Benning Linden and Willie

[Cowardrobertford]

What a dumdum post op, you must have told everyone you know of that crappy opinion base on your what much more "powerful" observation.

The crap people, there was no way we made the playoffs last year, without the improvising Willie was doing, till now.

 

[Frazzy Desjardins]

1 hour ago, Zerox said:

He is a coach that doesn't even fit the modern NHL style, and will be CANNED as soon as he fails to win:

1) Doesn't use his time out/Coaches Challenge often enough when his team is tired after consecutive penalty kill /down 1 goal

2) Doesn't know how to protect his players/ Line match against teams. He even match Sedins against a physical shutdown line at 1 point during a playoff series.

3) Plays favorite with certain players when there are better players on the depth chart that exceeds them. (IE. Vey/Weber) And keeps throwing the same combination of special teams when it doesn't work at all (IE. Power play). 

4) Doesn't recognize the specialty of his players. Players know their role? Do they know their assignment? Who to shutdown? Who takes the offensive zone faceoff? Who takes the defensive zone faceoff & coverage? Who skates the fastest? Who is the most physical?

Putting 4th line out at the last min and hope they score? What kind of strategy is that? I mean, I know you roll 4 lines...but you should be putting guys out with the best chance to score.

5) Too worried about losing/Playing not-to-lose mentality, overwork veterans/goalies. Making the same mistakes as Torts is doing. How many games did he give the back-up (Bachman) when Markstrom goes down? He overplays Miller a ton.

6) Doesn't recognize when to pull his goalie and just left the guy in dry.

There are a lot more, but these are just a few...

 

This sounds a lot like the beefs several fans had with Vigneault... after realizing that this team just isn't that good enough anymore... maybe the coaching isn't the problem...

[JamesB]

21 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said:

What a dumdum post op, you must have told everyone you know of that crappy opinion base on your what much more "powerful" observation.

The crap people, there was no way we made the playoffs last year, without the improvising Willie was doing, till now.

 

Like Coward, I don't understand the negative comments about Willie.

1. He has been successful at every level, and has a particularly good record of player development.

2. Last year the Canucks greatly exceeded expectations. The first round playoff loss to Calgary was disappointing but I think that says more about team composition than about coaching.

3. For the first month of this season the Canucks also greatly exceeded expectations. November has been disappointing but the Canucks are still technically in playoff position, which a lot better than the average expert prediction. (I am not counting CDC predictions as "expert". Sorry) And I think the Canucks have had some bad luck this -- as indicated by the very large number of 1 goal losses. There should be regression to the mean as the season progresses.

4. It is no accident young players have made more progress under Willie than they did with Torts or AV.

I think the Canucks are in an uphill battle to make the playoffs this year. But I think the problem is talent, not coaching. The Canucks are extremely thin in what is normally the prime age range of 25 to 30.

 

 

[Todd Bersnoozi]

4 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Benning is a great judge of talent.  He will rebuild this team.  The next two years with a top 10 pick each round and the canucks will be on their way a few years later.

Linden has some magic attached to him. It's true.  You can just feel it.  

Then there's Willie. He's the guy who doesn't fit.  Listen, he gets his chance for 2 or 3 years but ultimately he's not the guy. Eventually he will be let go.

Well, the only thing is that Willie D was essentiallly hand picked by JB and Trev.  The 3 of them seem to work closely together.  They were pretty unanimous in keeping Kassian in the dog house last year.  JB also seems to go out of his way (overpay) to get Willie's guys, especially last season with Linden Vey and Dorsett.  Willie will be given every chance to succeed; as u said, if the team still totally stinks in a couple years, then they might let him go.

[alfstonker]

7 hours ago, Zerox said:

And what kind of credentials were you looking for when you posted that question in the first place?

It is purely observation and comparison with the opposition's coach during their road trip.  IE John Hynes, Mike Babcock

If he reads the forum, sure. Otherwise, it is just fans talking among themselves...

No it's BS.

The OP hasn't a clue what goes into making these decisions.

