Jordan Subban | D

[Scruffy05]

13 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

As a D-man, sure, he does not have the physicality. The physical requirements of both positions are SO different. When my son was playing Rep hockey and trying out for Team BC, it was obvious. And sure enough, when the lineups for Team BC was revealed, the average height of D-men was about 3 inches higher than of the forwards and the average weight was well over 10 pounds heavier. 

The point that has been made a lot in this thread is that because of Jordan's lack of stature, his path to being an NHL D-man seems to be blocked. Our management and his current coach keeps mentioning his lack of stature even after years in the organization. The kid oozes offensive potential (great shot, great skating, amazing stickhandling). It's not like it would be the first time that a D-man would be asked to try playing forward to help out. Rome has done it and more recently, Biega has done it. In both cases, the results have been passable. What's the realistic and best way for this talent to help the Canucks?

I think when drafted everybody hoped he would have a PK-esque growth spurt.

[Scruffy05]

1 minute ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

First of all, I believe we're on the same page here - we want to see Jordan succeed and at the same time, help the Canucks. So let us keep that in mind when we respond. We just differ on what the realistic path is.

1st - you fail to mention what Subban's skills are. It's in the offense. Watch him play and check his instincts - he has a lot of the forward instincts - the way, he carries the puck, the way he wants to stickhandle past defenders (even when risky), his wrist shots. It translates. 

2nd - until he plays as a forward, you don't know where he'll be in the depth chart. I don't expect him to make the club in his first year, but what I expect him to do is show what the Canucks really need - skating, creativity with the puck, and good shots.

3rd - He was an All-Star already. The Canucks weren't playing for the playoffs. The Canucks had injuries. And yet, they refused to send him up? After a few year with the organization, the Canucks management and coaches still keep talking about him being of a smaller size. That sounds a lot like the sticking point to me.

4th - you seriously underestimate what Stecher brings - his hockey IQ's off the charts. Not sure if you watched him live in pre-season, but I did. He was amazingly noticeable. He was our best D-man, and it wasn't close. If it was a Rep tryout, he would have made first team easily. He could see plays before they developed. He could see the above view of everyone on the ice (which is something that is hard to do when you're on the ice). I used to think that hockey IQ is a thing that you could work on. But then I spent some time talking to coaches (some of whom have played in the NHL), and they strongly implied that while fundamentals and habits can be taught, hockey IQ is something that's inherent in the person.

I think they refused to send him up (and the reason the last callup was from the ECHL and not NHL) because Utica is in a dogfight and desperately needs Jordan. I think the Canucks were trying to do right by Utica near the end of the season. They still called up Bachman over other options though because there was no sense taking a young goalie before he is ready and letting him get shelled at the NHL.

 

There are many competing needs and desires.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

5 minutes ago, Scruffy05 said:

I think they refused to send him up (and the reason the last callup was from the ECHL and not NHL) because Utica is in a dogfight and desperately needs Jordan. I think the Canucks were trying to do right by Utica near the end of the season. They still called up Bachman over other options though because there was no sense taking a young goalie before he is ready and letting him get shelled at the NHL.

 

There are many competing needs and desires.

I also wish that that's what the reason is of why he wasn't brought up, but that doesn't seem to be what management is saying in the interviews... That's why I think his chances of making it as a D-man with the Canucks is very low. So why not try him at forward?

[JohnTavares]

All these posters are talking like we are a 110 point president's trophy winning team. We are a developmental team that should be giving opportunities for players to develop. 29th place team with the 29th best PP is refusing to play someone who could help their PP in Subban. It has less to do with Larsen and more to do with the current Canucks state. This refusal to play Subban is comparable to Shinkaruk.

 

But players gotta earn ice time right? Like Vey, Megna, Chaput, Sutter, and even guys like Molino and Boeser (haven't played any pro hockey, yet gets gifted playing time).

 

People saying that Subban's confidence will get shot if he plays a bad game here and there in the NHL - y'all don't understand pro sports. If he is that mentally fragile then it gives the Canucks an even clearer picture on Jordan.

 

29th placed team with 29th ranked powerplay refuses to give Jordan Subban, an offensive defenseman who can run the point, one game to see where he's at - despite icing possible worse players over the last couple years (Pedan, Larsen, Bartowski, Weber).

 

Give your head a shake, AHL All-Star doesnt deserve one game in the NHL? Keep letting the media feed you non-sense.

[RetroCanuck]

8 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

First of all, I believe we're on the same page here - we want to see Jordan succeed and at the same time, help the Canucks. So let us keep that in mind when we respond. We just differ on what the realistic path is.

1st - you fail to mention what Subban's skills are. It's in the offense. Watch him play and check his instincts - he has a lot of the forward instincts - the way, he carries the puck, the way he wants to stickhandle past defenders (even when risky), his wrist shots. It translates. 

2nd - until he plays as a forward, you don't know where he'll be in the depth chart. I don't expect him to make the club in his first year, but what I expect him to do is show what the Canucks really need - skating, creativity with the puck, and good shots.

3rd - He was an All-Star already. The Canucks weren't playing for the playoffs. The Canucks had injuries. And yet, they refused to send him up? After a few year with the organization, the Canucks management and coaches still keep talking about him being of a smaller size. That sounds a lot like the sticking point to me.

4th - you seriously underestimate what Stecher brings - his hockey IQ's off the charts. Not sure if you watched him live in pre-season, but I did. He was amazingly noticeable. He was our best D-man, and it wasn't close. If it was a Rep tryout, he would have made first team easily. He could see plays before they developed. He could see the above view of everyone on the ice (which is something that is hard to do when you're on the ice). I used to think that hockey IQ is a thing that you could work on. But then I spent some time talking to coaches (some of whom have played in the NHL), and they strongly implied that while fundamentals and habits can be taught, hockey IQ is something that's inherent in the person.

