[Discussion] Acquiring Defensemen/ Defense prospects

[canuckistani]

IMO, the forward crew of Vancouver looks pretty solid for the next 3 years:

We have Henrik, Daniel, burrows, Hansen, Horvat, Sutter, Dorsett,Virtanen, McCann as near-certainties for the next year or two, leaving us with at best, 3 roster spots.

These 3 are going to be liberally contended by Baertschi, Cracknell, Higgins, Prust, Shinkaruk, Boeser (not next year, but the year after) and the free-market also provides us with options.

 

On the other hand, our defense looks dire in the long term: only Tanev and Edler are reliable enough to figure in the roster for next year for sure, with Hutton being almost a certainty unless his play doesnt fully fall off for rest of the year.

Remember, Stanton too had a stellar start last year and tailed off badly (though not as head-turning a start as Hutton).

Beyond them, we are in a pickle. Hammers is older, weaker and slower and i am sorry to say this, but he simply has not been the shutdown monster we hoped he'd be after that fated lucic hip-check.

Sbisa is also a near-certainty, though he certainly hasn't proven himself reliable enough as of yet, to play in late season/playoffs against 2nd line players of hungry teams ( same boat as Hutton but Hutton is ahead ATM).

Bartkowsksi is a honest trier but he is never going to be good enough to be beyond a decent bottom pairing defenseman for a decent (but not defensively spectacular) team. 

Weber, i hope to God he gets a good deal in Switzerland...

So that leaves us with a big gaping hole in our defense. 

IMO, we should look to tap into our abundant forwards potential and turn it into defense potential. So lets see what trades people come up with.

 

[smithers joe]

horvat to ottawa for chabot...i wouldn't do it but that's what it would take....no, they won't take higgins for chabot....a colorado fan likes hamhuis ....

[Mackcanuck]

Drop both Vrbata($5M) and Hamhuis($4.5M), both 2016 UFA's, total $9.5M cap hit

and then go hard after one of 2016 UFA,s RH D NYR -Yandle(28yrs) or COL- Erik Johnson(27yrs)

[Ghostsof1915]

What do we have that Montreal would part with Juulsen? He's got the size, but he's a little thin, but he will fill out. He's from Abbotsford, and shoots right. 

Edler to Colorado for Nicholas Meloche and a 3rd? 

Those two would long term fill our need for right handed d-men. 

What would Philly want for Robert Hagg?  Sbisa back? 

[aGENT]

Drop both Vrbata($5M) and Hamhuis($4.5M), both 2016 UFA's, total $9.5M cap hit

and then go hard after one of 2016 UFA,s RH D NYR -Yandle(28yrs) or COL- Erik Johnson(27yrs)

I'm skeptical either will actually hit free agency and if they do, we'll be in heavy competition for their services. But either of them would certainly flesh out our top 4 nicely. 

Another option would be to target contending teams looking to make a cup push at the deadline (vets) that have deep D defensive prospects but no room to play them at the NHL level in the immediate future. Teams like Washington (Bowey), NYI (Pulock), St. Louis (Schmaltz/Parayko) etc. We have Vrbata, Hamhuis and Higgins to move and could even retain salary to both help them fit under a contending teams cap as well as increase trade return value. We also have good LW and LD prospect depth to add value as well. A lot will depend on what injuries or holes those teams find themselves having towards the deadline.

Alternately, we could trade Vrbata/Hamhuis/Higgins for picks/prospects to contending teams and use those picks, prospects (and our aforementioned LW/LD depth) to target guys like Severson out of NJ who are also in more of a rebuilding phase and don't have much/any need for the vets themselves. A mix of these two options could also work (Trade Hamhuis/Higgins for picks and send those picks + Vrbata with salary retained etc to a contender for example).

Another route could be a Burke style block buster to get in to the top 2-3 and select Chychrun...though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Those last three options arguably fit our timeline better than Yandle/Johnson would (not that I'm opposed to them, they're great players, or that they're particularly old).

On a side note, I'm on record being in favour of a cheap trade at the deadline or UFA signing this summer, of Schenn as a bit of a reclamation project. He addresses two large team needs IMO. He addresses both a lack of size and depth on our right side. Even as a 6/7 guy who could slot in with injuries and perhaps when playing heavier teams he'd have value to us IMO. And if he could turn it around with a fresh start, new coaches/systems, new partner etc he'd be a FANTASTIC get.

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

I'm skeptical either will actually hit free agency and if they do, we'll be in heavy competition for their services. But either of them would certainly flesh out our top 4 nicely. 

Another option would be to target contending teams looking to make a cup push at the deadline (vets) that have deep D defensive prospects but no room to play them at the NHL level in the immediate future. Teams like Washington (Bowey), NYI (Pulock), St. Louis (Schmaltz/Parayko) etc. We have Vrbata, Hamhuis and Higgins to move and could even retain salary to both help them fit under a contending teams cap as well as increase trade return value. We also have good LW and LD prospect depth to add value as well. A lot will depend on what injuries or holes those teams find themselves having towards the deadline.

