(Proposal) Canucks - Stars

[Noble 6]

The Stars are going to be looking to make a push for the Cup this year. Most of the key members of their team have their contracts expiring sometime in the next two years. Sharp, Jamie Benn, Jordie Benn, Goligoski, Demers, Oleksiak, Jokipakka, Nemeth and Nichushkin among others need new contracts. They have a 2-year window to do some damage before the salary cap destroys them. They have been a top-5 team all year and would like to load up for a shot at the Cup. 

 

Vancouver needs to add in some good, young defense prospects to their new core. We have a solid top-9 prospects core, but pretty much nobody outside of Hutton with any good top-4 potential. We need to add more young defenseman to our organization badly, especially on the right side.

 

Vancouver has some veterans on both forward and defense that could help Dallas win now. The Stars have a good young defense prospect behind Klingberg, Jokipakka, Nemeth and Oleksiak in Honka. Both teams would benefit from a trade.

 

To DAL:

Hamhuis (30% retained)

Vrbata (40% retained)

Higgins

3rd Round Pick 2016

2nd Round Pick 2017

 

To VAN:

Honka

Hemsky (cap dump)

Moen (cap dump)

2nd Round Pick 2016

 

Cap Hit to Dallas: 8.65 million (About 200,000 in cap space post trade)

Cap Hit to Vancouver: 5.85 million (About 2.4 million in cap space post trade)

 

Why Dallas Does This:

 

Dallas adds a veteran #4/#5 defenseman, a middle-6 scorer and a bottom-6 veteran to an already strong lineup. They lose Hemsky's contracts and get an upgrade in the position as well. Higgins is easily an upgrade on Moen. Vrbata gives them more scoring depth for the Playoffs and can move up if there is an injury. He is a guy who could light it up playing with a guy like Spezza. Their lineup after the trade would be absolutely insane:

 

Benn - Seguin - Sharp

Janmark - Spezza - Vrbata

Roussel - Eakin - Nichuschkin

Higgins - Fiddler - Sceviour

 

Goligoski - Klingberg

Oduya - Demers

Hamhuis - Benn

 

Why Vancouver Does This:

 

Vancouver adds an essential piece to their re-tool. Honka is a guy that lines up perfectly with our new core. He is extremely smart with the puck offensively and defensively. He is very solid and hard to knock off the puck. Virtanen tried to hit him the WJC last year and bounced off. He isn't very tall, but that won't be a problem. He is a right handed shot that could likely play with the Canucks next season. We take Hemsky back, who can fill Vrbata's roster spot. His contract ends the same time as Burrows' does. Moen is an upcoming UFA that was thrown in for salary purposes. Our lineup would take a hit, but it would be for the better:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Sutter

Baertschi - Horvat - Hansen

Burrows - Vey - Etem

Prust - McCann - Dorsett

Virtanen, Cracknell, Hemsky

 

Edler - Tanev

Bartkowski - Biega

Hutton - Sbisa

Pedan, Weber

 

This trade would leave Vancouver with more trade options at the deadline. Hemsky and Prust can be moved for an additional pick or a decent defenseman. Virtanen could slot back in with Vey and Etem and Burrows could move down with McCann and Dorsett. Plenty of options moving forward. What do you guys think?

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

We could get more from elsewhere without having to give up some of our own picks. That Dallas 2nd rounder is essentially a third as well if they perform as expected.

I think realistically Hamhuis for Dallas' 1st rounder is the most likely option should he go there. Vrbata won't be traded there.

[TheCammer]

45 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

The Stars are going to be looking to make a push for the Cup this year. Most of the key members of their team have their contracts expiring sometime in the next two years. Sharp, Jamie Benn, Jordie Benn, Goligoski, Demers, Oleksiak, Jokipakka, Nemeth and Nichushkin among others need new contracts. They have a 2-year window to do some damage before the salary cap destroys them. They have been a top-5 team all year and would like to load up for a shot at the Cup. 

