NBA Discussion

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, Toews said:

He is LeChina until he stops spouting communist propaganda and admits that it wasn't Daryl Morey's comments that were ignorant but his own. But he won't because Nike pays him a lot of money and they have business interests in China, so its 'Shut up and dribble' for LeChina.  

Have to say-you are right on this point. 

Lebron was a social justice warrior, till it began to affect his wallet.

[Monty]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

Debatable.

 

Jordan, Olajuwon, Robinson, Shaq, Barkley, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Miller, Wilkins. IMO, were a tier above Pippen.

Yeah, very debatable. I like Pippen just fine, and did when he was playing.

 

But in the 90s, aside from Jordan, I'd want any of these players on my team (and who are easily better) than Pippen, who again, wasn't bad, just a tier below:

 

- Robinson

- Duncan

- Iverson

- Payton

- Miller

- Stockton

- Malone

- Jordan

- Shaq

- Barkley

- Olajuwon

- Kemp

- Ewing

 

Again, Pippen was a good second punch. But any of those players on the Bulls with Jordan would have been downright scary.

[Sikhguy23]

 

I agree with this, in terms of overall game Lebron>Jordan, but in terms of overall resume+game Jordan>Lebron. One is an individual thing, the other is also about your team.

[shiznak]

Magic kind of contradict himself by saying LeBron is the best all-round player, but Michael is the greatest player of all-time. You can’t be called the best all-round without being great.

 

Jordan has a defensive player of the year award and was named to 9 all-defensive teams to LeBron’s 6. LeBron is also notorious for having a below average mid-range game. He has a career shooting percentage of .368% beyond 10ft away from the basket. Whereas, Jordan is at .446. 

[Silky mitts]

Jordan is firmly at the top position. His dominance was something else. Lebron is number two , with a shot to surpass Jordan. Which imo he will not.  

[Silky mitts]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:27 AM, shiznak said:

Iverson never needed practice. Therefore, he’s considered one of the GOAT.

AI will always have my respect for dragging that 76er squad to the finals and managing to actually win a game against the lakers.

[Monty]

1 hour ago, Silky mitts said:

AI will always have my respect for dragging that 76er squad to the finals and managing to actually win a game against the lakers.

AI taking the Sixers to the Finals is, to me, the equivalent to Hasek taking the Sabres to the Finals. Both teams had no business being in the playoffs, let alone the Finals. Those were two rare cases in time where there really was an "I" in "Team." Both players were the team.

Interesting that the same producer of The Last Dance also produced the 2014 documentary on Allen Iverson. I've watched that documentary on Iverson twice now, once 6 years ago, and again last week. That should have been a 2-3 part doc in itself. Man, did that guy have to scratch and claw his way just to get to college. He was this close to never playing basketball again and spending 5 years in prison for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and NOT doing a thing.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Monty

[Sikhguy23]

38 minutes ago, Monty said:

AI taking the Sixers to the Finals is, to me, the equivalent to Hasek taking the Sabres to the Finals. Both teams had no business being in the playoffs, let alone the Finals. Those were two rare cases in time where there really was an "I" in "Team." Both players were the team.

Interesting that the same producer of The Last Dance also produced the 2014 documentary on Allen Iverson. I've watched that documentary on Iverson twice now, once 6 years ago, and again last week. That should have been a 2-3 part doc in itself. Man, did that guy have to scratch and claw his way just to get to college. He was this close to never playing basketball again and spending 5 years in prison for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and NOT doing a thing.

I think the 07 Cavs need to be in that discussion as well, I look at that lineup and laugh sometimes man that was an ugly roster.

 

 

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

Magic kind of contradict himself by saying LeBron is the best all-round player, but Michael is the greatest player of all-time. You can’t be called the best all-round without being great.

 

Jordan has a defensive player of the year award and was named to 9 all-defensive teams to LeBron’s 6. LeBron is also notorious for having a below average mid-range game. He has a career shooting percentage of .368% beyond 10ft away from the basket. Whereas, Jordan is at .446. 

I think he got it right. Lebron is a better all-round player. He can score, obviously not as well as Jordan. But his passing and rebounding are better. Prime Lebrons defence might of been better as well, with his ability to guard basically all 5 positions, he was robbed of the DPOY I think it was 2013? Jordans resume and ability score make him the greatest.