To put it bluntly, unless you are THE coach working with a team, interacting with them behind closed doors and in practice; unless you have years of coaching ability at various levels which in Wiilie's case led to a Calder Cup win (almost as difficult as a SC win as you lose players to injury AND have to give up your best players to the NHL team) AND the ability to rationalise and prioritise what you are seeing on the ice, then coming on here and spouting that kind of rubbish is no more relevant than if he was blowing smoke out of his ass and calling it wisdom. 

It's embarrassing when people set themselves up to argue a coach should be dismissed based on what HE/SHE thinks about decisions he has made. Imo only a coach who has been there and understands the position at that level is fit to give an opinion worth a damn. 

To quote an old Irish proverb : "Hindsight is foresight to the gob$&!#e"

The OP has conveniently forgotten a coaching miracle Willie performed the previous season when he set a record of the 3rd winningest rookie coach in NHL history. That despite a massive amount of injuries to key players which if nothing else points to how puerile this thread topic is.

 

PS For what it's worth I love his facial expressions during the game. It says passion, commitment, and total concentration to me.

[smokes]

I honestly have no problem with Wille. He is doing as well as cen be expected with the roster that we have. Let's face it, on paper, the Canucks are realistically a non playoff team. When I look at coaches around the league, I can honestly say that WD is not among the worst in the league. Roy in Colorado is doing worse with arguably a better roster. Haskstol has effectively shown Philidelphia that there is another layer to rock bottom in the goal scoring department. Anaheim is a train wreck right now under their coach. Even Babcock and his 50 million dollars did not improve the Leafs much from last year. 

 

[ice orca]

Canucks could contend in 4-5 years? hard to forecast that. I cant see all our prospects making an impact in the NHL let alone staying in it. So far I have seen only 2-3 kids that might have a shot if in Gaunce and Shink and maybe Grenier. Subban and Cassels will have to work like madmen to even get a sniff. Boeser and Demko are along ways out 4-5 yrs out from the AHL.

[Me_]

9 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Cuz there's too much negativity on this site. Sorry neg Nelly. 

And talk of firing Desjardins in 2-3 years is positive?

you need to stay away from computers.

[Gollumpus]

10 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Benning is a great judge of talent.  He will rebuild this team.  The next two years with a top 10 pick each round and the canucks will be on their way a few years later.

Linden has some magic attached to him. It's true.  You can just feel it.  

Then there's Willie. He's the guy who doesn't fit.  Listen, he gets his chance for 2 or 3 years but ultimately he's not the guy. Eventually he will be let go.

In  4 to 5 years Canucks will contend for a cup. But not before. The current group of prospects will then be hitting their stride and the top 10 picks we get the next two years will be coming ready. 

Till then it's nice to believe in a team with a future. No worries. Enjoy the ride.

 

[RUPERTKBD]

7 hours ago, Frazzy Desjardins said:

This sounds a lot like the beefs several fans had with Vigneault... after realizing that this team just isn't that good enough anymore... maybe the coaching isn't the problem...

I was thinking much the same thing. Several of those complaints were regularly directed at AV...

...the same AV who took his team to the Cup finals the year after he was let go in Vancouver, the Conference finals the year after and who has his team first overall in the league as we speak.

It's like death and taxes. CDC will always be full of people who "observe" coaching errors and they'll always think they know a lot more than they actually do.

[alfstonker]

31 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I was thinking much the same thing. Several of those complaints were regularly directed at AV...

...the same AV who took his team to the Cup finals the year after he was let go in Vancouver, the Conference finals the year after and who has his team first overall in the league as we speak.

It's like death and taxes. CDC will always be full of people who "observe" coaching errors and they'll always think they know a lot more than they actually do.

The real tragedy is when people at the top listen to them or worse, listen to a guy who wants to sack a fine coach to save his own skin.

Time will tell if Willie proves to be a better coach than AV but imo AV was a fine coach and would have been ideal for seeing this team through transition and working with young players under a GM like JB.

However, it is what it is now and anyone expecting ANY coach to take this team in transition to the playoffs this season, never mind deep into the playoffs is hoping for a miracle.

Having said that if we stay fit, I won't be ruling it out.

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

The real tragedy is when people at the top listen to them or worse, listen to a guy who wants to sack a fine coach to save his own skin.