 

Vancouver needs to add in some good, young defense prospects to their new core. We have a solid top-9 prospects core, but pretty much nobody outside of Hutton with any good top-4 potential. We need to add more young defenseman to our organization badly, especially on the right side.

 

Vancouver has some veterans on both forward and defense that could help Dallas win now. The Stars have a good young defense prospect behind Klingberg, Jokipakka, Nemeth and Oleksiak in Honka. Both teams would benefit from a trade.

 

To DAL:

Hamhuis (30% retained)

Vrbata (40% retained)

Higgins

3rd Round Pick 2016

2nd Round Pick 2017

 

To VAN:

Honka

Hemsky (cap dump)

Moen (cap dump)

2nd Round Pick 2016

 

Cap Hit to Dallas: 8.65 million (About 200,000 in cap space post trade)

Cap Hit to Vancouver: 5.85 million (About 2.4 million in cap space post trade)

 

Why Dallas Does This:

 

Dallas adds a veteran #4/#5 defenseman, a middle-6 scorer and a bottom-6 veteran to an already strong lineup. They lose Hemsky's contracts and get an upgrade in the position as well. Higgins is easily an upgrade on Moen. Vrbata gives them more scoring depth for the Playoffs and can move up if there is an injury. He is a guy who could light it up playing with a guy like Spezza. Their lineup after the trade would be absolutely insane:

 

Benn - Seguin - Sharp

Janmark - Spezza - Vrbata

Roussel - Eakin - Nichuschkin

Higgins - Fiddler - Sceviour

 

Goligoski - Klingberg

Oduya - Demers

Hamhuis - Benn

 

Why Vancouver Does This:

 

Vancouver adds an essential piece to their re-tool. Honka is a guy that lines up perfectly with our new core. He is extremely smart with the puck offensively and defensively. He is very solid and hard to knock off the puck. Virtanen tried to hit him the WJC last year and bounced off. He isn't very tall, but that won't be a problem. He is a right handed shot that could likely play with the Canucks next season. We take Hemsky back, who can fill Vrbata's roster spot. His contract ends the same time as Burrows' does. Moen is an upcoming UFA that was thrown in for salary purposes. Our lineup would take a hit, but it would be for the better:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Sutter

Baertschi - Horvat - Hansen

Burrows - Vey - Etem

Prust - McCann - Dorsett

Virtanen, Cracknell, Hemsky

 

Edler - Tanev

Bartkowski - Biega

Hutton - Sbisa

Pedan, Weber

 

This trade would leave Vancouver with more trade options at the deadline. Hemsky and Prust can be moved for an additional pick or a decent defenseman. Virtanen could slot back in with Vey and Etem and Burrows could move down with McCann and Dorsett. Plenty of options moving forward. What do you guys think?

Certainly not the worst proposal I've seen. I would hope we might get a bit more for these guys though

 

[flickyoursedin]

I think there are too many pieces moving in this deal. Hamhuis is all Dallas really wants from us in that deal. Why not just have Hamhuis for the stars 1rst round pick or do Hamhuis for Lindell and a 2nd.

[Phil_314]

Could definitely simplify the deal a bit, e.g. without the redundant pick-swapping and bad contract-swapping.

That being said, those are some likely components to get moved should a deal transpire IMO.  If they're serious about going deep I could see them shedding assets (there was an article published on Defending Big D agreeing with the notion of making moves to improve their ability to defend, becoming more than just a one-line team and improving on their depth in terms of two-way guys.  It also acknowledged the backlog of young, up-and-coming defenders in their pipeline and the writer's willingness to move some of them to improve in other areas: http://www.defendingbigd.com/2016/1/18/10784036/dallas-stars-trade-rumors-patrik-nemeth-jamie-oleksiak-esa-lindell-julius-honka-defense).

Seeing as how Nill is a smart GM (attested by how he acquired Spezza and Seguin) I wouldn't be surprised if he would want to get the guys that OP mentioned.  However, I would agree with Scottish Canuck that more value should be available.

