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3 hours ago, MisterOriginality said:

Just a thought, Utica doesn't play until friday. The Canucks play on Tuesday, would a one game audition really hurt?

It would burn a call up. I forgot that we still have Larsen up here or else I thought Subban might get a call. No ones going to get called up, or else you'd think they would have done it by now.

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15 goals on the year!

 

Needs to get an nhl look next year. Don't give me the he's too small excuse or he stinks defensively bs.

 

Larsen got a shot and he's soft af and stinks on d. Stecher is average on d and small too. Sbisa is a nightmare sometimes and I can't even explain Edler and his breakdowns. 

 

Subban deserves some nhl games next year. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jiggs50 said:

15 goals on the year!

 

Needs to get an nhl look next year. Don't give me the he's too small excuse or he stinks defensively bs.

 

Larsen got a shot and he's soft af and stinks on d. Stecher is average on d and small too. Sbisa is a nightmare sometimes and I can't even explain Edler and his breakdowns. 

 

Subban deserves some nhl games next year. 

 

 

Personally, I think Sbisa has been one our more reliable defenders this season.

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3 hours ago, Jiggs50 said:

15 goals on the year!

 

Needs to get an nhl look next year. Don't give me the he's too small excuse or he stinks defensively bs.

 

Larsen got a shot and he's soft af and stinks on d. Stecher is average on d and small too. Sbisa is a nightmare sometimes and I can't even explain Edler and his breakdowns. 

 

Subban deserves some nhl games next year. 

 

 

Subban is still a young prospect though, and a good one. Management is doing the right thing by taking their time to develop him properly. Larsen got a shot because people hoped he could be a PP specialist, he definitely wasn't and was poor in his own end as well. If your not at least competent at D then your not in the NHL, as Larsen has shown and he will not be back. Subban should get a game or two next year, to see that he truly needs to improve his defensive side of the game. Im hoping that Subban can be a huge part of our team going forward but if he develops into a Larsen in the future, then I don't want him.

 

Also I like how you called out Stetcher, a rookie, who's played huge minutes this year and acquitted himself well. Sbisa has shown major improvement and Edler is bored and needs to be traded(and I think he's ready for that)

 

Be patient with Subban and we could have an amazing player in a year or two.

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My opinion on Subban so far... I believe his offensive game will translate to the NHL level, he has that level of skill that will allow him to put up points anywhere he goes. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about his defensive game is that he's bad because of his size. It plays a factor, but the more concerning part of his defensive game is that his mistakes usually stem from things like bad giveaways or being out of position and not just from being outmuscled around the net. He's actually a pretty stocky guy despite his size and as long as he's in position he can hold his own physically. The Utica PP has struggled mightily this season and Subban's cannon from the point is by far their biggest weapon, one opposing teams make an effort to take away.

 

The problems he'll have to overcome are general awareness in his own zone; and being smart about rushing the puck. He has a great skating ability and can really drive the play but can sometimes forget he's the last guy back and make a bad choice to jump up in the play, which is one of the reasons Green took him off the first unit for a time (since he was running a four forward setup with Subban as the lone d-man). It resulted in more than a few plays where Subban would rush and cough up the puck and lead to a breakaway or odd-man rush the other way, and this has happened at even strength as well. He has a tendency to lose his man in the d-zone and can sometimes get carried away floating up near the points when he should be down near the net.

 

Thankfully, it hasn't happened very much recently and in the past few weeks he's shown a better well-rounded game with fewer hiccups, but its a small sample size and he'll need to prove it over a longer period. I think people need to be patient with Subban - he's only 22, in his second year of pro hockey, and defensemen (especially offensively minded ones) need longer to develop properly on both sides of the game. He has a fantastic shot and great offensive instincts and I see him getting some games in with the big club next season, and that'll become more likely if a d-man gets moved in the summer so there's one less player in front of him to leap over. McEneny has passed him on the depth chart but in turn, Subban has passed Andrey Pedan so I wouldn't say he's slipping either.

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On 2017-03-31 at 8:15 PM, Jiggs50 said:

15 goals on the year!

 

Needs to get an nhl look next year. Don't give me the he's too small excuse or he stinks defensively bs.

 

Larsen got a shot and he's soft af and stinks on d. Stecher is average on d and small too. Sbisa is a nightmare sometimes and I can't even explain Edler and his breakdowns. 

 

Subban deserves some nhl games next year. 

 

 

He will prob get a couple games next year. 

Not because he deserves a shot, but more just to shut up the fan base for good. 

 

Don't give you facts about major issues in his game?  Let me guess.  The stats say it all right?  

If 15 goals is so fantastic, why do all his coaches, Utica gm, Vancouver gm, all come out publicly and said his game isn't NHL worthy right now?

 

Larsen got his shot because they paid to get him, and needed to see if he was worth it. 

Stecher is small, but his d game is pretty solid. 

Sbisa has been one of our best d for a season and a half.  

