Veterans & Rookies Overall Play

[TimberWolf]

How does suggesting we move on further from this core group (who I don't think anyone can realistically argue against the fact that they have already shown they can't get us over the playoff hump anymore) and giving more opportunity to young players automatically amount to tanking?

Some of you have no idea what tanking actually is. Tanking is purposely losing. Giving bigger roles and more opportunity to young players in place of declining vets is not a guarantee we will be worse than we are now. Hell, we may even be better.

It's become a bit of a meme.

 

Use youth more = Oilers.

[alfstonker]

As I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Doesn't make mine wrong though.

It is not so much that I watch the young players any more or less than the vets. I just like the fire I see from those kids more than the apathetic play of our core vets for the 4th or 5th year in a row now.

I disagree on Desjardins (or any other coach). They ALWAYS have something to prove. And Desjardins has not yet cemented anything in terms of his ability to coach at the NHL level imo. The bottom line is that decisions he makes cost us games more often than they should considering it is the same mistakes over and over again in most cases. The players have to execute but the coach still needs to put them in the position to do so. The bottomless pit of trust for vet players is a real issue on this team and has been for years.

The core are not apathetic. Look at the standings.

Desjardins, 3rd best NHL rookie season of all time (with an injury dogged team at that) says he cemented his first year as an NHL coach to me. If you say that was expected then go back and read what the expectations for him and the team were and give yourself a shake.

Why shouldn't the core players be trusted? They have carried this team to some very good positions over the years. It was not their fault that Gillies didn't know how to support them.

We are 2nd in the Div and 4th in the conference, where do you think we should be, considering we are blooding 3 rookies and have already had injuries to 3 key players?

[alfstonker]

Don't you think them playing higher up in the line-up against better skilled opponents would lower their stats as well?

There is no way McCann is better than Henrik

Of course he's not. Just more silly stats to back up ridiculous bias. 

Since this team got a couple of rookies these boards have taken to chewing off their own legs.

[Alflives]

Of course he's not. Just more silly stats to back up ridiculous bias. 

Since this team got a couple of rookies these boards have taken to chewing off their own legs.

I prefer the darker meat anyway, so chewing legs is okay by me.

[wallstreetamigo]

The core are not apathetic. Look at the standings.

Desjardins, 3rd best NHL rookie season of all time (with an injury dogged team at that) says he cemented his first year as an NHL coach to me. If you say that was expected then go back and read what the expectations for him and the team were and give yourself a shake.

Why shouldn't the core players be trusted? They have carried this team to some very good positions over the years. It was not their fault that Gillies didn't know how to support them.

We are 2nd in the Div and 4th in the conference, where do you think we should be, considering we are blooding 3 rookies and have already had injuries to 3 key players?

Again, you have the right to your opinion adding I. The "look at the standings" argument is weak and pointless. How many good regular seasons have led to disappointing playoff performances by this team? They have had exactly one good run throughout the lifespan of this core group and that was in 2011. All other years have been mediocre to outright choking with this group. That is simply fact.

No coach cements their NHL reputation in one season, especially one that ended with such a terrible coaching performance in the playoffs. He got schooled due to his stubborn reliance on guys who have proven they can't raise their game and compete in the playoffs. Saying he has proven anything yet is maybe the stupidest comment I have seen in awhile. 

The core are and have been apathetic for years. And part of that is due to knowing they will never be held accountable for it by Desjardins and AV before him. Tortorella tried a bit more but did not seem to have the support of management to make changes.

[gocanucks1916]

People need to just stop with the vets vs. youth narrative. If our team is going anywhere, every player need to be better - period.

[alfstonker]

Again, you have the right to your opinion adding I. The "look at the standings" argument is weak and pointless. How many good regular seasons have led to disappointing playoff performances by this team? They have had exactly one good run throughout the lifespan of this core group and that was in 2011. All other years have been mediocre to outright choking with this group. That is simply fact.

No coach cements their NHL reputation in one season, especially one that ended with such a terrible coaching performance in the playoffs. He got schooled due to his stubborn reliance on guys who have proven they can't raise their game and compete in the playoffs. Saying he has proven anything yet is maybe the stupidest comment I have seen in awhile. 

The core are and have been apathetic for years. And part of that is due to knowing they will never be held accountable for it by Desjardins and AV before him. Tortorella tried a bit more but did not seem to have the support of management to make changes.

I can't believe you are talking about playoffs at 15 games in, have you got a crystal ball amigo? I mentioned the standings because it is really the only thing that dictates performance at this time. You don't like it because they are a statement of fact.