Some ideas:

Hammer (salary retained), Higgins for 2nd, Honka, Moen
(definitely reasonable return for Hammer, and a swap of cap dumps)

Vrbata (salary retained) for Hemsky, Lindell, 1st (we take some salary which we could trade should Ales do well here, get an NHL-ready left-side D and late 1st; similar to Vermette deal except we take Hemmer back in exchange for also taking a top prospect; Dallas gets top-6 scoring)          

[Noble 6]

15 minutes ago, TheCammer said:

Certainly not the worst proposal I've seen. I would hope we might get a bit more for these guys though

 

 

I'm not sure we should be expecting more for Vrbata and Hamhuis unless we throw in some of our picks. 

 

7 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

I think there are too many pieces moving in this deal. Hamhuis is all Dallas really wants from us in that deal. Why not just have Hamhuis for the stars 1rst round pick or do Hamhuis for Lindell and a 2nd.

 

Dallas is trying to enter the Playoffs with the best roster possible. That includes getting upgrades on Hemsky and Moen. It also lets them get rid of Hemsky's contract. So they add a veteran #4/#5 defenseman and upgrades over Moen and Hemsky. 

4 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Could definitely simplify the deal a bit, e.g. without the redundant pick-swapping and bad contract-swapping.

That being said, those are some likely components to get moved should a deal transpire IMO.  If they're serious about going deep I could see them shedding assets (there was an article published on Defending Big D agreeing with the notion of making moves to improve their ability to defend, becoming more than just a one-line team and improving on their depth in terms of two-way guys.  It also acknowledged the backlog of young, up-and-coming defenders in their pipeline and the writer's willingness to move some of them to improve in other areas: http://www.defendingbigd.com/2016/1/18/10784036/dallas-stars-trade-rumors-patrik-nemeth-jamie-oleksiak-esa-lindell-julius-honka-defense).

Seeing as how Nill is a smart GM (attested by how he acquired Spezza and Seguin) I wouldn't be surprised if he would want to get the guys that OP mentioned.  However, I would agree with Scottish Canuck that more value should be available.

Some ideas:

Hammer (salary retained), Higgins for 2nd, Honka, Moen
(definitely reasonable return for Hammer, and a swap of cap dumps)

Vrbata (salary retained) for Hemsky, Lindell, 1st (we take some salary which we could trade should Ales do well here, get an NHL-ready left-side D and late 1st; similar to Vermette deal except we take Hemmer back in exchange for also taking a top prospect; Dallas gets top-6 scoring)          

 

Honka would be the main asset I would like coming back. I agree that Dallas would be looking at players like this and be willing to move a young defenseman, unlike a lot of other teams. With that said, I think Honka's value is higher than some people think. If we could get him for Hamhuis and Higgins, let alone him and a 2nd, I would do it. I just don't see it as realistic. 

[oldnews]

As far as proposals on these forums go, that's a pretty well though out one imo.

It would enable them to keep Eakin at center - imo he's one of their best two way forwards and not on the wing ideally.

Vrbata does provide them another right handed sniper (in addition to Sharp who plays the opposing wing) that makes that lineup that much more deadly.

Hemsky, unfortunately has another year of term - not sure that's something this club would entertain, but it certainly sweetens it from Dallas' perspective.  Moen addition is meh - can waive him - or deal Prust for something and use him as a comparable stop-gap.

A veteran LH shutdown D like Hamhuis might also fit well in their somewhat slanted lineup.

Have always really liked Honka - would be interested in targetting him for sure, particularly given the fact he's coming in behind a guy like Klingberg - they may entertain moving him.

I'd probably lean towards removing the extra pick from our side - imo taking the two cap dumps in addition to letting go of both Hammer and Vrbata as well as retaining cap, makes adding a 3rd unnecessary.  Hamhuis and Vrbata imo are worth Honka - the rest of the deal also works fairly strongly in Dallas' cap favour - I'd be inclined to add a FC pick from Dallas' side should the re-sign either of those guys.  

