[Discussion] Do Benning and Linden have what it takes to move the Sedins on time?

[Mike Vanderhoek]

I don't think it comes down to Benning and Linden as " having what it takes " to move the Sedins on time. I mean what is on time ? now, before their play deteriorates another level ? in a year or two when they surely will be more complimentary players ?

The thing is the value the Sedins hold right now is higher in Vancouver then any return the team could get for them in a trade. So why would you simply downgrade your team in this way ?

Not to mention the twins are solid leaders, they never back down, they play smart and they take a beating but keep on going and at a high level.

in a couple of years if all goes well the hope is a couple of the younger players could be pushing for more established top roles on the club, while having the Sedin's in the picture as leaders and secondary scorers would be ideal.

The Canucks don't " have " to trade these two players, and it would likely set the team back further if they are dealt in the next couple of seasons. People will really see they were taken for granted in this city by so many fans who want the Toews,Crosby,McDavid's of the world.

The twins have had an immense impact on the game, I think people under estimate this, teams have developed offensive plans and plays after what Daniel and Henrik have done - how many times you hear announcers around the League use the term " the Sedin tip " or " the Sedin pass ".

[Provost]

The return could never equal the loss, so no it will not happen... nor should it.

You need to keep in mind that this is a business.  Go count the Sedin jerseys in the crowd and try to figure out what players folks identify with and buy tickets to come see.  Moving them would be a bad business decision for a team that is still trying to fill the building.  I remember pulling over in shock and actually crying when I heard on the radio that Linden was traded, and the return was meaningless compared to my loss of connection with the team.

They also appear to be planning on staying in Vancouver when their playing days are done (I believe just building a new house).  That means there is likely a role for them with the team beyond their playing years.  Two of the oldest guys on the team and also the fittest and hardest workers.  They also embody professionalism and being solid citizens of the community and charitable endeavours.  The competitive value of having those kind of guys around your young players and teaching them to be pro's is certainly greater than getting some mid round draft picks for them.  Every training camp they sprint up the Grouse Grind in 32 minutes, leaving rookies twenty minutes in their dust.  That lesson in work ethic and what it takes to be an NHLer for a kid just trying to break through is worth its weight in gold.

As far as icing a competitive team goes, that seems to be covered here.  They are still elite top line talent, ranking amongst the top point producers in the league.  They have NMC's which reduce their trade value.  They are also considered as a package by virtually everyone in the league.  The number of suitors who are on the cusp of being an NHL contender AND have $14 million in cap space would be somewhere around zero.  The only possibility of it being feasible under cap constraints is that if on the last year of their contract a contending team lost a couple of key (expensive) players to injury before the trade deadline (and who were expected to return at the playoffs and help the team when the cap didn't matter).  They could then bring the Sedins on as rentals and LTIR replacement without being on the hook for those salaries in future years.  The return for rental players wouldn't be significant.

[TheRussianRocket.]

I'm not cherry-picking. Yzerman and Sakic are way more to Detroit and Colorado than the Sedins are to Vancouver.

 Please explain how, go on , please.

...absolutely ridiculous topic and you're starting to make up nonesense and talk gibberish just so you can stick to your original point/post while ignoring everyone else's opinions. You're completely out of line with this topic and it's embarrassingly low. 

Bottom line, good thing there aren't people like you up in management that think like you are here. And it's why they won't backdoor the Sedin's for no reason and respect whatever decision they make going forward. Somethings are beyond the norm. Good day to you.

[Pears]

I'd only consider it if, and only if:

A) We aren't contenders by the end of the decade

B: We get a massive haul for them

 

Other than that, no reason to not let them play out their contracts and retire as Canucks. 

[smokes]

 Please explain how, go on , please.

...absolutely ridiculous topic and you're starting to make up nonesense and talk gibberish just so you can stick to your original point/post while ignoring everyone else's opinions. You're completely out of line with this topic and it's embarrassingly low. 

Bottom line, good thing there aren't people like you up in management that think like you are here. And it's why they won't backdoor the Sedin's for no reason and respect whatever decision they make going forward. Somethings are beyond the norm. Good day to you.

Just because Yzerman and Sakic are better players and won Stanley Cups doe not diminish what the  Sedins did for the Vancouver. The Sedins are the all time leaders on the Canucks in likely all many statistical categories as those two legends. Much like Smyl, Linden, Bure, and Naslund, people will remember the Sedins the same way. After the Sedins retire, people will reminisce about their play for years. So unless the Canucks management are real jerks, why would one trade a pair of living legends for the Canucks..

