Investing in the stock market - Discussion

[I.Am.Ironman]

Nano One Materials has been on a tear the last few days.. Anybody else in that stock? I bought in at 0.58 & 0.71 and am curious what anybody else think of this recent spike. I am hesitant to attempt the short as it has jumped to $1.20 from ~0.75 just this week.

 

For those that don't know they are a Vancouver based company that produces and sells components to high performance Lithium ion batteries for electric cars, solar panels etc. One of their customers is Tesla.

[NucksPatsFan]

Big day for Aphria today with quarter earnings have risen 106%.

 

Sold half my shares for a $800 profit ... will buy back in if it dips again over the next month, or will sell the other half it somehow jumps to $7/share or higher.

[NucksPatsFan]

Ayyyy Aphria

[Vanisleryan]

I love Aphria, not just an investor also a customer. I bought back in this morning at 5.94. Also bought back into WEED at 8.03. I wasn't expecting these to bounce back till August or September but they are looking bullish.

[Hortankin]

How much $ would I have to invest to make a comfortable amount of $ off of dividents?

 

I'm really new to the investing game and trying to learn as much as I can before I start. 

 

I like the idea of penny stocks because I'm really not working with much money and I think hitting on a penny stock is worth a gamble. I know penny stocks are a risky buisness from what I hear but I also feel like there's not enough potential in blue chip stocks to double or triple my investment. So that's why I thought I'd ask for some opinions on the dividents these stocks pay out.

[nuckin_futz]

17 minutes ago, Hortankin said:

How much $ would I have to invest to make a comfortable amount of $ off of dividents?

 

I'm really new to the investing game and trying to learn as much as I can before I start. 

 

I like the idea of penny stocks because I'm really not working with much money and I think hitting on a penny stock is worth a gamble. I know penny stocks are a risky buisness from what I hear but I also feel like there's not enough potential in blue chip stocks to double or triple my investment. So that's why I thought I'd ask for some opinions on the dividents these stocks pay out.

I'll assume you mean dividend as I have no idea what a "divident" is.

 

The current dividend yield on the S&P (the blue chips you speak of) is 1.91%. Let's say you consider $25,000 a year a comfortable amount to make off dividends. You'd need to invest $1,300,000 in the S&P to generate that yearly.

Edited July 20, 2017 by nuckin_futz

[Hortankin]

31 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

I'll assume you mean dividend as I have no idea what a "divident" is.

 

The current dividend yield on the S&P (the blue chips you speak of) is 1.91%. Let's say you consider $25,000 a year a comfortable amount to make off dividends. You'd need to invest $1,300,000 in the S&P to generate that yearly.

That is crazy haha.. I'm working with under $1000.. I'm debating between penny stocks and cryptocurrency now that you cleared that up for me lol..

 

Couple stocks I've been looking at are Canopy Growth, IRobot (not even close to a penny stock), and Twitter. 

 

Cryptocurrencies I've been looking into is bitcoin (seems too high right now), etherum, and eos.

 

Any thoughts on these choices? 

 

[nuckin_futz]

18 minutes ago, Hortankin said:

That is crazy haha.. I'm working with under $1000.. I'm debating between penny stocks and cryptocurrency now that you cleared that up for me lol..

 

Couple stocks I've been looking at are Canopy Growth, IRobot (not even close to a penny stock), and Twitter. 

 

Cryptocurrencies I've been looking into is bitcoin (seems too high right now), etherum, and eos.

 

Any thoughts on these choices? 

 

No thoughts on Canopy. Twitter is an interesting platform but an absolute disaster of a company. You're not going to fulfill your goals in IRBT.

 

If you're looking to gamble and try to hit a home run then your best bet (of your choices) are penny stocks or some crappy little crypto. Then hope for a miracle.

 

You might be better off in Vegas if excitement and a possible windfall is what you're looking for.

 

Either way I wish you good luck in the markets.

[Hortankin]

19 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

No thoughts on Canopy. Twitter is an interesting platform but an absolute disaster of a company. You're not going to fulfill your goals in IRBT.

 

If you're looking to gamble and try to hit a home run then your best bet (of your choices) are penny stocks or some crappy little crypto. Then hope for a miracle.

 

You might be better off in Vegas if excitement and a possible windfall is what you're looking for.

 

Either way I wish you good luck in the markets.

I've been really into card counting lately, trying to get a team going for in about 5 years when I come up with enough money to go hard at it.. it's crazy how good card counting works. Only thing that makes it difficult is forming a good enough team to keep the heat off of your betting..

