nucklehead Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/turkey-downs-russian-warplane-near-syria-border-moscow-denies-airspace-violation/ar-BBno0ds?ocid=spartanntp Quote Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border on Tuesday after repeated warnings over air space violations, but Moscow said it could prove the jet had not left Syrian air space. It was the first time a NATO member's armed forces have downed a Russian or Soviet military aircraft since the 1950s and Russian and Turkish assets fell on fears of an escalation between the former Cold War enemies. A Kremlin spokesman said it was a "very serious incident" but that it was too early to draw conclusions. Footage from private Turkish broadcaster Haberturk TV showed the warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it. The plane went down in area known by Turks as "Turkmen Mountain", it said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Russia needed a wake up call that they can't just do whatever they want. 200 Turkish F-16's are now smiling at Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Putins calling it a stab in the back http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/turkey-military-plane-1.3332171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 ^Better be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 10 minutes ago, aliboy said: Russia needed a wake up call that they can't just do whatever they want. 200 Turkish F-16's are now smiling at Russia. Yup. When I hear a Kremlin spokesman say "it's too early to draw conclusions", I'm fairly confident that they were in the wrong on this one. Here's the NATO tracking of the flight path (in red) showing the jet clearly going through the Turkish air space. I say good on Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Just in time for American Thanksgiving.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdatb Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Turkey disgusts me. They whine about Russia entering airspace but then they have no problems with the two pilots being murdered by Syrian rebels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Putin Has Misjudged Turkey's Erdogan Quote The details of how and why a Russian jet was shot down near the Turkish-Syrian border remain unclear, but one thing can already be said: Russian President Vladimir Putin has misjudged his Turkish counterpart and former friend, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. QuickTake Cool War According to Turkey's military, one of its F-16s fired on a jet over Turkish territory, after the plane's pilots ignored 10 warnings to leave. So the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's second-largest military is claiming to have shot down an aircraft in anger that was probably Russian, and is now "consulting" with its NATO allies. Russia's defense ministry confirmed one of its jets had crashed, but said the plane was flying in Syrian airspace at an altitude of 6000 meters when it was fired upon from the ground. Putin blamed "backstabbing" and said his country's plane was 1 kilometer (0.6 miles) inside Syria when hit. So there's a dispute. These kinds of skirmishes happened between NATO and the former Soviet Union during the Cold War, but make no mistake; this is a big deal. What comes next will be a test of maturity for all sides. European stocks slid on the news with Russia's main index down by 4 percent. By now, after flatly denying that a Russian missile brought down Malaysian Airlines MH-17 over Eastern Ukraine last year (despite a meticulous Dutch investigation), and pretending for days that there was no evidence that a bomb destroyed a Russian airliner over Egypt in October, Russia's word counts for zero in matters of aviation. But that doesn't prove it is lying on the all-important question of where its Su-24 was when it was hit. Turkey summoned Russia's ambassador on Friday to demand that Russia stop bombing Turkmen rebels in Syria, who hold territory just across the border and are openly supported by Turkey. Ambassador Andrei Karlov and his military attache were reportedly told that Turkey would "not be indifferent" to any harm that came to Turkmen civilians. In order to bomb these rebels (who are part of the Free Syrian Army, rather than Russia's proclaimed target, Islamic State), Russian and Syrian aircraft have to fly very close to Turkish airspace. So it is conceivable that Erdogan has simply decided to warn Putin off. The Turkish version of events is also plausible. Russian jets have been flirting with Turkish airspace ever since Putin began his military intervention in Syria. Turkey may just have decided enough was enough. Whichever version of events turns out to be accurate -- or even a combination of the two, in which the Russian Sukhoi had strayed into Turkish airspace and was shot down as it veered back into Syria -- it is clear that Putin has misjudged Erdogan. As one Russian report on the website Federal News Agency put it, Turkey claimed to have shot down a Russian drone in its airspace in October, shortly before Turkish parliamentary elections, and threatened that manned aircraft would face the same fate: But no one attributed any significance to these words; they were thought to be empty election rhetoric on Erdogan's part. As we can see, the Turks don't limit themselves to rhetoric. Both Putin and Erdogan are strongmen, who treat domestic politics as a scorched earth battle for power. Russia's repeated humiliation of Erdogan before his audience