[Phil_314]

I think timing is crucial, and I hope that management ultimately pulls the trade off well so they're not sold for cheap.  

First it's important that they leave on similar terms as Ryan Smyth did when the Oil dealt him to the Islanders way back when, and not like when we made a trade with the Ducks for some bones, some pizza and a can since someone was dying to leave.  That way the team can always just retain them if they still have term and the return is too little.

Next, it's also necessary to find an emerging team with a fit for them, in terms of their future team having roles for them on the roster, room to fit them in the cap and the prospects/ young players to afford them, like what the Kings paid for Mike Richards when they traded for him.  

In terms of teams of fit, I'd look at Nashville as an option.  They have a bunch of young forwards who are capable 2nd line guys (Smith, Wilson) to complement Forsberg and Neal but Fisher and Ribeiro isn't the strongest #1 center choices in a tough division and Hank would be a solid fit there.  If we could get a center replacement in Ribeiro, a prospect/ young forward who can play right away and a 1st for Hank and then one of their emerging young D-men and a 1st for Danny in a non-contract year trade I think that would be very solid of a return.  We'll be slightly weaker up front but will have their replacements, plus we could have a young replacement for Hammer should he choose to leave, and two 1st's (late given how the team would be stronger with the Twins) to continue to stockpile youth.          

Lastly, to those who say "they're loyal, they won't leave", etc. etc. I want to say "it's a business" like GM's say all the time, and when the team wants their loyal soldier to move on that's often what the team gets, lest the relationship sour in the dressing room with the media stirring up controversies.  Again, last thing I'd want is another Kes or Luongo-type drama.  Not saying the Twins will cause that but in general it's important to time trades right.

[Alflives]

Just because Yzerman and Sakic are better players and won Stanley Cups doe not diminish what the  Sedins did for the Vancouver. The Sedins are the all time leaders on the Canucks in likely all many statistical categories as those two legends. Much like Smyl, Linden, Bure, and Naslund, people will remember the Sedins the same way. After the Sedins retire, people will reminisce about their play for years. So unless the Canucks management are real jerks, why would one trade a pair of living legends for the Canucks..

was Ray Bourque traded to the Avs, or signed as a free agent?  Was Iggy traded away from Calgary (God, I hate the Flames - I spit just typing their name.) or signed as a free agent?  Great franchise leading players get traded.  It happens.  As a fan I would accept the Twins being traded if it helped our team get younger and better.

 

trevor got traded, and part of the return for him turned into one of the twins.  

[Benchsplinters]

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. 

Did Detroit trade away Lidstrom and Yzerman? Did Colorado trade away Sakic? Sedin's are at that level for our organization. Luongo's/Kesler's/Bieksa's have been dealt and rightfully so. Hamhuis/Vrbata/Higgins might be in the near future. But the Sedin's, you don't trade them away just to get some minuscule value back at the end of their careers after they've done everything and beyond for this organization, city, province, and community. They are the franchise and you do whatever they want. If they are comfortable staying under a secondary role while the youngsters take over (which is what they have said), you fulfill those words and commit to what they say. If they say they want out (which they've never said), you trade them. If they walk when FA's to go elsewhere, you let them. They are that special to us and that's the respect and loyalty they will be given and treated with.

 

...absolutely ridiculous topic smh

Totally agree, it is just some people cannot stop trying to invent the simplest tools.  They are all wedges.  They dream but have no  realistic perception.  They believe that Vancouver has commodities that every team in the NHL want/desire yet they just can't wrap their head around the fact that todays salary cap precludes the majority of teams from spending when they are tight against the limit each year.  They do not consider the fact that in the salary cap world, player development is now of prime importance, a team cannot just swing open the vault doors and with young player development now the newest and cheapest ways of remaining competitive, they are certainly going to protect the majority of assets they have waiting in the wings.  Someone once said, "We grow too soon old and too late smart."  

In defense of Vancouver fans and due to the fact they have not had the chance to celebrate a cup victory, they have become impatient and just want that prize now, thinking that one big move will make their dream come true.  Well, it just doesn't work that way and until they, the "hopers/wishers"realize that, you are going to get threads like this.

There is one consolation though, this is not Toronto thank God.  Their dreams are based on other dreams.

[TheRussianRocket.]

was Ray Bourque traded to the Avs, or signed as a free agent?  Was Iggy traded away from Calgary (God, I hate the Flames - I spit just typing their name.) or signed as a free agent?  Great franchise leading players get traded.  It happens.  As a fan I would accept the Twins being traded if it helped our team get younger and better.