 

The way bitcoin took off give me high hopes in the cryptocurrency and I think Etherum has that same potential and is only at a little over $200 right now. EOS from what I've read is only $1.21 and is apparently a better version of etherum.. kind of want to buy atleast 5 coins in each (even the really unknown ones) and hope for a few to really take off when it becomes mainstream

[nuckin_futz]

1 hour ago, Hortankin said:

I've been really into card counting lately, trying to get a team going for in about 5 years when I come up with enough money to go hard at it.. it's crazy how good card counting works. Only thing that makes it difficult is forming a good enough team to keep the heat off of your betting..

 

The way bitcoin took off give me high hopes in the cryptocurrency and I think Etherum has that same potential and is only at a little over $200 right now. EOS from what I've read is only $1.21 and is apparently a better version of etherum.. kind of want to buy atleast 5 coins in each (even the really unknown ones) and hope for a few to really take off when it becomes mainstream

Card counting is really not all that difficult. Years ago I taught myself how to do it in fifteen minutes and had it mastered within an hour. It's really only effective in 1 or 2 deck games where they deal very deep into the shoe. These days most games deal from a 6 deck shoe and cut off between 1.5-2 decks. Rendering it fairly useless. Good luck finding a casino that will deal a single deck or even a 2 deck game that isn't totally on the look out for counters.

 

Fairly easy to spot a counter with the very predictable bet jumping. About 6 years a go a buddy of mine was in Vegas and counting at The Wynn. He took them for about 4k and while cashing out, security approached him and congratulated him on his winnings and told him to never come back. They were pissed enough to ban him after losing a measly $4,000. So good luck thinking you're going to take them for any serious amount of cash.

 

No comment on the cryptos. Others here can offer better advice than I can.

[Hortankin]

11 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Card counting is really not all that difficult. Years ago I taught myself how to do it in fifteen minutes and had it mastered within an hour. It's really only effective in 1 or 2 deck games where they deal very deep into the shoe. These days most games deal from a 6 deck shoe and cut off between 1.5-2 decks. Rendering it fairly useless. Good luck finding a casino that will deal a single deck or even a 2 deck game that isn't totally on the look out for counters.

 

Fairly easy to spot a counter with the very predictable bet jumping. About 6 years a go a buddy of mine was in Vegas and counting at The Wynn. He took them for about 4k and while cashing out, security approached him and congratulated him on his winnings and told him to never come back. They were pissed enough to ban him after losing a measly $4,000. So good luck thinking you're going to take them for any serious amount of cash.

 

No comment on the cryptos. Others here can offer better advice than I can.

The true count is the best way to beat the 8 deck game, some casinos let you cutoff the deck and the best way to do it is towards the bottom of the deck so the deck can get hot.

 

You may be able to cards count but highly doubt you mastered it in 1 hour. Think you can count at a fast paced table with noise and distractions while also remembering the count? Dealers also purposely say a bunch of numbers to try and make counters forget the count.

 

A true count is a mathematical equation to tell you what the count would be if there was only 1 deck left. If the count in a 1 deck game is +2 the true count is +2.

 

In order to have a true count of +2 in an 8 deck game the count will have to be +16. (+16÷8 decks=+2). Now by the time the 8 decks hit +16 there will likely be let's say 7 decks remaining, so let's say the count is a +21 with 7 decks remaining.. the true count would then be +3

 

They made it harder with more decks but if you understand it counting cards with more decks is just as easy and surprisingly just as effective.

 

As to betting strategies if your interested in more inbox me.. who knows we could hit the casino together someday

 

 

[nuckin_futz]

24 minutes ago, Hortankin said:

The true count is the best way to beat the 8 deck game, some casinos let you cutoff the deck and the best way to do it is towards the bottom of the deck so the deck can get hot.

 

You may be able to cards count but highly doubt you mastered it in 1 hour. Think you can count at a fast paced table with noise and distractions while also remembering the count? Dealers also purposely say a bunch of numbers to try and make counters forget the count.

 

A true count is a mathematical equation to tell you what the count would be if there was only 1 deck left. If the count in a 1 deck game is +2 the true count is +2.

 

In order to have a true count of +2 in an 8 deck game the count will have to be +16. (+16÷8 decks=+2). Now by the time the 8 decks hit +16 there will likely be let's say 7 decks remaining, so let's say the count is a +21 with 7 decks remaining.. the true count would then be +3

 

They made it harder with more decks but if you understand it counting cards with more decks is just as easy and surprisingly just as effective.

