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[Report] Montreal is "all in" looking to "go for it", want to add a forward


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54 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Everything depends on where the Canucks stand at the trade deadline and whether Benning considers himself a buyer or a seller. I don't believe he'll ever classify this team as either, he hasn't in the past, and instead he'd rather make good hockey trades that help the team now but more importantly in the future (see: Kesler deal in particular). He'll be willing to move veterans in conjunction with other assets for young guys who may be able to help this team now.

Vbrata's heating up now and he may still be good for 20ish goals this season but he's very expendable and probably our best asset. Hamhuis being a pending UFA is also a great asset but we REALLY need him on our blueline or it turns to shambles as we've seen when he's out of the lineup this season. Losing Vbrata on the other hand isn't that big a deal, we essentially lose a middle-6 winger who's offensive production has easily been replaced by those around him. Furthermore, we have Shinkaruk and Gaunce lighting up the AHL at the moment, they'll be ready to step into the NHL next year I believe without a doubt. They belong in the big league and really make a couple of our current NHLers expendable.

This is what good teams like the Blackhawks do - they get free or cheap wingers (like Vbrata from UFA), get the most out of him (30 goal season last year), then trade him when he's on a down-slide and have him replaced by a kid who's been growing in the AHL for some time who steps in pretty cheaply and seamlessly fills the void.

Sure, we could sit on Vbrata and enjoy his 10ish goals after the trade deadline, then lose him for nothing, or make this sort of package and nab a valuable player for this team's future. Shinkaruk steps in to replace Vbrata, maybe scores 5 less goals. Is that worth it? I think so.

Well one thing is sure.

If we don't replace any vets we trade (or let go) with experience we are in for a life of pain.

No coach, not even Willie can keep this team in contention (next season) if we parachute 2 or 3 more rookies into it. It would go against what Linden said about playing rookies while continuing to be a winning team.

It would be different if any of these guys were top 3 drafts (indicating they are likely NHL ready) but they are not and I doubt we will sink low enough this season to get a top 3 draft either.

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15 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Well one thing is sure.

If we don't replace any vets we trade (or let go) with experience we are in for a life of pain.

No coach, not even Willie can keep this team in contention (next season) if we parachute 2 or 3 more rookies into it. It would go against what Linden said about playing rookies while continuing to be a winning team.

It would be different if any of these guys were top 3 drafts (indicating they are likely NHL ready) but they are not and I doubt we will sink low enough this season to get a top 3 draft either.

I completely agree with you, right now we've even got the balance wrong. Too many mistakes, not enough veteran skill, and it's costing the team on a nightly basis. That's why we're a fringe playoff team.

The problem is that the vets we're keeping on board aren't very good either. We have to be smart about which vets we keep, and which rookies we keep. Likewise, we need to make decisions about which rookies we get rid of and which vets we let go or trade.

Personally, I think we need to hold on to a good core of vets. That includes the Sedins, Hansen, Burrows, Prust (or Dorsett, NOT both), Miller and Edler. Hamhuis would be nice for a cheap-resign but nothing over 4M.

In the ideal world, we hold on to the good veterans, let go of the expendable ones, bring up one or both of Shinkaruk and Gaunce for next year AND sign some UFA guys who are in their prime. Our problem is no one is in their prime right now (even the Sedins will finish the season with 70 points despite this hot streak), which is understandable, but we still need to be competitive.

I'd love to sign a top-6 winger like Lucic (not necessarily him) or Okposo and a top-4 defenceman to replace the ageing Vbrata and Hamhuis, while trading Higgins and having him replaced by a rookie. That way we have a relatively steady influx of veteran skill as well as youth.

It's a very hard balance to find, the good teams don't even have it worked out, and we're very far from it, but I think if we can mould next years lineup around a mix of vets and kids we'll be good. Here's my ideal lineup for next season:

Sedin - Sedin - Lucic (or whoever, just an example)

Baertschi - Sutter - Burrows

Virtanen - Horvat - Hansen

Gaunce - McCann - Prust

Shinkaruk

 

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Hamonic (or some other top-4 RHD shutdown guy, maybe a UFA)

Sbisa - UFA

Bartkowski

 

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It's growing pains, but there's still enough support to make it feasible. More rookies will upset that balance a little, but if we're moving someone like Hamhuis and bringing in another top four D who's a little younger then it'd be fine. You have to remember our young players will have another year of experience under their belts by that point so even upgrading on our older vets with players closer to their prime will still give us a healthy amount of experience alongside players like the Sedins, Edler, etc.

Anyway, this thread is about Montreal. Short term they'll suffer with Price out for 6 weeks or so now, but they may wait until shortly before or just after the holiday roster freeze to decide what moves they want to make. If not, then the deadline could be a busy time for them trying to find the right piece.

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4 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

For sure it has legs now. As long as Willie makes questionable decisions behind the bench that gain traction in local media, it will, and Travis Green will be in consideration. Not sure why he wasn't considered initially after Tortorella's release.

 

Maybe JBTL are too smart, and knew TG would do too good of a job.  I'm wondering if they were shocked by WDs 101 pt season?  These are smart hockey people; they have to realize they need to draft high, don't you think?