This will be my last message as I feel anything else at this point would be redundant. First I don't underestimate what Stetcher brings, I honestly think he was one of best defenseman this year and don't think I said otherwise. Subbans skill are offensive in that he can quarterback a powerplay, has a nice shot and good pass. He's also quite a good skater. But switching positions is never easy and the value in Subban developing into a RD far outweighs what he could do as a winger. Subban could easily make the club at the end of next year and stick in 2018-19season as a RD but he won't fit as a winger. We have lots of those, basically a surplus. Let young prospects develop at their positions and prove they can make the team. Subban has all the parts, just needs more time to put them together and make himself a complete piece.

[D.B Cooper]

1 hour ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

You didn't read the comment fully. It didn't tell you that Biega looked better than some of our forwards?

Sure I did. 

We had a beat up line up with a handful of garbage thrown in there.  

Also, no he didn't.  

He made a couple hits and played with some energy.    That's about it. 

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

1st - you fail to mention what Subban's skills are. It's in the offense.

Don't know of anyone who ignores that.

 

Quote

3rd - He was an All-Star already.

Bo-Sang.

 

Jordan trains hard with weights and seems to have decent strength, but according to UticaHockey he's not using it to be effective.  Maybe he needs to work more on leverage and positioning, something that other small guys like Stecher have figured out.

[UticaHockey]

6 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Utica I assume you've seen more AHL hockey than most of us here. Has Subban improved his defensive play since the start of the year? 

Slow steady improvement in his decision making with the puck and his overall defensive positioning but he is not there yet.  He still has another year left in his ELC and should continue to develop.  He needs to improve in puck battles enough where it is not a glaring deficiency and improve his gap control.  He still get walked wide far too often for someone with his skating ability.   

[Scruffy05]

9 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

Slow steady improvement in his decision making with the puck and his overall defensive positioning but he is not there yet.  He still has another year left in his ELC and should continue to develop.  He needs to improve in puck battles enough where it is not a glaring deficiency and improve his gap control.  He still get walked wide far too often for someone with his skating ability.   

We have 3 more years before we have to worry about him going group VI UFA, right?

[UticaHockey]

 

[hanzolo]

Really hoping we give Subban a chance and that he takes it and goes nuts in the NHL. Losing Tryamkin is going to hurt, and the emergence of our D prospects such as Juolevi and Subban is vital.

[Ronaldoescobar]

4 hours ago, hanzolo said:

Really hoping we give Subban a chance and that he takes it and goes nuts in the NHL. Losing Tryamkin is going to hurt, and the emergence of our D prospects such as Juolevi and Subban is vital.

I don't think Subban will ever play in the NHL for Vancouver. As soon as the nucks get any offer of value for him he is gone.

[hobart16]

Subban took another step forward this year for sure.  Unless he takes a huge step forward in the d end, anticipate another year of seasoning, hopefully with a couple of call ups,  and he will be ready to challenge for a spot in training camp in 2018.  His passing is sometimes suspect and should be better given his overall skill level, and given his size he needs to get his body into and under people a little earlier than other defenseman the way Stecher often does.  Don't write him off yet.    

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, hobart16 said:

Subban took another step forward this year for sure.  Unless he takes a huge step forward in the d end, anticipate another year of seasoning, hopefully with a couple of call ups,  and he will be ready to challenge for a spot in training camp in 2018.  His passing is sometimes suspect and should be better given his overall skill level, and given his size he needs to get his body into and under people a little earlier than other defenseman the way Stecher often does.  Don't write him off yet.    

It is a joke to see the expectations that many fans have over a undersized 2 year pro. I do not mention size in a derogatory way. A smaller d-man has to learn how to play his game dealing with big body forwards. I do expect Subban will get a look next year. If Green is the coach he will have a very good idea of how to play Subban.

[hobart16]

Yeah I don't get it either.  Subban deserved his AHL All Star designation this year.  If we didn't have him we would have been in even bigger trouble in the goal scoring department.  He had a good season and people should be encouraged.  He isn't going to the KHL that is for sure 

[-AJ-]

A highlight reel came out today. He definitely has offensive skills and awareness that seem to be NHL calibre. If he can ever get the complete game going, he could be a gem.

 

 

[Horvats_Big_Head]

I have a feeling that Travis Green is definitely not a racist and will judge Subban based on the content of his character as well as his hockey abilities. If he can improve he could make the roster as a 7th dman. 

[Chronic.Canuck]

39 minutes ago, Horvats_Big_Head said:

I have a feeling that Travis Green is definitely not a racist and will judge Subban based on the content of his character as well as his hockey abilities. If he can improve he could make the roster as a 7th dman. 

The fact that you even have to bring up racism is insulting. These are professional coaches and athletes and they did not get to where they are based on their race, but their merit.

 

The reason Subban hasn't played in the NHL yet is because he still has much to learn defensively despite his offensive gifts. It also turns out he's still quite young, improving every year, and our team can afford to give him the time to find out if he's really the player we want him to be.

 

TLDR: you earned my minus today

[TheHitman]

Looking at what PK did today and the potential of Jordan doing that one day is crazy but doable. 

[Derp...]

He'll probably get some NHL games this year which is the best we can ask for. It's up to him to improve though this summer, and show that he's ready to take the next step.

Once he's in the lineup he needs to make sure he can stay in it just like Stecher.

However, I don't think Green will be pairing him with Edler in training camp.