 

As to betting strategies if your interested in more inbox me.. who knows we could hit the casino together someday

 

 

What casino in the world will deal practically to the end of an 8 deck shoe? Been to local casinos, Vegas, Atlantic City. Not even Trump's old casinos in Atlantic City were that foolish.

 

The count I taught myself was fairly basic. 5 cards = -1, 5 cards = +1, with an Ace side count. If someone can't master that on a single deck in 1 hour they should not bother going further.

 

Yes I do think I can count effectively on a fast paced table with lots of distractions, because I have done it. Seven seat tables full of chatty people, throw in a guy in the anchor seat guessing on most decisions (adding to the aggravation). Sure you're going to lose the count from time to time. It's a very mentally tiring thing to do for prolonged periods. And of course if some blonde with her chest hanging out of her blouse happens by you may become distracted by that as well. That's all part of it. Casinos are supposed to be full of distractions.

 

The true count is not a true count. It's a supposition. Same as in poker. When counting your outs in poker (cards that will help strengthen your hand) you assume all of those cards are remaining. Even though you have no idea if any of them were folded earlier in the hand. Counting cards with more decks is not "just as easy" as you put it. There are less breaks and it is far more mentally tiring. Not to mention it is not nearly "just as effective". Simply dividing the count to account for decks remaining doesn't cover all the variables multiple decks bring. That's why casinos have all but abandoned 1 and 2 deck games and are happy to use 6-8 decks. The reason for that is to neutralize the advantage of counting. That advantage is not defeated by simple division.

 

Question: Have you actually tried counting a 6-8 deck shoe in a busy casino full of distractions?

 

As far as betting strategies go I will pass. My betting strats are employed in foreign exchange and futures markets. My business is never refused and there is no chance of getting beaten up by security.

 

cheers

[Hortankin]

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

What casino in the world will deal practically to the end of an 8 deck shoe? Been to local casinos, Vegas, Atlantic City. Not even Trump's old casinos in Atlantic City were that foolish.

 

The count I taught myself was fairly basic. 5 cards = -1, 5 cards = +1, with an Ace side count. If someone can't master that on a single deck in 1 hour they should not bother going further.

 

Yes I do think I can count effectively on a fast paced table with lots of distractions, because I have done it. Seven seat tables full of chatty people, throw in a guy in the anchor seat guessing on most decisions (adding to the aggravation). Sure you're going to lose the count from time to time. It's a very mentally tiring thing to do for prolonged periods. And of course if some blonde with her chest hanging out of her blouse happens by you may become distracted by that as well. That's all part of it. Casinos are supposed to be full of distractions.

 

The true count is not a true count. It's a supposition. Same as in poker. When counting your outs in poker (cards that will help strengthen your hand) you assume all of those cards are remaining. Even though you have no idea if any of them were folded earlier in the hand. Counting cards with more decks is not "just as easy" as you put it. There are less breaks and it is far more mentally tiring. Not to mention it is not nearly "just as effective". Simply dividing the count to account for decks remaining doesn't cover all the variables multiple decks bring. That's why casinos have all but abandoned 1 and 2 deck games and are happy to use 6-8 decks. The reason for that is to neutralize the advantage of counting. That advantage is not defeated by simple division.

 

Question: Have you actually tried counting a 6-8 deck shoe in a busy casino full of distractions?

 

As far as betting strategies go I will pass. My betting strats are employed in foreign exchange and futures markets. My business is never refused and there is no chance of getting beaten up by security.

 

cheers

No I haven't but I have practiced with noisey blackjack table noise while my Friend deals out hands for me and a few buddies to play. They can't seem to get the grasp of counting, but me winning every single time suggests to me that counting a 6-8 deck really does work, even early into the shoe. We play if 8 decks and cut about halfway. My method with a deck that high is to wait for a +20 count before betting aggressively. After the deck gets smaller that # will decrease a bit. However in a real setting I'd need people to count the cards and signal me over and bet progressively (a very common blackjack betting stratedgy). I can't bet table minimum and the all of a sudden go progressive when the deck is hot or I'll be kicked out pretty quickly.

 

If you get distracted and lose count you have not mastered it. Take 3 decks shuffle them together, count out 52 cards and try and count them in under 30 seconds while having a conversation with someone. Then you can say you mastered it when you can consistently do that.

[nuckin_futz]

46 minutes ago, Hortankin said:

No I haven't but I have practiced with noisey blackjack table noise while my Friend deals out hands for me and a few buddies to play. They can't seem to get the grasp of counting, but me winning every single time suggests to me that counting a 6-8 deck really does work, even early into the shoe. We play if 8 decks and cut about halfway. My method with a deck that high is to wait for a +20 count before betting aggressively. After the deck gets smaller that # will decrease a bit. However in a real setting I'd need people to count the cards and signal me over and bet progressively (a very common blackjack betting stratedgy). I can't bet table minimum and the all of a sudden go progressive when the deck is hot or I'll be kicked out pretty quickly.