 

The majority of your post post shows you have zero idea what you are talking about.  

 

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28 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

He will prob get a couple games next year. 

Not because he deserves a shot, but more just to shut up the fan base for good. 

 

Don't give you facts about major issues in his game?  Let me guess.  The stats say it all right?  

If 15 goals is so fantastic, why do all his coaches, Utica gm, Vancouver gm, all come out publicly and said his game isn't NHL worthy right now?

 

Larsen got his shot because they paid to get him, and needed to see if he was worth it. 

Stecher is small, but his d game is pretty solid. 

Sbisa has been one of our best d for a season and a half.  

 

The majority of your post post shows you have zero idea what you are talking about.  

 

4

I don't know if I agree with that

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Just now, ReggieBush said:

I don't know if I agree with that

Last half of last season, he was arguably our best.  There were a lot of injuries, but still.   

This year, other than a few garbage games, which everyone has, he has be pretty damn solid. 

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1 minute ago, drummerboy said:

Last half of last season, he was arguably our best.  There were a lot of injuries, but still.   

This year, other than a few garbage games, which everyone has, he has be pretty damn solid. 

 

He definitely has shown glimpses of strong play earlier this season, I will not disagree with that. But throughout his career, he has shown glimpses of being a potential top 4 physical dman but is not consistent at all. He is 27 years old and has played pro since he was 19 and is still making the same mistakes. He plays well for a couple games, then he gets complacent and has a stinker. To be brutally honest I do not trust him when he is on the ice (nor do I trust edler, larsen), not really what you want out of a defensive dman

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45 minutes ago, ReggieBush said:

He definitely has shown glimpses of strong play earlier this season, I will not disagree with that. But throughout his career, he has shown glimpses of being a potential top 4 physical dman but is not consistent at all. He is 27 years old and has played pro since he was 19 and is still making the same mistakes. He plays well for a couple games, then he gets complacent and has a stinker. To be brutally honest I do not trust him when he is on the ice (nor do I trust edler, larsen), not really what you want out of a defensive dman

I'm not talking about his career.  

Im taking about the point of time which I had mentioned.   

The last season and a half it would be hard to argue against that.  

He has been solid, physical and someone you need to win games.  

Sure.  Early in his career he struggles.  

Show me one player who didn't.  

Its a silly argument really. 

He has stepped up and become a huge part of our d. 

 

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2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

He will prob get a couple games next year. 

Not because he deserves a shot, but more just to shut up the fan base for good. 

 

Don't give you facts about major issues in his game?  Let me guess.  The stats say it all right?  

If 15 goals is so fantastic, why do all his coaches, Utica gm, Vancouver gm, all come out publicly and said his game isn't NHL worthy right now?

 

Larsen got his shot because they paid to get him, and needed to see if he was worth it. 

Stecher is small, but his d game is pretty solid. 

Sbisa has been one of our best d for a season and a half.  

 

The majority of your post post shows you have zero idea what you are talking about.  

 

He's a solid offensive dman. Our pp stinks. Ever since Salo, we've needed a rhd shot pp dman. So why not give him a shot? 

 

Minus 3 today for Stecher. -10 overall. He's average at best defensively. Regardless that's not what the argument was about. 

 

Subban deserves a chance based on his offensive tools. Nothing wrong in saying that. 

 

But hey sorry Sekeres. Maybe you just know more than everyone else. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jiggs50 said:

He's a solid offensive dman. Our pp stinks. Ever since Salo, we've needed a rhd shot pp dman. So why not give him a shot? 

 

Minus 3 today for Stecher. -10 overall. He's average at best defensively. Regardless that's not what the argument was about. 

 

Subban deserves a chance based on his offensive tools. Nothing wrong in saying that. 

 

But hey sorry Sekeres. Maybe you just know more than everyone else. 

And his average at best defensively is in the NHL and still better comparatively to Subban's not that great defensively in the AHL. That's what the argument is about, regardless of how good Subban is offensively. He's not going to get a shot just because.

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2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

I'm not talking about his career.  

Im taking about the point of time which I had mentioned.   

The last season and a half it would be hard to argue against that.  

He has been solid, physical and someone you need to win games.  

Sure.  Early in his career he struggles.  

Show me one player who didn't.  

Its a silly argument really. 

He has stepped up and become a huge part of our d. 

 

 

What I said is that he is still making the same mistakes that he made when he was 19. On a consistent basis. 

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1 hour ago, Jiggs50 said:

 

Minus 3 today for Stecher. -10 overall. He's average at best defensively. 

 

If you want to make a case for Subban, which I don't agree or disagree with, pointing out a 'cherry picked' stat like +/- isn't making your argument any better imo unfortunately, as Tryamkin,  Quads,  Edler,  Hutton,  Larsen and Bulldog are all minuses also. 

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58 minutes ago, ReggieBush said:

What I said is that he is still making the same mistakes that he made when he was 19. On a consistent basis. 