Time will tell if Willie proves to be a better coach than AV but imo AV was a fine coach and would have been ideal for seeing this team through transition and working with young players under a GM like JB.

However, it is what it is now and anyone expecting ANY coach to take this team in transition to the playoffs this season, never mind deep into the playoffs is hoping for a miracle.

Having said that if we stay fit, I won't be ruling it out.

I was an AV supporter when many people here were crying for his head, but I'm of the opinion that the move was probably the best thing for both him and the team.

It's certainly worked out well for the Rangers and I believe that in time, it will work out for the Canucks as well.

[hlinkas wrister]

This seems to be a " Willy isn't good enough" thread so I have a question for all- What's the deal with not letting a sophomore coach who had one of the best NHL rookie seasons in history find his way ? Why is it that everybody and their dog seems to be perfectly fine with playing a boatload of rookies and sweeping their inevitable mistakes under the rug yet Willie should be nailing it down with a lineup that is ridiculously inadequate ? Here's what I think- Willie is a second year coach in the NHL and he's learning his way (don't tell me his AHL and CHL experience should be good enough, it's not). Has he made a few mistakes ? Sure, he didn't exactly cover himself in glory in the playoffs last year but that was just as much on the players as him, and was that team really good enough to make it past the second round ? Not in a million years. And this years version of the team ? Lets be frank, with so many rookies and one of the worst d-cores I've seen in watching this team for 35 years, if Willie could get this lot in the playoffs he would be deserving of the Jack Adams. In my opinion we are at least 4 years away from being capable of doing any damage in the Western conference so lets not get our undies in a knot about Willie and let him develop along with the young lineup he's been tasked with.

[Dekey Pete]

10 hours ago, Zerox said:

And what kind of credentials were you looking for when you posted that question in the first place?

It is purely observation and comparison with the opposition's coach during their road trip.  IE John Hynes, Mike Babcock

If he reads the forum, sure. Otherwise, it is just fans talking among themselves...

To be fair Mike Babcock has just a few more years experience under his belt.  

[Dekey Pete]

3 hours ago, alfstonker said:

The OP has conveniently forgotten a coaching miracle Willie performed the previous season when he set a record of the 3rd winningest rookie coach in NHL history. That despite a massive amount of injuries to key players which if nothing else points to how puerile this thread topic is.

And doing it with a team that was pencilled to be playing golf at the end of the regular season. 

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, alfstonker said:

No it's BS.

The OP hasn't a clue what goes into making these decisions.

To put it bluntly, unless you are THE coach working with a team, interacting with them behind closed doors and in practice; unless you have years of coaching ability at various levels which in Wiilie's case led to a Calder Cup win (almost as difficult as a SC win as you lose players to injury AND have to give up your best players to the NHL team) AND the ability to rationalise and prioritise what you are seeing on the ice, then coming on here and spouting that kind of rubbish is no more relevant than if he was blowing smoke out of his ass and calling it wisdom. 

It's embarrassing when people set themselves up to argue a coach should be dismissed based on what HE/SHE thinks about decisions he has made. Imo only a coach who has been there and understands the position at that level is fit to give an opinion worth a damn. 

To quote an old Irish proverb : "Hindsight is foresight to the gob$&!#e"

The OP has conveniently forgotten a coaching miracle Willie performed the previous season when he set a record of the 3rd winningest rookie coach in NHL history. That despite a massive amount of injuries to key players which if nothing else points to how puerile this thread topic is.

 

PS For what it's worth I love his facial expressions during the game. It says passion, commitment, and total concentration to me.

Geez your getting a lot of +'s out of me lately.

What do fans really think should happen with this roster? A lot of fans say they understand that this club have to rebuild but losses mount and impatience ramps. The Twins haven't even retired yet and what happens with that hole. This team could be 3-4 years away from being competitive.

I highly doubt Desjardin is doing anything behind the bench that is not talked about with JB and TL. Willie has to walk the line of trying to stay competitive and introduce rookies into NHL play. It requires sheltering the rookies to some extent when many fans would like to see more out of them. He has to play a 20 year old sophomore at 2C for petes sake and a 19 year old at 3C. These are key positions. The poor FO% is impacting the whole team as they chase puck possession.  Combine that with a d-core that is challenged.