at home, both by bombing Turkish clients just across the border and repeatedly breaching Turkish airspace, was therefore a high-risk strategy. Putin could afford to be relaxed about Erdogan's earlier threats to stop buying Russian natural gas in retaliation: Where else would Turkey find enough gas to substitute a fifth of its energy needs? But the Russian leader should have recognized that Turkey, already host to more than 1.7 million Syrian refugees, has a lot at stake in Syria and, in Erdogan, a president who takes rejection personally. Bashar al-Assad, after all, was once a feted ally who went on vacation with Erdogan's family. When the Syrian leader ignored Erdogan's advice and mediation efforts in the face of unarmed pro-democracy protests in 2011, Erdogan took it as a personal affront and spearheaded the campaign to unseat Assad. Israel discovered something similar in 2008, when the then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert launched an invasion of the Gaza Strip, immediately after returning from a visit to Erdogan in Ankara. The two men had been discussing Erdogan's efforts to media between Israel and Syria, not an invasion of Gaza. Erdogan felt played and broke off Turkey's alliance with Israel, becoming instead one of its fiercest critics. Putin, too, was supposed to be Erdogan's friend and ally, as they faced down together U.S. and European complaints about the crushing of media freedoms and democratic institutions in their respective countries. Instead, the Russian leader has ignored his burgeoning economic and political relationship with Turkey to pursue his goals in Syria. The best way for Putin to figure out how Erdogan will respond to any further Russian moves is probably to imagine how he himself would react. The two men have a lot in common. http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-11-24/putin-has-misjudged-turkey-s-erdogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 26 minutes ago, jdatb said: Turkey disgusts me. They whine about Russia entering airspace but then they have no problems with the two pilots being murdered by Syrian rebels. This. Turkey is a huge problem. They have attacked the Kurdish Forces who were and still are trying to fight against ISIS. Turkey hasn't done enough to stop the terrorists heading over Turkey to Syria. Russia has done a lot and I mean A LOT in the war against ISIS. If anything, they're the ones who've got the mechanics to defeat ISIS. Turkey's holding them back. If there's more behind this, Turkey should immediately be removed from the NATO alliance. Although I have a lot of friends from Turkey and I totally love them as friends, I stand by my opinion on this that Turkey's been a nuisance for sometime now. Come to think of it, I think NATO are becoming bunch of goofs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Turkey is a joke. Obama is a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I cant see how this could possibly work out favorably for Turkey. Ill-advised would be an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 48 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: Yup. When I hear a Kremlin spokesman say "it's too early to draw conclusions", I'm fairly confident that they were in the wrong on this one. Here's the NATO tracking of the flight path (in red) showing the jet clearly going through the Turkish air space. I say good on Turkey. The pilot looks lost... he was literally flying in circles lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armada Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The end of the world has begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 21 minutes ago, BI3KSA- said: I cant see how this could possibly work our favorably for Turkey. Ill-advised would be an understatement. Turkey has a huge military, including 200 F-16's and American Nukes for which the US must provide the codes. They are also a member of NATO, they'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neversummer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 WWIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickjim23 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Obama dropped leaflets giving ISIS 45 minutes notice before airstrikes on Oil trucks.. He's a weakling quivering in the corner while this all goes down. I hope Putin seeks rightful revenge and bombs the hell out of the Syrian Rebels that shot the pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Lol love all the assumptions and crazy bias that pops out here. You guys are always good for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 12 minutes ago, inane said: Lol love all the assumptions and crazy bias that pops out here. You guys are always good for a laugh. Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdatb Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 43 minutes ago, aliboy said: Turkey has a huge military, including 200 F-16's and American Nukes for which the US must provide the codes. They are also a member of NATO, they'll be fine. Unless the USA was heavily involved, Russia would destroy Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tortorella Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 3 minutes ago, jdatb said: Unless the USA was heavily involved, Russia would destroy Turkey. Russia wouldnt touch turkey. As mentioned turkey is in nato. Also russia attacked ukraine so fk their opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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