[Toews]

5 hours ago, Monty said:

AI taking the Sixers to the Finals is, to me, the equivalent to Hasek taking the Sabres to the Finals. Both teams had no business being in the playoffs, let alone the Finals. Those were two rare cases in time where there really was an "I" in "Team." Both players were the team.

Interesting that the same producer of The Last Dance also produced the 2014 documentary on Allen Iverson. I've watched that documentary on Iverson twice now, once 6 years ago, and again last week. That should have been a 2-3 part doc in itself. Man, did that guy have to scratch and claw his way just to get to college. He was this close to never playing basketball again and spending 5 years in prison for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and NOT doing a thing.

Watching Iverson's documentary left MJ in tears. Supposedly it was the impetus to him deciding to do The Last Dance.

 

Others here believe that it was because he was threatened by a vastly inferior player in LeChina.  

[Sikhguy23]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

Watching Iverson's documentary left MJ in tears. Supposedly it was the impetus to him deciding to do The Last Dance.

 

Others here believe that it was because he was threatened by a vastly inferior player in LeChina.  

What the reports from reputable reporters are saying as well, but carry on.... He's scared that Lebron may actually touch his legacy. You really think MJ was left in tears based on what another player did? The documentary portrays him as a stone cold killer, who doesn't give a $&!# about others....

[Monty]

28 minutes ago, Sikhguy23 said:

What the reports from reputable reporters are saying as well, but carry on.... He's scared that Lebron may actually touch his legacy. You really think MJ was left in tears based on what another player did? The documentary portrays him as a stone cold killer, who doesn't give a $&!# about others....

You know there’s nothing wrong with reading other reports that claim otherwise, right? And that you don’t have to treat others’ opinion as a joke, or baiting them by saying such condescending things like:

 

Quote

all you old people

 

You must be one of those fans that watches, but hasn't played ball a day in his life

This doesn’t help, at all. People tune out immediately and, even if your research/opinion is solid and fine, nobody really cares to take it seriously and have any interest in engaging further.

 

We’re all entitled to have our own opinion. There’s nothing wrong with it. And you are also entitled to keep talking down to people, if you so choose. But don’t be surprised when nobody responds.

[Toews]

21 minutes ago, Sikhguy23 said:

What the reports from reputable reporters are saying as well, but carry on.... He's scared that Lebron may actually touch his legacy. You really think MJ was left in tears based on what another player did? The documentary portrays him as a stone cold killer, who doesn't give a $&!# about others....

Yeah I am pretty sure Michael Jordan can get emotional about other players. I have never gotten the impression that he is a sociopath. Now you are just going a little over the top. With that said I am bowing out this discussion. 

[Sikhguy23]

3 minutes ago, Monty said:

You know there’s nothing wrong with reading other reports that claim otherwise, right? And that you don’t have to treat others’ opinion as a joke, or baiting them by saying such condescending things like:

 

This doesn’t help, at all. People tune out immediately and, even if your research/opinion is solid and fine, nobody really cares to take it seriously and have any interest in engaging further.

 

We’re all entitled to have our own opinion. There’s nothing wrong with it. And you are also entitled to keep talking down to people, if you so choose. But don’t be surprised when nobody responds.

I don't think I've said anything mean or hurtful anywhere? If I have or you are offended by something I said I apologize. The whole point of the canucks forum is to share your opinion, and have a good time. That's what I come here for. I know more about basketball history wise, then I do hockey so when I click on this particular discussion I might get overzealous, but none of what I say is meant to be offend anyone. I just state my opinion as you and others do, and try to back it up as best I can.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Toews said:

Yeah I am pretty sure Michael Jordan can get emotional about other players. I have never gotten the impression that he is a sociopath. Now you are just going a little over the top. With that said I am bowing out this discussion. 

 

I don't know man not letting Horace Grant or whoever it was eat lunch on the plane, due to a bad game seems like a total sociopathic move, but it is what it is I guess. Amazing player, but his personality, and the stories that come out of him leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

[Monty]

11 minutes ago, Sikhguy23 said:

I don't think I've said anything mean or hurtful anywhere?

I never said you did. What I said was, when you respond to others by being condescending and patronizing, nobody really cares what your opinion might be; not just for you, but anyone that talks like that. People inevitably tune people out when that occurs.