But an interesting proposal imo - one that has the basics of a deal that might work for both sides.

[Noble 6]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

As far as proposals on these forums go, that's a pretty well though out one imo.

It would enable them to keep Eakin at center - imo he's one of their best two way forwards and not on the wing ideally.

Vrbata does provide them another right handed sniper (in addition to Sharp who plays the opposing wing) that makes that lineup that much more deadly.

Hemsky, unfortunately has another year of term - not sure that's something this club would entertain, but it certainly sweetens it from Dallas' perspective.  Moen addition is meh - can waive him - or deal Prust for something and use him as a comparable stop-gap.

A veteran LH shutdown D like Hamhuis might also fit well in their somewhat slanted lineup.

Have always really liked Honka - would be interested in targetting him for sure, particularly given the fact he's coming in behind a guy like Klingberg - they may entertain moving him.

I'd probably lean towards removing the extra pick from our side - imo taking the two cap dumps in addition to letting go of both Hammer and Vrbata as well as retaining cap, makes adding a 3rd unnecessary.  Hamhuis and Vrbata imo are worth Honka - the rest of the deal also works fairly strongly in Dallas' cap favour - I'd be inclined to add a FC pick from Dallas' side should the re-sign either of those guys.  

But an interesting proposal imo - one that has the basics of a deal that might work for both sides.

 

Thanks for the calm criticism/analysis.

 

Taking back Hemsky and his contract would not be ideal for Vancouver, but it is necessary for cap reasons. It also sweetens the deal like you said for Dallas. Adding Moen would be pointless, but again necessary. Him and Prust can be used as tradin chips, along with Hemsky. We can make space on our roster for Gaunce come up and for Virtanen and Cracknell to slot in more permanently. 

[BCNeil]

Its a good proposal, which is very rare around here.

I just think if Hamhuis plays well when he gets back there will be a large market for him.

Will other teams be willing to give more than Dallas?  Who knows.

But with Vrbata I don't think Dallas would really want an underperforming top 6 player. 

[TheCammer]

36 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

I'm not sure we should be expecting more for Vrbata and Hamhuis unless we throw in some of our picks. 

 

 

. 

I think some team/teams that is/are in the playoffs and feel they have a legitimate shot will find Vrbata and Hamhuis as very acceptable rental players. There is a good chance for overpayment at the deadline. We've seen it before and when Burke/Nonis were here we did it often.

[Noble 6]

12 minutes ago, BCNeil said:

Its a good proposal, which is very rare around here.

I just think if Hamhuis plays well when he gets back there will be a large market for him.

Will other teams be willing to give more than Dallas?  Who knows.

But with Vrbata I don't think Dallas would really want an underperforming top 6 player. 

 

Thanks. I try and take my time and think about proposals from both sides before I post. 

 

Regarding Hamhuis, him playing better when he returns is a possibility, but I don't think it's likely. We may still be able to get more for him, but I don't see many other teams giving up a defense prospect like Honka. That's why Dallas was my specific target.

 

With Vrbata, he is an upgrade over Hemsky. Add in the fact that he is cheaper (3 million since we retain salary) than Hemsky, and he adds some value to the deal. Even if they were the exact same calibour, getting rid of Hemsky's contract and getting a upgrade as a replacement is something they wouldn't turn away from.

[Noble 6]

2 minutes ago, TheCammer said:

I think some team/teams that is/are in the playoffs and feel they have a legitimate shot will find Vrbata and Hamhuis as very acceptable rental players. There is a good chance for overpayment at the deadline. We've seen it before and when Burke/Nonis were here we did it often.

 

That is a possibility, but I don't think we should rely on the other team overpaying, especially when making proposals. Have an idea for a fair deal, and then if it turns out to be better then great.

[TheCammer]

2 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

That is a possibility, but I don't think we should rely on the other team overpaying, especially when making proposals. Have an idea for a fair deal, and then if it turns out to be better then great.