Alternately, we could trade Vrbata/Hamhuis/Higgins for picks/prospects to contending teams and use those picks, prospects (and our aforementioned LW/LD depth) to target guys like Severson out of NJ who are also in more of a rebuilding phase and don't have much/any need for the vets themselves. A mix of these two options could also work (Trade Hamhuis/Higgins for picks and send those picks + Vrbata with salary retained etc to a contender)

Another route could be a Burke style block buster to get in to the top 2-3 and select Chychrun...though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Those last three options arguably fit our timeline better than Yandle/Johnson would (not that I'm opposed to them, they're great players, or that they're particularly old).

On a side note, I'm on record being in favour of a cheap trade at the deadline or UFA signing this summer, of Schenn as a bit of a reclamation project. He addresses two large team needs IMO. He addresses both a lack of size and depth on our right side. Even as a 6/7 guy who could slot in with injuries and perhaps when playing heavier teams he'd have value to us IMO. And if he could turn it around with a fresh start, new coaches/systems, new partner etc he'd be a FANTASTIC get.

 

 

 

 

Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree looking for D?  Hutton is only 22, and his ceiling is way high.  Plus, Tryamkin looks ready, and he's a giant.  Then there is Pedan too.  Maybe we could move Hammer, or even Edler for a top line centre: Nuge, or Duchene?  Thought, other than Alf just got hit by a meteor.

[aGENT]

Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree looking for D?  Hutton is only 22, and his ceiling is way high.  Plus, Tryamkin looks ready, and he's a giant.  Then there is Pedan too.  Maybe we could move Hammer, or even Edler for a top line centre: Nuge, or Duchene?  Thought, other than Alf just got hit by a meteor.

Pedan looks like he'll probably be bottom 4 as his ceiling. That's all I'm willing to give Tryamkin as well at this point, though top 4 isn't out of the question. And yes we have Hutton.

They're all left side guys though. We have very, VERY little depth, particularly of the top 4/top 2 variety on our right side.

Yes, lefties can play right as we've seen with Bartowski and at times Sbisa this season. But it's certainly less ideal than having naturally right side D play there if you can. So no, IMO a top 4, right side D is very much our largest current lineup/prospect hole if we hope to be contending in the next few years.

[elvis15]

Pedan looks like he'll probably be bottom 4 as his ceiling. That's all I'm willing to give Tryamkin as well at this point, though top 4 isn't out of the question. And yes we have Hutton.

They're all left side guys though. We have very, VERY little depth, particularly of the top 4/top 2 variety on our right side.

Yes, lefties can play right as we've seen with Bartowski and at times Sbisa this season. But it's certainly less ideal than having naturally right side D play there if you can. So no, IMO a top 4, right side D is very much our largest current lineup/prospect hole if we hope to be contending in the next few years.

Yup, losing Corrado and Clendening (whatever you think of their abilities) really hurt the RH depth. We'd spent a long time looking for more right handed D and now we're back in the same boat. Something definitely to target again.

[aGENT]

Yup, losing Corrado and Clendening (whatever you think of their abilities) really hurt the RH depth. We'd spent a long time looking for more right handed D and now we're back in the same boat. Something definitely to target again.

I have no problem with bottom pairing/spare guys playing on their off side if need be but IMO in your top 4, if you hope to be anything resembling a contender (which clearly, we're not this year), guys should largely be playing on their natural sides unless you've got a guy of exceptional talent that can play there.

That said, I'd take Sbisa/Bartowski on their wrong sides (or Weber on his correct side for that matter) over Corrado or Clendening. That should be a prett clear illustration of our lack of quality depth on that side though.

[Phil_314]

I'm on record being in favour of a cheap trade at the deadline or UFA signing this summer, of Schenn as a bit of a reclamation project. He addresses two large team needs IMO. He addresses both a lack of size and depth on our right side. Even as a 6/7 guy who could slot in with injuries and perhaps when playing heavier teams he'd have value to us IMO. And if he could turn it around with a fresh start, new coaches/systems, new partner etc he'd be a FANTASTIC get.

Definitely agreed with this.  While young blue-chip guys often cost lots when they're hyped, it might be best for a team like the Canucks to get an older guy whose sheen has worn off a bit but who still has potential.  In Philly he's played next to Del Zotto before and we could have a similar puck-mover in Hutton whose style would complement Luke's very well.  

The video below also shows that, to score goals, Luke has a good shot, the ability to maneuver around decently to make plays and the hustle to go hard to the net to attack and that he's not a strictly one-dimensional defensive D-man.  At 25 he just might mature and become an all-round D-man, or at worst provide very solid defensive minutes with the occasional goal/ assist as part of the youth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGA4wdLcP3A

Would even be gravy to get Brayden also as he also would fit the kind of player that I'd want the team to acquire, big guys with speed, offensive ability and physicality to crash and bang.  Maybe the brotherly pull would convince him to come to Vancouver?  