I am hoping that desperation does not creep in to this management no matter how much the fans squeal. Necessary pain IMHO. Also hoping that JB moves a couple of vets come March and he goes into the 2016 draft with a top 5 pick. That done and it will be a season I can live with. Enjoy watching the rookies!

[TimberWolf]

11 hours ago, The Lock said:

So what credentials do you have to know more than Willie to make you so sure of yourself?

 

You and the 4 that gave you a plus you better not have a history of criticizing anything from Torts and Gillis to the Cam Neely trade lest you be hypocrites.

 

Not defending the guy you responded to but appeal to authority responses suck because if one coach (for example) is above reproach due to his position then every coach is as well.

[TimberWolf]

Personally I think WD is a decent coach but not in the right situation. I wouldn't be inclined to take risks this early as well.

Too many losses and you're Dallas Eakins. He wants an NHL reputation and there are only so many head coaching jobs to be had.

[elvis15]

12 hours ago, Zerox said:

He is a coach that doesn't even fit the modern NHL style, and will be CANNED as soon as he fails to win:

1) Doesn't use his time out/Coaches Challenge often enough when his team is tired after consecutive penalty kill /down 1 goal

2) Doesn't know how to protect his players/ Line match against teams. He even match Sedins against a physical shutdown line at 1 point during a playoff series.

3) Plays favorite with certain players when there are better players on the depth chart that exceeds them. (IE. Vey/Weber) And keeps throwing the same combination of special teams when it doesn't work at all (IE. Power play). 

4) Doesn't recognize the specialty of his players. Players know their role? Do they know their assignment? Who to shutdown? Who takes the offensive zone faceoff? Who takes the defensive zone faceoff & coverage? Who skates the fastest? Who is the most physical?

Putting 4th line out at the last min and hope they score? What kind of strategy is that? I mean, I know you roll 4 lines...but you should be putting guys out with the best chance to score.

5) Too worried about losing/Playing not-to-lose mentality, overwork veterans/goalies. Making the same mistakes as Torts is doing. How many games did he give the back-up (Bachman) when Markstrom goes down? He overplays Miller a ton.

6) Doesn't recognize when to pull his goalie and just left the guy in dry.

There are a lot more, but these are just a few...

Wait, are we talking about Desjardins still? I'm having flashbacks to the Vigneault threads, you know, the coach we had who's taken two of the three teams he's coached to the Stanley Cup finals?

[snucks]

13 hours ago, Bo.Horvat53 said:

13 hours ago, Zerox said:

He is a coach that doesn't even fit the modern NHL style, and will be CANNED as soon as he fails to win:

1) Doesn't use his time out/Coaches Challenge often enough when his team is tired after consecutive penalty kill /down 1 goal

2) Doesn't know how to protect his players/ Line match against teams. He even match Sedins against a physical shutdown line at 1 point during a playoff series.

3) Plays favorite with certain players when there are better players on the depth chart that exceeds them. (IE. Vey/Weber) And keeps throwing the same combination of special teams when it doesn't work at all (IE. Power play). 

4) Doesn't recognize the specialty of his players. Players know their role? Do they know their assignment? Who to shutdown? Who takes the offensive zone faceoff? Who takes the defensive zone faceoff & coverage? Who skates the fastest? Who is the most physical?

Putting 4th line out at the last min and hope they score? What kind of strategy is that? I mean, I know you roll 4 lines...but you should be putting guys out with the best chance to score.

5) Too worried about losing/Playing not-to-lose mentality, overwork veterans/goalies. Making the same mistakes as Torts is doing. How many games did he give the back-up (Bachman) when Markstrom goes down? He overplays Miller a ton.

6) Doesn't recognize when to pull his goalie and just left the guy in dry.

There are a lot more, but these are just a few...

 

For as long as he coaches us, I'm not sure how long that would be though.

This seems an about right observation. Thing is though Canucks management has been messing up players for years. Eventually the team tunes out the management somewhat. They just go through the motions and try to act like players but aren't reaching their true potential. Management over the years has been brutal for the most part except for the Pat Quin era.