Fair enough. I do agree your proposal was a fair one and you wouldn't want to make an overpayment proposal as the CDC tends to flame those. Still hoping we will hit more of a home run in moving these guys, if that is what we try and do.

[elvis15]

So we move all that for Honka and basically swap 2nd rounders (although we likely get the worse of the two). Why are we doing that again, and retaining so much, and taking back so much in cap dumps as well?? Just so we can get them to take Higgins off our hands?

[hammertime]

I would support this. Its a steep price to pay for essentially Honka and a years worth of overpriced vet Hemi. Buuuuut Honka is a real stud and they don't come cheep not to mention this pretty well ensures we get another stud in this years draft and we can afford the year of hemi and still make the moves we need to get better. 

[Noble 6]

 

1 hour ago, elvis15 said:

So we move all that for Honka and basically swap 2nd rounders (although we likely get the worse of the two). Why are we doing that again, and retaining so much, and taking back so much in cap dumps as well?? Just so we can get them to take Higgins off our hands?

Again, I think a lot of people undervalue Honka. It's not easy to get a young, elite, right handed defenseman on an ELC that will most likely be in your top-4 in a few years, if not already. Hamhuis' injury has hurt his value and Vrbata has not had a great year. Higgins didn't even get claimed off waivers. 

 

Also, the cap dumps don't really matter. Moen is a UFA at the end of the year. Hemsky can be traded this year, in the offseason or at the deadline next year. His contract expires after. We can waive them if it becomes a problem. 

 

Next years' draft isn't supposed to be as good as this years. This let's us move up this year, and give up a pick in the weaker year.

[Noble 6]

21 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I would support this. Its a steep price to pay for essentially Honka and a years worth of overpriced vet Hemi. Buuuuut Honka is a real stud and they don't come cheep not to mention this pretty well ensures we get another stud in this years draft and we can afford the year of hemi and still make the moves we need to get better. 

 

Exactly. Adding Honka and a defenseman from the Draft would put us in much better shape moving forward. Imagine a having two Finns on our blueline:

 

Juleovi - Honka

 

I understand the Hemsky part, but we could just trade him at the deadline as well. If nothing else, we can waive him. It's not ideal to take his contract back, but its necessary.

[Hairy Kneel]

Put Honka in with the Bowey/Theodore price comparisons...let Benning assess the cost plus ratio for each guy and go for the best value...all of this would be easier if/when Vrbata gets a hat trick.:)

[flickyoursedin]

Honka has that price tag of a recent 1rst round pick and hasn't done anything to hurt that value. I know you gotta give to get in any trade but a guy that might be easier to let go is Esa Lindell. He's a former 3rd round pick in 2012, only 21 years old, 6'3" 210 pounds and stats almost identical to that of Honka. I feel like Honka could be a tough squeeze but Lindell could be stolen and hopefully by us.

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, flickyoursedin said:

Honka has that price tag of a recent 1rst round pick and hasn't done anything to hurt that value. I know you gotta give to get in any trade but a guy that might be easier to let go is Esa Lindell. He's a former 3rd round pick in 2012, only 21 years old, 6'3" 210 pounds and stats almost identical to that of Honka. I feel like Honka could be a tough squeeze but Lindell could be stolen and hopefully by us.

 I admit I had to look him up I know nothing about this player but this is what Hockey's future has to say and there usually pretty on point.

Talent Analysis

Lindell is a big defenseman who likes to join the rush.  He has an offensive-minded style that needs to be roped-in at times and refined. Despite his size he doesn’t engage too much physically. Lindell's skating is still a bit awkward and he’s not particularly agile.  The strength of his game is jumping into the play well and making offensive reads.  Lindelll sometimes appears lackadaisical in his own end and makes questionable decisions.  He has significant skills but must continue to coordinate them into a productive two-way game.

NOT exactly a beaming review of this player. In no way am I saying your wrong. I hope the price tag would be much less to aquire him. If that were the case then great our prospect pool of D especially ones who are close to ready is abismal. So any warm bodies would be welcome.