hearditall Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 30 minutes ago, oldnews said: Seabrook is the same size as Edler - and is out-hitting Edler by a full 30-29 margin. I think this is overstated tbh. And among the handful of examples you draw upon, there are a few retired guys, Engelland who has literally no impact, Scuderi (who has thrown 8 hits this year, 41 last year, 18 and 30 the two previous years - not a very good example tbh)... I think folks here are gripping onto a single aspect of the game and blowing it a bit out of proportion. So Edler is SAME as Seabrook???? Wish I had your lenses... I'm not a statistics guy... I go with what my eyes show me....How many cups Scuderi got???? That's what I'm talking about ... http://thehockeywriters.com/pittsburgh-penguins-reload-secret-stanley-cup-weapon/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 1 minute ago, J.R. said: Oh, for sure, his ability to skate and transition out of our zone (while bringing a somewhat physical game) is obviously why Benning nabbed him. Hit stats though... While I'm a bit surprised (AKA wrong) that Juice is at nearly double, those stats vary far too much from building to building to be overly worthwhile in forming an opinion. Never mind there's no data on the quality of the hits. I'd rather have the guy who lays say 12 of his 33 hits SOLIDLY than 6 of his 62. I love Juice but I don't recall him ever being a devastating hitter. I think defense is harder to watch and understand from the stands really. Often times, fans look for that big hit or that smooth skating, but I think there are so many little things that fans often overlook. With forwards, it's easier. Are they getting goals, do they grind, do they have finesse, etc. Defense: you have your obvious offensive and defensive D, but it seems like those defenders somewhere in the middle are a mystery to some. There seems to be a lot more intangible assets. Hamhuis a couple of years back, for example, he'd rarely make mistakes and he was considered good at what he did, but very few people seemed to be able to know "why:" he didn't make mistakes, whether that would be his positioning or whatever. For some, I bet he can be even considered a "boring" player. lol Bieksa: I think he was underrated, at least during his prime here. He's obviously deteriorated since, but he was instrumental in our run to the SCF. He was once an important piece for us. I'm still a firm believer that hits do mean a player tends to be physical. I mean look at how Clutterbuck was. You knew when he was on the ice and those hit stats proved it. It obviously varies from player to player what kind of hit it is, but still, it is a point-of-contact on another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 23 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: This hit changed the series and cost us a cup... IMO anyways. .. I think the call and suspension length changed everything.. Horton (i think it was?) must of thought he was playing pond hockey,. He actually skated into Rome's (think it was?) direction, Horton hit within 1 sec. What ever happened to playing with your head up anyway? #EveryOneIsGretzky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 10 minutes ago, hearditall said: I'm not a statistics guy... I go with what my eyes show me....How many cups Scuderi got???? That's what I'm talking about ... yeah, it's pretty clear you're 'not a stats guy' / don't know what you're talking about when you start dropping Scuderi as your example into the "we need more hits" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Here some stats... http://thehockeywriters.com/pittsburgh-penguins-reload-secret-stanley-cup-weapon/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 35 minutes ago, J.R. said: Haven't looked at the numbers but I'd wager Bartowski actually hits more (and better IMO) than Bieksa while also being MUCH faster and far better at transitioning the puck out of our zone. Bieksa may be a better fighter but most of the game isn't played with the gloves off. I'd swap Bart for Bieksa again and twice on Sundays, especially once you factor in their pay cheques. U obviously UNDER APPRECIATE TRUE WARRIORS..... But one thing is true, Every Cup team has it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandre Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 13 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said: Having Prust Cracknell and Sbisa have shown that being physical helps us win. Makes more room for the skill guys We should keep this line-up ( minus Baers) add Pedan instead of one of the bottom d we're using, Then we can set the tone. Hitting is the way of getting everyone into the game, it's respected by the skill players on the bench. See Prust tap McCann's helmet when he got off from a rough and tough shift in Minny?... and McCann smiled. That's hockey. This is my thinking. Hockey is a physical game. If you are being out hit, you are behind an important category of hockey play. It is a tool that is useful to help you win. Can you win with little hitting? Of course you can. If your team is superior in skill and puck movement. But what if your team is not clearly superior in those categories? You can use hitting to help your team be harder to play against. It can be used to slow the other team down and neutralize or disrupt the skill. Even when your team is highly skilled and moves the puck well, a few hitters helps. It allows your team to be well rounded and have the ability to play any type of game. Having a few hitters has important psychological (intimidation/morale) and physical (attrition) effects that helps a team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 39 minutes ago, J.R. said: Haven't looked at the numbers but I'd wager Bartowski actually hits more (and better IMO) than Bieksa while also being MUCH faster and far better at transitioning the puck out of our zone. Bieksa may be a better fighter but most of the game isn't played with the gloves off. I'd swap Bart for Bieksa again and twice on Sundays, especially once you factor in their pay cheques. Lol. Well I enjoyed watching the warrior BIESKA for the past 10 YEARS. Hope Bart brings you that same enjoyment for this season & ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zejono Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think LA has the right kind of style. Every player basically plays physical and can skate fast, if you have that then every game in the playoffs will be tough for the other team. Also, your players don't all need to be 30-50 goal scorers, if everybody can get 10-25 goals in