from another person's actions. We pretend that if only women would protect ourselves that rape would stop happening. In short, we lie like the weak cowards we are, too afraid of change to ever face the truth.

But here's the thing, this "common sense" women need to display to avoid sexual assault isn't just hurting us. And it is hurting us. Greatly. But it's hurting men too. Every time a man genuinely trying to be nice offers a woman a ride home and she looks like she's thinking about it and then says, "No, thanks. I'll get the bus." and he knows it's because she's afraid of him, every time a man sees a woman on the street at night and she moves away from him out of fear even though he hasn't done anything to threaten her, every time a man invites a woman obviously into him back to his place for more conversation, drinks and maybe more if they both want it but but she pauses and then says, "No, I better go home." even though he's pretty sure she'd actually like to say yes, "common sense" is why.

See, the thing is women know that the overwhelming majority of men have not nor will ever commit rape. Most of you are not domestic abusers or threats of any kind. Most of you are just people, some good, some jerks, but most are not violent criminals. We know that. But here's the truth those of you promoting the "common sense" approach to women avoiding sexual assault need to realize: YOU told us to treat each and every one of you as if you were a rapist or a domestic abuser or murderer. In fact, you demanded it.

Every time you told a woman, "Don't go out at night by yourself, it's not safe!" you not only told her that the world belongs to men and women have no right to exist in it safely but that every man is a rapist or murderer merely waiting for the opportunity to strike. Every time you say, "How could you get into a car with a man you barely know? Don't you know what could have happened to you?!" you tell us that every man offering us a ride is a potential threat and that we are responsible for treating each and every one as such. Every time you ask women what they were wearing or how they were acting before they were harassed or assaulted you tell us that men are animals incapable of controlling your own behavior and becoming violent with the slightest provocation. When you tell women to use our "common sense" to avoid sexual assault you mandate women viewing men as nothing more than predators. You unfairly brand yourselves just as surely as you unduly burden us.

So, please, stop it! Stop telling women it's our responsibility to limit ourselves, to carefully follow this never ending list of "common sense" restrictions placed on women and girls alone in hopes of avoiding sexual assault. Start telling men rape, harassment, and domestic violence are not okay. Start telling men that it doesn't matter what women wear or say or do, that they are grownups responsible for their own actions. Start using your actual common sense and see that the real root of the problem is some men's behavior, not all women's.

Thank you!

[poetica]

So basically men or women shouldn't bring another person home due to the fear the invited might claim they were raped?

No 1 on 1 interactions anymore I guess, too risky of a situation.

Also, youre basically proving my poing with your story by the way. But I guess all of that is his fault because he was alone with them right?

It's ridiculous, isn't it?!

I don't know what happened with Kane and the woman accusing him. None of us do and we can only hope that the police and courts (if necessary) find the truth and handle it appropriately under the law.

Here's what I do know: If a crime took place it is the fault of the person who committed it. If he raped her, it is his fault and not hers for going back to his place. If she made a false declaration to the police, it is her fault and not his for inviting her back to his place. We are talking about adults and we are all responsible for our own actions. People should be able to live their lives without assuming the risk of someone else's illegal or immoral behavior.

We have to stop blaming people for being victims, whether it's a (female or male) victim of a sexual assault or a (male or female) victim of an incredibly rare false allegation. Blame belongs solely to those who chose to do something wrong.

[thema]

It sure seems to me that some here are suggesting that while women shouldn't have to "limit themselves" in their behavior in order to reduce the likelihood of being the victim of a sexual assault men SHOULD be limiting themselves when interacting with women in order to minimize the chances of being accused of sexual assault especially in situations where they are the only man in the company of women. We live in a patriarchal world so I guess this is the price men pay for trying to treat women as real equals and as a man I'm OK with that; to me it's common sense especially considering that rape and sexual assault is almost always a crime committed by men against women. Having said that one wonders how this case might be played out in a Muslim country...

[tocnhockey]

It's ridiculous, isn't it?!

I don't know what happened with Kane and the woman accusing him. None of us do and we can only hope that the police and courts (if necessary) find the truth and handle it appropriately under the law.

