The Lock Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did we really need another thread to try and convince people who won't read it about why we won't full on tank? The don't care about your direct replies in the other threads where they suggest it, why would this thread change their minds?To be honest, after thinking about things, I'd rather just have these threads show up periodically than to have someone going "why post this?" afterwards. It sounds worse than the topic itself. There's no need for your reply in my opinion.If the board moderators feel the topic is unneeded, they can fix it. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So, to be clear, 3 different teams that were bottom dwellers in the 2000's have won the Stanley since 09'?3 teams have succeeded with that formula...2 teams have succeeded with that formulaBut knowing my luck, I would miserably watch them tank for a decade or so, and then in 2027 when they're finally getting that one guy that's gonna put them over the top, a hockey clone grown in a lab where they fused the DNA of Gretzky, Crosby and McDavid, on opening day I walk out of my house and get impaled by some damn kid on a hoverboard.Plus, I just hate when they lose. Like, ever. So thanks but no tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I do find it funny how the tankers will mention "3 teams" lately and forget about the rest of the league, because we'd totally be one of those teams after tanking! Forget about the other 26 teams, including the other teams that have tanked with little to no success.You can make anything sound good if you focus only on the facts that make it sound good! Tanking is one of these instances. It's like putting whip cream on something that smells and trying to sell it as a cupcake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Plus, I just hate when they lose. Like, ever. So thanks but no tanks. I hate losing more than I like winning. Hate gambling, it pisses me off something fierce when I lose through no fault of my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 To be honest, after thinking about things, I'd rather just have these threads show up periodically than to have someone going "why post this?" afterwards. It sounds worse than the topic itself. There's no need for your reply in my opinion.If the board moderators feel the topic is unneeded, they can fix it. Simple as that.So you're saying I should just make a new thread to tell people making a new thread to tell other people to stop their posts in previous threads is bad? Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So you're saying I should just make a new thread to tell people making a new thread to tell other people to stop their posts in previous threads is bad? Gotcha.Sure. Why not?Although what I was suggesting was just to let things be, period. I just think it would set a better tone with each thread instead of having a bunch of baloney right after the op's post. It makes the thread sound negative whenever you do it and just makes CDC a worse place in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tystick Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Great points. I appreciate people like you putting in the time to compile arguments against the naysayers.I understand their desire to draft higher and acquire a couple franchise players, but tanking is not and never will be the answer. I'm honestly very surprised people are still in favor of it considering we're already transitioning and interjecting our future. Has it never crossed your minds that doing so would only move things backwards? Have some respect for the Sedins, fans, and the team itself. What a disaster that would be. A complete disgrace to the image of this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockeye Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Great post. My feelings exactly. I'm sick and tired of the trade Sedins thread and the tank threads. The Sedins will retire as Canucks. We don't need a couple of mid range picks for the Sedins. Let's keep them and let them retire with dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 So now let's look at the positive bottom-dwellers over the past 6-7 years.Chicago- 3 Stanley Cups (2010, 2013, 2015)Los Angeles- 2 Stanley Cups (2012, 2014)Pittsburgh- 1 Stanley Cup (2009) Chicago didn't make the playoffs in 10 of the 11 years between 1998-2008. A decade of futility, but they weren't a bottom feeder for many of those years and were just a position or two out of the playoffs. They didn't try to tank, they tried to compete every year and then just had a couple of really bad years. They then got lucky and won the draft lottery which allowed them to move up to the top pick.Los Angeles missed the playoffs for 12 of 16 years between 1994-2009 but they were one of those middling bubble teams trying to compete that you so despise and only had 2 top 5 picks in that entire time playing on their team... Doughty and Brayden Schenn. Their success was due to those players they got while a bubble team. Brown (13th pick); Kopitar 11th pick); Quick (72nd pick); Clifford (35th pick); Lewis (17th pick); Vonov (32nd overall); Martinez (95th pick); Simmonds (61st pick) who along with Johnson (who they didn't draft) helped get them Richards and Carter in trade.Pittsburgh was the only team you mentioned that was truly awful and only for 5 years. They also happened to get Whitney; Crosby; Fleury; Malkin; and Jordan Staal with those five top 5 picks in a row. So the lesson is... it is rare for a team to have success this way, and