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2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Linden stated (not verbatim) in an interview that given where the team is (in a retool) they need to either re-sign or get something for expiring assets. If Vrbata/Hammer don't get moved, they're being re-signed IMO.

That's a terrifying thought for a team needing the roster spots for up and coming prospects.

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2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I think it`s far more likely they're getting moved. I think that was also largely his point.

I want to agree, but this team has an Ottawa like history of holding on to vets and players for no reason and then watching them walk via free agency

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My take on this rumor for Vrbata.  The Sedin are actually carrying the Canucks and is in a battle for a playoff spot.  The question is: will the rookies become a scoring leader by the trading deadline all because of Vrbata with the chemistry with McCann?   If McCann and Vrbata develop chemistry, I would negoitate with Vrbata and offer him a year extension, rather than multi-year extension.  If that negotiation fails, and the Canucks is at least 5 points out of the playoffs, I would package Vrbata for an optional conditional draft pick and a top tier defensive prospect and a active NHLers replacement for Vrbata and if we are 10 points out, I would not ask for a NHL roster replacement but rather an additional pick or a B-level prospect..   The conditional draft pick is if the Montreal are playing in the Conference Final, the first round pick defers to 2017.  If they failed to make it to Conference Final, I would still have an optional to have the 2016 first or 2017 first, depends on what we are looking for.   The decision must be made 10 days after Montreal has played in their first conference final game.   I would wait until the trade deadline to see where we are unless Vrbata is resign through the 2016-17 season with a year extension.

 

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4 hours ago, J.R. said:

Linden stated (not verbatim) in an interview that given where the team is (in a retool) they need to either re-sign or get something for expiring assets. If Vrbata/Hammer don't get moved, they're being re-signed IMO.

This is just sensible and pragmatic thinking.  Like something someone who was the President of a multi million dollar organization would say.

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On 11/27/2015, 4:33:21, LaBamba said:

I'm getting tired of hearing this argument. You wanna know what bad asset management is? Trading away a top 6 forward and a top 4 Dman before heading into the playoffs. 

You get in and you never know what will happen, the west hasn't been this wide open in a decade. 

If we aren't in the race at the deadline fine, but that is plan B IMO. 

Take off the rose coloured glasses.  This team has nothing if the twins are not producing.  You're in denial if you think this team is built for playoff hockey lmao.

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1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Take off the rose coloured glasses.  This team has nothing if the twins are not producing.  You're in denial if you think this team is built for playoff hockey lmao.

Well, consider that sentence isn't even remotely true (they've been able to roll 4 lines since WD showed up), I'm guessing your glasses have been darkened away from reality. ;)

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20 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Well, consider that sentence isn't even remotely true (they've been able to roll 4 lines since WD showed up), I'm guessing your glasses have been darkened away from reality. ;)

Rolling 4 lines and have 4 lines producing points are 2 vastly different things

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27 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Rolling 4 lines and have 4 lines producing points are 2 vastly different things

So then, by the logic of what was originally referred to, we shouldn't be trading Vrbata at the deadline as he was 3rd in points last year and 5th in points this year despite his slow start.

I do see your point though.

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6 hours ago, HKSR said:

Take off the rose coloured glasses.  This team has nothing if the twins are not producing.  You're in denial if you think this team is built for playoff hockey lmao.

It's called being a fan of your hockey team.

I will continue too cheer for my hockey to make the playoffs until they are mathematically eliminated. 

You may also notice that I said IF they are out of the race come deadline then clearing some vets would be plan B. 

You don't pack it in Dec 1st. 

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17 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Wait a minute Alf, Since when did Green become a better option than Willie. 

You know, Willie, the guy who actually WON the Calder Cup, the guy who became the 3rd winningest rookie coach ever in the NHL. (despite horrendous injuries). The guy who was asked to take 3 rookies (two straight from the Juniors) as well as playing 2 "sophomore rookies" into the team (not one of whom was a top 5 pick) and has still managed to keep the team within touching distance of the playoffs after 24 games despite injuries to 3 of their best vets.

Wtf is wrong with CDC? Haul a newbie off the street and tell them he's young and suddenly he is winning cups or having his name hoisted into the rafters. It's a joke.

 

I thought Johnny boy made a great observation last night. Canucks have two of the youngest C's in the NHL. Desjardin is faced with a horrendous FO% that impacts the full 200'.

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10 hours ago, The Lock said:

So then, by the logic of what was originally referred to, we shouldn't be trading Vrbata at the deadline as he was 3rd in points last year and 5th in points this year despite his slow start.

I do see your point though.

His slow start has nothing to do with trading him. We are not winning the cup this year, let's advance the team so we can later.

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19 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Sedin - Sedin - Lucic (or whoever, just an example)

Baertschi - Sutter - Burrows

Virtanen - Horvat - Hansen

Gaunce - McCann - Prust

Shinkaruk

 

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Hamonic (or some other top-4 RHD shutdown guy, maybe a UFA)

Sbisa - UFA

Bartkowski

 

 I could see:

Lucic Horvat Sutter as a 2nd line.  That would be physically dominating.

McCann may be more offensive minded but that combo would be sweet.

 

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