 

trevor got traded, and part of the return for him turned into one of the twins.  

You're missing the point. Yes that has happened. Why? Iginla wanted out and a chance to win the Cup. So did Bourque. The Sedin's however, they are committed to staying in Vancouver so why would you move them? That would literally be giving them the boot for no reason. 

Like I've said, you honour whatever the Sedin's decide on going forward. If they want a trade, you trade them (which they've never said). If they want to walk as FA's, you let them walk. If they say they'll stay under a mentor role and take on a secondary role, you let them and it's what they have said. 

...idk why all these armchair 'jerks' want to kick the twins out for no reason. It's pathetic and disgusting. 

[Alflives]

You're missing the point. Yes that has happened. Why? Iginla wanted out and a chance to win the Cup. So did Bourque. The Sedin's however, they are committed to staying in Vancouver so why would you move them? That would literally be giving them the boot for no reason. 

Like I've said, you honour whatever the Sedin's decide on going forward. If they want a trade, you trade them (which they've never said). If they want to walk as FA's, you let them walk. If they say they'll stay under a mentor role and take on a secondary role, you let them and it's what they have said. 

...idk why all these armchair 'jerks' want to kick the twins out for no reason. It's pathetic and disgusting. 

I get it.  My apologies for being a slow on the up take furry assed alien.  Yes I agree with you.  The Twins should get to decide, absolutely.

unless we could get younger and better, then JB decides.

[JamesB]

Sedins will retire in a Canucks uniform. With knowing that, Sedins will not be first line material in the next few years. We will need to put them to 2nd line and we need our youngsters to step into that first line scoring roles. 

Most of the important points have been made several times already, but here is a slightly different angle.

The key point is that the Sedins are more valuable to the Canucks than to other teams. In a sense, the Canucks are built around the Sedins. If the Canucks trade the Sedins they won't have a legitimate first line this year or next year. Maybe two years down the road McCann develops into 1C but right now the Canucks have no replacements. But most other teams already have expensive top line players and do not have cap room for two guys at $7 million each.

And of course the Sedins are popular in Vancouver and trading them would hurt fan support in the short run.

In addition, the Sedins have no-movement clauses and do not want to leave. If asked, they might go, but they might not. If Benning asks them to go they might reasonably say that maybe Benning should go instead.

There is some small chance they could be traded as rentals in their last contract year (2017-18) and then return as free agents in the off-season. That could happen if the Canucks are out of the playoff hunt in 2017-18. But otherwise they are not likely to go anywhere.

 

[Komodo13]

No, let them finish here, they deserve it.

Agreed.

With all they've done for this team and community, they've earned the right to determine their own fates.  If anything, I would prefer to see them dropped to the second line where the demands on them will lessen and they can still be very effective until they decide to call it a career.

[AlphaHoneyBadger]

You can't move someone who isn't going anywhere. 

[Nave]

Can people stop requesting we trade them?...

[NEON.KNEE]

The only way the Twins ever leave Vancouver is at their request, and to a contender if they don't win a cup here first.

The only way the OP is allowed to start a new thread is if he is able to remove his head from his anus...Good luck Bud.

[Gollumpus]

it's hard to debate, when the premis proposed begins with the idiocy of the Edmonton players offered.

Which was sorta' kinda' my point about some of the deals being suggested, but okay, you missed that I guess.

                                                      regards,                                                                                                                                                                                                  G.

[AlphaHoneyBadger]

IF, and that is a GIANT IF, they ever wanted to leave where would they even want to go that almost guarantees a cup or final? NYR and maybe MTL, everyone else is a question mark.

[SNACanuck]

They aren't being moved unless they want to be moved. They are ok with a secondary role which shows they prefer to remain in Van. We keep them until they retire or decide they've had enough of Van. Yes this is business, but sometimes people like where they work and will do what it takes to remain where they are at. They do plenty for the community and anyone who is asking to move them needs to also consider the impact and contribution they make to the community as a whole, not just the game of hockey. Those things are not easily replaced.

[Baggins]

was Ray Bourque traded to the Avs, or signed as a free agent?  Was Iggy traded away from Calgary (God, I hate the Flames - I spit just typing their name.) or signed as a free agent?  Great franchise leading players get traded.  It happens.  As a fan I would accept the Twins being traded if it helped our team get younger and better.

 

trevor got traded, and part of the return for him turned into one of the twins.  

Bourque requested the trade.

[Coconuts]

Every time I see a topic like this it hurts my soul.

They should retire Canucks, it would be a damn shame if they didn't.