Very few on here expected us to make the playoffs anyway. So on the one hand we have the team, probably in most reasonable people's minds, performing better than expectations and on the other hand some of these same people (probably) moaning because we don't look like we will lift the cup (although as I say it is far too early for that anyway)

Hell man we are transitioning, I wasn't aware that went hand in hand with winning the cup.

I didn't say he cemented his "reputation" I said he cemented his "first year" Are you denying that?

Imo the core have kept this team afloat for years. What we are doing now should have been done 3 or 4 years ago but we didn't have the prospects or the affiliate to make it happen. That is not the core's fault. As I say they got little help.

Tortorella? Please; give me a break, you are embarrassing yourself now. The guy was permanently "out to lunch."

[alfstonker]

People need to just stop with the vets vs. youth narrative. If our team is going anywhere, every player need to be better - period.

Well said.

Part of the problem on these boards is so many don't give a ------ about the TEAM. They have their favourite players, their "hate victims" and the rest can go to hell. 

They perch on the edge of their keyboards waiting for the team to slip up, many apparently not bothering to watch the games then pile in with the hate for their "victims," rubbishing the coach and bumming up their flavour of the month, who of course can do no wrong.

We saw it classically illustrated with the countless and tedious Zack Kassian threads.

[The Lock]

Part of the problem on these boards is so many don't give a ------ about the TEAM. They have their favourite players, their "hate victims" and the rest can go to hell. 

They perch on the edge of their keyboards waiting for the team to slip up, many apparently not bothering to watch the games then pile in with the hate for their "victims," rubbishing the coach and bumming up their flavour of the month, who of course can do no wrong.

I see it as the opposite actually. They care too much to the point that they want to put every player under a microscope and rule over the team with a whip when things go wrong. The problem comes in when they don't know what's wrong and they think their opinion is always right because they know more about the team than everyone else in their eyes.

If people didn't care, they wouldn't be wasting their time in a forum about it.

[coolboarder]

I have said in my first post, split up the Sedins and you will see both PP units improve and look better.   Loading up the PP is not the answer.   Yes, they may get a goal or two in the future but 5-minute major failed to get one, and already tonight's game, 0-2 after first period.   Playing a 2-2-1 PP formation is not the answer, one defenseman on the point.   I would try to give a different look, 2 defenseman on the point drastic give a different feel and it could open up more scoring chance and also to protect the board better if the PK tries to clear the zone.   The PK has easier time clearing the zone once a turnover is made.   Also, on the 2-defenseman on the blue line would have a greater passing options, forcing the goalie to move from one side to the other side with one-timer.  

[dura_mater]

How does suggesting we move on further from this core group (who I don't think anyone can realistically argue against the fact that they have already shown they can't get us over the playoff hump anymore) and giving more opportunity to young players automatically amount to tanking?

Some of you have no idea what tanking actually is. Tanking is purposely losing. Giving bigger roles and more opportunity to young players in place of declining vets is not a guarantee we will be worse than we are now. Hell, we may even be better.

Exactly.  Anyone wanting to ship out a few vets is automatically lumped into the tanking crowd.  I don't want to tank but like you said, the current core has had their chance and shown they can't win it.  Ship some of them out and let the younger kids play.  Don't rush them but give them opportunities.  Will be finish lower in the standings and draft higher?  Of course.  Is this tanking? No.  Tanking is purposely losing.

[Baggins]

I get your sarcasm, but I'm thinking we will need several, so following our current path of sticking in the middle is the wrong way to accomplish building a Cup team.

The problem is the fans disappear with one bad season here. Several seasons isn't an option. It's easy to say suck for years when it's not your money on the line. Will you buy seasons tickets for a bottom feeder for the next five years?

Detroit didn't need to become a bottom to rebuild on the fly. The question is can they do it a second time.

[Canuck_Fan_52]

Hockey, like anything else that has customers, is a business.  Players (veterans and rookies alike) submit to the coaches and coaches submit to the GMs.  Every coach has a hand they are dealt with.  For some it is a good hand for others not so good.  How they effectively use the hand is the key and the GM can also look at the hand to make a determination whether to keep certain cards or to trade away certain cards.  Detroit is a successful franchise as they have made the playoffs every year since the mid-80s.  Yes I understand that they were stacked back in the 90s and early 200s but what about after the salary cap was implemented?  They were wise in how they used their hand to continue to make the post season and won a cup.  Chicago is a great franchise (3 stanley cups after the salary cap).  They too knew how to use their hand and to build a winner despite having to let some good players leave due to the cap.  LA Kings are a great franchise (2 Stanley Cups since the salary cap) Can't the Canucks management learn from successful organizations as to better use what they have?  The coach is limited to the actions of the GM and the players are limited to what the coach tells them to do.