 

If you get distracted and lose count you have not mastered it. Take 3 decks shuffle them together, count out 52 cards and try and count them in under 30 seconds while having a conversation with someone. Then you can say you mastered it when you can consistently do that.

Good luck.

[Lancaster]

14 hours ago, Hortankin said:

How much $ would I have to invest to make a comfortable amount of $ off of dividents?

 

I'm really new to the investing game and trying to learn as much as I can before I start. 

 

I like the idea of penny stocks because I'm really not working with much money and I think hitting on a penny stock is worth a gamble. I know penny stocks are a risky buisness from what I hear but I also feel like there's not enough potential in blue chip stocks to double or triple my investment. So that's why I thought I'd ask for some opinions on the dividents these stocks pay out.

14 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

I'll assume you mean dividend as I have no idea what a "divident" is.

 

The current dividend yield on the S&P (the blue chips you speak of) is 1.91%. Let's say you consider $25,000 a year a comfortable amount to make off dividends. You'd need to invest $1,300,000 in the S&P to generate that yearly.

It all depends on the rate of return you require.  Some REIT, income trusts and other dividend stocks could fetch you 5% or more annually... but bigger the risks, bigger the rewards.  Most energy companies looked like great investment vehicles back in 2012..... not so much since many have either removed their dividend all together, had their stocks crushed and/or went out of business.  

 

But @nuckin_futz is correct that you need over a million dollars to survive off dividends/interest alone without dipping into your principle.  This is all assuming you don't need to pay additional rent/mortgage, inflation remains stable, expenses remains the same, etc.  

 

If you don't have a business calculator, search for PV / FV / I / N / PMT calculators online.  You can plug in numbers to figure out your returns, how much you need, etc.  

 

[Hobble]

Anyone know a good online forum that people are discussing stocks and investments? Believe it or not, but I grow weary of trolling for hockey or Trump news.

 

I've found Stockhouse, but I Just can't get a grip around their website structure/format. Canadian Money Forum is another, but I find it is generally inactive.

[I.Am.Ironman]

I'd be interested to hear peoples opinion on where the energy sector, both oil and clean/renewable, is heading over the next 2 years. Personally, I feel we are closer to the bottom so I think there are some opportunities out there.

 

I've bought Crescent Point Energy at 9.25 and am looking at Cenovus which is trading around $10. Also on my watch list are Transalta Renewables and Crius Energy for cleaner/renewable energy options - they pay a fantastic dividend.

Edited July 27, 2017 by I.Am.Ironman

[NucksPatsFan]

My Aphria stocks are expected to break the 6.80/share ceiling today, bought back 5k when it dropped to 4.75 a couple months ago. 

 

Could stand to make a 2k profit today if I sold .. but am I going to regret it if I don't get a chance to buy back in super low again?

[Lancaster]

12 hours ago, Hobble said:

Anyone know a good online forum that people are discussing stocks and investments? Believe it or not, but I grow weary of trolling for hockey or Trump news.

 

I've found Stockhouse, but I Just can't get a grip around their website structure/format. Canadian Money Forum is another, but I find it is generally inactive.

The problem with stockhouse is that there's lots of trolling, pump/dumps, or just people who are shorting the stock and are spamming the board with many negative news (many who are not even true).  

 

Just check out the NDM board on Stockhouse.  Originally it was gonna do alright with lots of information material and news indicating progress.  Then suddenly some big shorter ran some article with out-dated information, team up with some well-funded environmentalists on a smear campaign.... then suddenly the board is flooded with random articles (many who are from years ago) spewing negatives or with lots of opinion pieces which some may mistaken as factual.  Now the stock has lost over half of it's value from the 52-week high.  

[Vanisleryan]

3 hours ago, NucksPatsFan said:

My Aphria stocks are expected to break the 6.80/share ceiling today, bought back 5k when it dropped to 4.75 a couple months ago. 

 

Could stand to make a 2k profit today if I sold .. but am I going to regret it if I don't get a chance to buy back in super low again?

If you don't need the money just hold it till next year. I sold mine in the last run up and just bought back in a couple weeks ago. I can't be bothered to try and time the swings anymore. I have a good amount of shares now so just gonna set it and forget it. Aphria is a solid company as they come. I actually order my mj from there and there service is great.