That may be, but those mistakes are consistently much further apart than they were a couple of years ago. He is clearly a much more reliable player than he was when he first came to Vancouver. Not sure which Sbisa you have been watching if you don't see that. Why do you think only the most hardcore of the Canuck haters are still complaining about his salary this year?

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2 hours ago, elvis15 said:

And his average at best defensively is in the NHL and still better comparatively to Subban's not that great defensively in the AHL. That's what the argument is about, regardless of how good Subban is offensively. He's not going to get a shot just because.

But Larsen got a shot for that exact reason and he was terrible. 

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Looking into Subban a bit more and his PP contributions for the Comets and how he could help the Canucks.

He's gotten a point on 10 of Utica's 38 power play goals this year. If they didn't score any of those goals without him it would account for a 3.3% difference in PP%. Assuming he can translate his powerplay scoring to the NHL, having him on the PP would improve the Canucks PP to 17.1% and he would be in on an additional 7 powerplay goals, pushing the Canucks totals to 37.

In order for him to be a positive goal differential player he would then need to finish the season better than -7. Also not getting crushed in shot attempt differentials would be good too. Definitely a possibility in my opinion based on his skill and speed, if he's playing 10-12 mins of 5v5 and 2 mins on PP hopefully.

The thing that can't be measured as accurately, but is something this coaching staff talks about a lot is momentum. When we have a powerplay we need to create momentum, and not let the other team generate momentum in the opposite direction. If our power play immediately becomes more dangerous with Subban on it and we are able to generate momentum even without scoring, then the goals we score shortly after the PP could also be attributed to his impact.

I think this is getting overlooked by management right now. Having a PP specialist on the Blueline with a legit right hand shot makes every player on the PP better because of the space it opens up. The structure of the penalty killers will have to adjust a bit more to Subban's shot and mobility on the line.

Look at the top powerplay with Boeser, it actually looks like there is a threat to score most of the time. That didn't happen a lot this year. The Canucks only have scored 30 powerplay goals. To have a chance at the playoffs we would need to score at least 40 PPG, and have a conversion rate over 17%.


Between the 2013/14 season and now the Canucks have the fewest Power Play goals in the NHL 153, and our conversion rate is second worst at 15.9%. If management is right and power plays not only generate goals, but also momentum that leads to goals, this should be there #1 area to address.

Luckily we have Subban to start helping this next year. (Hopefully)

 

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13 minutes ago, Derp... said:

Looking into Subban a bit more and his PP contributions for the Comets and how he could help the Canucks.

He's gotten a point on 10 of Utica's 38 power play goals this year. If they didn't score any of those goals without him it would account for a 3.3% difference in PP%. Assuming he can translate his powerplay scoring to the NHL, having him on the PP would improve the Canucks PP to 17.1% and he would be in on an additional 7 powerplay goals, pushing the Canucks totals to 37.

In order for him to be a positive goal differential player he would then need to finish the season better than -7. Also not getting crushed in shot attempt differentials would be good too. Definitely a possibility in my opinion based on his skill and speed, if he's playing 10-12 mins of 5v5 and 2 mins on PP hopefully.

The thing that can't be measured as accurately, but is something this coaching staff talks about a lot is momentum. When we have a powerplay we need to create momentum, and not let the other team generate momentum in the opposite direction. If our power play immediately becomes more dangerous with Subban on it and we are able to generate momentum even without scoring, then the goals we score shortly after the PP could also be attributed to his impact.

I think this is getting overlooked by management right now. Having a PP specialist on the Blueline with a legit right hand shot makes every player on the PP better because of the space it opens up. The structure of the penalty killers will have to adjust a bit more to Subban's shot and mobility on the line.

Look at the top powerplay with Boeser, it actually looks like there is a threat to score most of the time. That didn't happen a lot this year. The Canucks only have scored 30 powerplay goals. To have a chance at the playoffs we would need to score at least 40 PPG, and have a conversion rate over 17%.


Between the 2013/14 season and now the Canucks have the fewest Power Play goals in the NHL 153, and our conversion rate is second worst at 15.9%. If management is right and power plays not only generate goals, but also momentum that leads to goals, this should be there #1 area to address.

Luckily we have Subban to start helping this next year. (Hopefully)

 

One thing to consider before assuming that Jordan Subban is the cure for the Canucks power play ills is that even though Subban has a good percentage of his points on the power play the Comets have one of the worst power plays in the AHL at 15.9% and ranked 23rd in the league.  Green also took him off the first PP unit and replaced him with McEneny because Evan is much more reliable with the puck and doesn't cause as many short handed attempts back in the Comets end.  The Comets have given up 11 shorties this year which is the 5th worse in the league.  

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11 hours ago, drummerboy said:

Last half of last season, he was arguably our best.  There were a lot of injuries, but still.   

This year, other than a few garbage games, which everyone has, he has be pretty damn solid. 

Solid relative to what we're accustomed to seeing, not sold according to NHL standards. He's a fringe player lucky enough to be on a rebuilding team.

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