even in the best case scenario it takes years as I mentioned in my OP AND you have to time it perfectly to where it happens to be a year where you can draft Crosby instead of Yakopov.The folks arguing for a tank seem to think that you just have to lose for a couple of years and then magically will win a Cup... it just doesn't happen that way.Not even the teams you quote as a reason to tank ever tried to tank like you are suggesting. They did their best to make trades and win, but just couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat James Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 While I'm not advocating us tanking it out I'd like to point out that while the information you've shared is correct there's also a case to be made for tanking: Since the lockout we've had seven unique Stanley Cup Champions (Canes in '06, Ducks in '07, Wings in '08, Pens in '09, Hawks in '10, Bruins in '11 and Kings in '12,) with the Kings and Hawks repeating their win twice and three times. If you look at the first time a team has won the cup in this era there is only on of these team that hasn't had at least a top two overall pick in one of the three most recent drafts prior to their Cup win. The team that breaks the streak is of course, the 2008 Stanley Cup Champions, The Detroit Red Wings. However I really don't feel that any conclusions can be drawn from the Red Wings as they currently have a 24 year playoff streak, (just to put it in perspective: the second longest active streak is the Pittsburgh Penguins with nine seasons.) Again, I'm not saying that we should be tanking, I'm just saying that you clearly can make a case for there being a correlation between tanking (having a top pick in the draft) and winning the Stanley Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I would never want to tank on purpose . hiring benning would have been a complete waste . his skill is obvious . He has given the scouts of this franchise a real opportunity to build this team by making great and informed choices when picking in the draft . Now if we are on the outside looking in ? Im all for trading vets so that our brilliant g.m can pick up even more kids that will make us more of a power house in years to come . no one wins when there is a culture of losing , no one .. I give trevor props . he hired the right guy for the job . we are in great hands canuck fans . believe it and be patient . these guys are building a winner hereremember , rome wasn't built in a day . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzy Desjardins Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Remember the late 90s, where's our cup? You can't guarantee lottery picks and winning is always better than losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree with some of the thoughts on here in that I feel we have already begun a re-tooling/re-building. We have more young guys in our lineup than we have in a very long time and not only are they there, but they're making an impact. On top of that, we have guys like Grenier, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Cassels and Subban knocking at the door soon. While times may be tougher for the next year or two, we have bright times in front of us if these kids can continue on their current paths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocksterh8 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So lets put it another way, your team didn't make the playoff's, so would you rather be drafting 22nd or 4th? hmmmDoes it really matter where you finish if your not in the playoff's anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 From reading some other posts it is more obvious that the real important part of this is not Where you draft but Who you draft. This comes down to the scouts and management. Management plays such an important role in putting the right players together at the right time. I believe we are in goods hands at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckdontlie Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Don't worry the canucks won't lose on purpose... they'll lose by accident like when Torts coached the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So lets put it another way, your team didn't make the playoff's, so would you rather be drafting 22nd or 4th? hmmmDoes it really matter where you finish if your not in the playoff's anyways?Easy choice... However would like to borrow your crystal ball that could tell at the start of the season, you'd just miss the playoffs.Who'd in their right mind would want to watch a team suck season after season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 From reading some other posts it is more obvious that the real important part of this is not Where you draft but Who you draft. This comes down to the scouts and management. Management plays such an important role in putting the right players together at the right time. I believe we are in goods hands at the moment. This is just it... And a bucket load of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I would probably stop being a fan if they start tanking. Goes against the principals of playing sports. Plus if you look at all the number one draft picks in the past 31 years, only 4 have won the cup with the team that drafted them.Crosby, Fleury, Kane and Lecavalier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_NHL_draft_picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Good job Provost, +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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