[elvis15]

Schenn is being moved by the Flyers (as their only right hand D for a long time) and not getting picked up by anyone else for a reason more than his cap hit. That doesn't help, but foot speed and decision making are concerns.

It's an area we need to improve on, and I'd love to do that with a top offensive (or future top offensive) right handed D-man.

[DownUndaCanuck]

If we could sign Johnson or Yandle in the off-season that'd really fix us up nicely. If Hamhuis is willing to re-sign cheaply then we may have some interesting decisions and a suddenly deep defence:

 

Edler - Yandle

Hutton - Tanev

Hamhuis - Sbisa

Bartkowski

Subban (still years off)

[aGENT]

Schenn is being moved by the Flyers (as their only right hand D for a long time) and not getting picked up by anyone else for a reason more than his cap hit. That doesn't help, but foot speed and decision making are concerns.

It's an area we need to improve on, and I'd love to do that with a top offensive (or future top offensive) right handed D-man.

Why not do both? Get a 20 something top 4 D and Schenn as depth, size and a 'what if' reclamation project role of the dice.

As I said earlier, we also lack depth and size, particularly in the right side.  Even as a 6th/7th D he could help us with depth for injuries and subbing in against larger, more physical teams. He could add some needed physicality, has a good shot and while not what I'd call fast, isn't slow given his size. Pair him with a more fleet of foot partner and who knows. 

[canuckistani]

can people say why they prefer/think its feasible to acquire Yandle/Eric Johnson over Byfuglien ?

 

[Bruce Boudreau]

Yandle can skate oh baby he really can. Can play the pp and contribute offence.

Byfuglien doesn't seem like a fit with his anti Canucks history.

I could see Yandle going to Boston his hometown easily also though if the Rangers don't buck up.

[Bruce Boudreau]

If we could sign Johnson or Yandle in the off-season that'd really fix us up nicely. If Hamhuis is willing to re-sign cheaply then we may have some interesting decisions and a suddenly deep defence:

 

Edler - Yandle

Hutton - Tanev

Hamhuis - Sbisa

Bartkowski

Subban (still years off)

Hamhuis looks a little slower out there. Bartowki and Hutton are the Canucks 2 best skaters right now and should be in the lineup regardless of Weber or Sbisa being there imo.

Sbisa and Weber don't bring much offensively and are not exactly an upgrade on Bartowski.

[Mackcanuck]

can people say why they prefer/think its feasible to acquire Yandle/Eric Johnson over Byfuglien ?

 

I was the one who suggested Yandle(28yrs) or Erik Johnson(27yrs) and considered Bufugly, but left him out because he will be 31 years old when he becomes a 2016 UFA, and will command a hefty long term contract 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I was the one who suggested Yandle(27yrs) or Erik Johnson(26yrs) and considered Bufugly, but left him out because he will be 31 years old when he becomes a 2016 UFA, and will command a hefty long term contract 

buf 4 years at a high cap (we have a ton of money moving out the next 4 years and can afford to with all our elc) would solidify this teams top 4 for the next while and give Canucks time to start stocking up our d pool. If he's available he's someone we should go after. 

We really just need a stop gap, 2-4 years.  Edler (29), Hutton (22) Tanev (25) give us 3 top four guys for the forseable future.  With our new core under the age of 23 by the time all of them are entering their prime, with good drafting we will have a new wave of young d prospects entering the league along side of tanev and Hutton.

Canucks have 4 picks (potentially 5 with cbj) already in the first 90 selections. With Bennings drafting record Canucks could really solidify its d prospect pool. We can really go either way and turn expering ufa's into more picks, or go after a current NHL player that fits into our line up,  might not have huge upside but someone who can fill in our top four until we have developed a replacement.  

That's 4-6 years of drafting two top 4 or higher ceiling d.  Who knows we could have already drafted that player. Subban, brisebrois tryamkin, pedan

[Mackcanuck]

If Bufugly is considered then Giordano(31yrs RHD) certainly should also be mentioned.

 CGY will not have the Cap space to sign Giordano, I think he will be moved at the Trade deadline and will be a coveted Free Agent, expect at least a minimum of 5yrs or more/ $8Mperyr or more.

Bufugly will be similar

 

[Canuck Surfer]

If Bufugly is considered then Giordano(31yrs RHD) certainly should also be mentioned.

 CGY will not have the Cap space to sign Giordano, I think he will be moved at the Trade deadline and will be a coveted Free Agent, expect at least a minimum of 5yrs or more/ $8Mperyr or more.

Bufugly will be similar

 

Giordano has already been extended. $6.75 mill for like 50 years or something... (long term, cannot recall how long...)