the season then that skill, physicality and speed is hard to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 42 minutes ago, oldnews said: Seabrook is the same size as Edler 18 minutes ago, hearditall said: So Edler is SAME as Seabrook???? Wish I had your lenses... Derp. Yeah, you could use a new lense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: Derp. Yeah, you could use a new lense. Is that what OLDNEWS looks like. Now I understand your view on games more clearly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 1 minute ago, hearditall said: Is that what OLDNEWS looks like. Now I understand your view on games more clearly... k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 15 minutes ago, hearditall said: U obviously UNDER APPRECIATE TRUE WARRIORS..... But one thing is true, Every Cup team has it... OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 18 minutes ago, hearditall said: U obviously UNDER APPRECIATE TRUE WARRIORS..... But one thing is true, Every Cup team has it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1hwRZ6qhgI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Well this thread's gone a weird direction suddenly.... lol Instead of hitting each other, you should apply for the Canucks! I hear lack of hitting's one of their biggest problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surtur Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 18 hours ago, Stormriders said: For a long time now I have tracked the Canucks and hits per game, always feeling the Canucks do not play physical enough. To me to be successful, you need the right balance of skill, speed, and physicality. Since we peaked in 2011, our overall skill level has diminished, but at the same time, so has our physicality. Simply put, we are not a tough enough team to play against, and here I am not referring to fighting but rather making other teams less willing to play against us because of the price they will have to pay to make plays. The Canucks have trailed number of hit stats for years. I look at that each and every game, and I think it is an indicator of how soft a team we are to play against. There are very few games you will see where we are close in the hit department. Here are some stats to support my opinion: In hits per game, for the current season, we are 28th at 17.2 vs a league high of 36.4. 2015 we are 27th in hits at 19.2 vs a league high of 32.7. 2014 we were 21st at 20.9 vs. a league high of 31.8. See the trend? Year to date our highest hitter is Jake at 53, which ranks 40th in the league. Some surprises when you look at other individuals are Prust at only 12 [yes he was injured but that is only 1 hit pg], Sutter at 10 and Tanev at 6. Until we start making other teams pay the price to compete against us, or, until we become an elite skilled team [not in the near future based on our roster and prospects], we will be a mediocre team that will never contend for a cup. But tanev takes like 40 hard hits against the boards per game. He is weakening our opponents by making them expel all there energy on hitting him. That's gotta count for something.. We lost some physical players since 2011. Torres, Albert's, Rome, lappy, Ballard and recently we lost Kassian and the Dutch Gretzky. Couple that with Edler not hitting much during the regular season, hammer not using his hip check more than once every few years. And the young guys other than Virtanen not being physical. And other than horvat needing to toss his body around more the other guys are not hitters. The twins have upped the physical game since Tortorella was here but they are not going to intimidate anyone with the physical play. Dorsett and Prust need to step it up. Considering the only intimidating person on the ice is a 19 year old rookie he needs some back up. Don't even get me started on Miller that guy hasn't had a decent hit since he used his head to attack lucic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 4 hours ago, J.R. said: Haven't looked at the numbers but I'd wager Bartowski actually hits more (and better IMO) than Bieksa while also being MUCH faster and far better at transitioning the puck out of our zone. Bieksa may be a better fighter but most of the game isn't played with the gloves off. I'd swap Bart for Bieksa again and twice on Sundays, especially once you factor in their pay cheques. Bart hits more than Bieksa...lmao...Proper EYES & Stats will show you that you're WRONG... I guess Bartkowski is a Canuck so he is now a prized defence men....lmao... This guy couldn't stay in the NHL a year ago...Typical one eyed fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Hits are over rated IMO, teams with strong puck possession, get outhit all the time. Ducks focused so much last year on outhitting the Hawks, that they lost the series. In the past few years Leafs, Blues, Sens etc. has been ranked high in hits, that translated to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 34 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Hits are over rated IMO, teams with strong puck possession, get outhit all the time. Ducks focused so much last year on outhitting the Hawks, that they lost the series. In the past few years Leafs, Blues, Sens etc. has been ranked high in hits, that translated to nothing. Hits are part of defense. The scores score and the defense stop the opposing team from scoring. If you do not hit the top players such as Kane and Monahan they tend to gain confidence and walk around the defense. Hits stop them from having possession of the puck and gaining that confidence. Why do you think players such as Chara and Pronger were so effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 13 hours ago, EdgarM said: Hits are part of defense. The scores score and the defense stop the opposing team from scoring. If you do not hit the top players such as Kane and Monahan they tend to gain confidence and walk around the defense. Hits stop them from having possession of the puck and gaining that confidence. Why do you think players such as Chara and Pronger were so effective? I am not disagreeing that the hits are not part of the defense. Hawks were 29th last year and 30th in hits in 2014, 2013 and 2012. That has not stopped them from winning. If Ducks spent more time playing hockey instead of chasing hits they might have won that series. If the hit is there, go ahead and make it, but don't get out of position to make one. Big Z and Pronger were more effective due to their size/skill rather their hitting ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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