Here's what I do know: If a crime took place it is the fault of the person who committed it. If he raped her, it is his fault and not hers for going back to his place. If she made a false declaration to the police, it is her fault and not his for inviting her back to his place. We are talking about adults and we are all responsible for our own actions. People should be able to live their lives without assuming the risk of someone else's illegal or immoral behavior.

We have to stop blaming people for being victims, whether it's a (female or male) victim of a sexual assault or a (male or female) victim of an incredibly rare false allegation. Blame belongs solely to those who chose to do something wrong.

Well said, Poetica....this and your other post!! +1

[BeefcakeBo]

Again, I'm not blaming them for doing it given the circumstances. I just think that the circumstances are ridiculous.

People see Kane was accused, immediately think he's guilty due to that, then companies involved with him have to drop him to avoid the PR mess. Even though Kane may not have even done anything wrong, he is already being punished due to misguided public opinion. And I find that ridiculous.

In this case though EA isn't dropping him because people think he is guilty. They are dropping him because if he turns out to be guilty then it will be a big mess.

[TimberWolf]

It's ridiculous, isn't it?!

I don't know what happened with Kane and the woman accusing him. None of us do and we can only hope that the police and courts (if necessary) find the truth and handle it appropriately under the law.

Here's what I do know: If a crime took place it is the fault of the person who committed it. If he raped her, it is his fault and not hers for going back to his place. If she made a false declaration to the police, it is her fault and not his for inviting her back to his place. We are talking about adults and we are all responsible for our own actions. People should be able to live their lives without assuming the risk of someone else's illegal or immoral behavior.

We have to stop blaming people for being victims, whether it's a (female or male) victim of a sexual assault or a (male or female) victim of an incredibly rare false allegation. Blame belongs solely to those who chose to do something wrong.

I agree with this and always hated the mentality. It should always be the criminals fault but we have passed the blame onto the victims as if they invited criminal activity.

While no where near as dire I believe you should be able to leave your car with the doors open, laptop on the backseat and the keys in the ignition and it's still the criminals fault if your car is stolen. Yes, we could take better precautions but that should never excuse or lessen the guilt of those that choose to victimize others.

In the case of rape in a culture of victim blaming and it's no wonder so many refuse to come forward.

[R3aL]

[elvis15]

It sure seems to me that some here are suggesting that while women shouldn't have to "limit themselves" in their behavior in order to reduce the likelihood of being the victim of a sexual assault men SHOULD be limiting themselves when interacting with women in order to minimize the chances of being accused of sexual assault especially in situations where they are the only man in the company of women. We live in a patriarchal world so I guess this is the price men pay for trying to treat women as real equals and as a man I'm OK with that; to me it's common sense especially considering that rape and sexual assault is almost always a crime committed by men against women. Having said that one wonders how this case might be played out in a Muslim country...

Well, while there is the reality of potentially putting yourself in a bad situation you aren't capable of getting out of (regardless of your gender), the real message is don't do illegal things and have respect for your fellow human beings.

[The Bookie]

[Jägermeister]

Correct.

So a man deserved to have something that "affected him and his family greatly" (your words), because he was simply alone with 4 girls, yet did absoultely nothing to them whatsoever.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

[Jägermeister]

It's ridiculous, isn't it?!

I don't know what happened with Kane and the woman accusing him. None of us do and we can only hope that the police and courts (if necessary) find the truth and handle it appropriately under the law.

Here's what I do know: If a crime took place it is the fault of the person who committed it. If he raped her, it is his fault and not hers for going back to his place. If she made a false declaration to the police, it is her fault and not his for inviting her back to his place. We are talking about adults and we are all responsible for our own actions. People should be able to live their lives without assuming the risk of someone else's illegal or immoral behavior.

We have to stop blaming people for being victims, whether it's a (female or male) victim of a sexual assault or a (male or female) victim of an incredibly rare false allegation. Blame belongs solely to those who chose to do something wrong.

Great post btw.

[Heretic]

So a man deserved to have something that "affected him and his family greatly" (your words), because he was simply alone with 4 girls, yet did absoultely nothing to them whatsoever.

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Where did I say he deserved it?

Apply the bold to thyself.