 

You didn’t “hurt” my feelings, I was commenting on how your were responding to others. When someone talks down to me or baits me, I’ll just laugh it off and tell them “to go f**k themselves“, at which point they usually play victim.

[HI5]

MJ still GOAT!
 

Documentary brought back memories but it could have been done better. 

[Toews]

Quote

I don't know man not letting Horace Grant or whoever it was eat lunch on the plane, due to a bad game seems like a total sociopathic move, but it is what it is I guess. Amazing player, but his personality, and the stories that come out of him leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

If so I am sure we have all done some "sociopathic" things in our life. To me that was Michael being a dick, which he was known for being. You should see the video where Chamillionaire talks about meeting Michael. I don't really idolize athletes for the people that they are (Sedins being a rare exception to that rule), that is why I am not invested in defending Michael's honour the way you do with LeChina. Michael was a huge POS to a lot of people, that's a fact, it doesn't diminish who he was as a basketball player though. It also doesn't diminish the charitable contributions he has made, his impact on the game of basketball and sports culture in general. 

 

I also believe that neither of us knows any of these guys personally so to make statements like "he doesn't give a &^@# about anybody." is unfair. The man has a family, wife and kids which I am sure he loves. To see him sobbing on the floor of the locker room after winning his 4th championship on Father's day made me realize that we have more moments of Michael being extremely emotional and vulnerable than probably any other athlete. The crying Jordan meme which came from his HOF speech. And of course the video I already posted at Kobe's funeral.

 

I actually think his problem is the other way around, I think he cares too much about other people. His competitiveness seems to make him see everything as a slight, and once he is slighted he will hold that grudge for a lifetime. That just seems unhealthy and a rather sad approach to life. When I picture him sitting around, I just see him grumbling into his drink based on some perceived slight either imaginary or real. I am no doctor but I am pretty sure your eyes are not supposed to be that colour, I would not be surprised if he is drinking himself into an early grave. That was kind of my takeaway from the Last Dance. As much as we celebrate his mentality because it led him to great success on a basketball court, it clearly left him with some deep character flaws. 

 

2 hours ago, Sikhguy23 said:

I don't think I've said anything mean or hurtful anywhere? If I have or you are offended by something I said I apologize. The whole point of the canucks forum is to share your opinion, and have a good time. That's what I come here for. I know more about basketball history wise, then I do hockey so when I click on this particular discussion I might get overzealous, but none of what I say is meant to be offend anyone. I just state my opinion as you and others do, and try to back it up as best I can.

Some of us are much too old to be talked down to. You have a tendency to engage in pejoratives, it kind of indicates to me that you are a little too invested in this debate. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Toews

[Van40]

Enough of the pissing contest. Let's talk actual basketball. 

 

 

Other than Giannis, who has next? Which young player do you guys think could be the face of the league/best player 

 

I got Tatum. 6'9 with a Kobe/Melo type of mid range game, great 3pt shooter, and All-NBA calibre defense. 

 

I hate that he's plays for the Celtics but he's going to be an all time great. 

[Sikhguy23]

I think he will be a star but not superstar. Personally I think it's Doncic's league in a couple years. Love the way he plays the game, dude can do it all.... really fun to watch. I think Giannis is only what 24/25? so both of them will probably be the faces of the league.

[shiznak]

13 hours ago, Sikhguy23 said:

I think the 07 Cavs need to be in that discussion as well, I look at that lineup and laugh sometimes man that was an ugly roster.

 

 

I think he got it right. Lebron is a better all-round player. He can score, obviously not as well as Jordan. But his passing and rebounding are better. Prime Lebrons defence might of been better as well, with his ability to guard basically all 5 positions, he was robbed of the DPOY I think it was 2013? Jordans resume and ability score make him the greatest.

His career rebounding was only slightly better than Jordan’s. His assist totals were far better, but thats due to being a SF, while Jordan played primarily SG throughout his career. Jordan led the league in steals 3 times and has guarded players way bigger and stronger than him (Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning).

[Down by the River]

So I'm waaaaaaaaay late to this video, but I don't think I've ever seen a better fan-made documentary:

 

 

The video quality isn't always great because the guy clearly downloaded other people's Youtube videos... but the story, editing, weaving of timelines is excellent.