GB5 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 57 minutes ago, Fateless said: The amount of unqualified lawyers claiming lack of concussion proves guilt on these forums is astounding. THAT'S NOT HOW INTENT WORKS. Just because a trainer deems he doesn't need to go to the quiet room DOES NOT mean that Wideman therefore had the requisite mens rea required for the 20 game suspension. That is an illogical chain of reasoning. Just because Wideman did not have a concussion does not mean he was capable of forming the requisite intent at the time of the collision. When you look at how unstable Wideman was on his feet on the way to the bench paired with his actions on the bench (completely keeled over and looking dazed) and being unaware of his collision - there is no way Wideman could have formed the proper mens rea. This WILL get appealed. The NHL is taking a hardline stance (which is their right) but that doesn't mean the length of suspension is justified under the rules. If I'm an unqualified lawyer then I'd call you an unqualified doctor. How do you know he was woozy, he may have looked a bit distressed on the bench but maybe he pulled a leg muscle, maybe he was a bit winded or maybe he p*ssed his pants, who knows but the Calgary medical staff didn't deem him to be woozy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandyellow Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 And how did Hansen get zero punishment for this??? 20 games is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyotasfan Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I watched that hit so many times and I just couldn't see an accidental " just putting my hands up to protect myself" but a very intentfull shove right between the numbers . The league got it right. Besides if your too woozy to tell an official apart from the opposition you are a danger to yourself and everybody on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said: If I'm an unqualified lawyer then I'd call you an unqualified doctor. How do you know he was woozy, he may have looked a bit distressed on the bench but maybe he pulled a leg muscle, maybe he was a bit winded or maybe he p*ssed his pants, who knows but the Calgary medical staff didn't deem him to be woozy. Fateless can't be much of a lawyer either. He presents no facts just supposition and his own observation. He looked hurt to me, not woozy but my observation is no more fact than Fateless's. The video evidence is damning so unless a judge disallowed for some reason to be entered as evidence, WIdeman is guilty as hell. A player so "woozy" he doesn't recognize an official, would not be able to make his way to the bench and he certainly would not have the coordination or ability to carry out the obvious extra shove that accompanied contact. Wideman was hurt and pi$$ed and he lashed out. I am sure he regretted it but show me a player that acts impulsively causing damage, suspension etc who doesn't regret it. The fact that he sat on the bench and didn't even try to look at eh linesman following the play also speaks volumes. Message sent by Wideman,,,answered by league and Refs union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, redandyellow said: And how did Hansen get zero punishment for this??? We'll never know. But we are discussing Dennis Wideman in this thread, not Hansen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Glad to see the league didn't buy that "I didn't mean to" bs. This must be that one time of day when the broken clock is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, TimberWolf said: The suspension is fair and I would not want to defend Wideman anyways but there is a tiny voice in my head wondering if he hit the first zebra he saw because he was clocked in the head on the play and no whistle at all. If that's the case, while you shouldn't ever hit a ref it wouldn't surprise me if players are having enough of what is being let go. Not saying this is the case but an "I wonder" Wouldn't surprise me at all: he looked angry about the non-call. Up to a point, I'd even agree with him, but that point stops well short of what he did in response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircool Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Fateless said: I didn't say Wideman was concussed, but he was clearly woozy and not thinking straight on his way to the bench. If you watch Wideman's reaction on the bench, the guy didn't even realize what he did until his teammates came over and started talking about it. I think this is the league just laying down the law (albeit incorrectly) because of the hate a lot of people feel towards the referees. I hope Wideman appeals it because I honestly don't see him intending to run over a referee on his way to the bench. Rules dictate 10 games for unintentional "abuses" and 20 games for intentional. The fact they called this intentional just doesn't seem all that supported by the circumstances in my mind. I don't understand your position, it's honestly ridiculous. So he was "woozy", whatever that means, but wasn't "woozy" enough such that he was capable of attempting to either purposely cross-check the referee / try to get out of the way or defend himself (in your opinion), but so "woozy" that he couldn't remember doing that. And he wasn't concussed... Okay... I follow. It makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 good to see burke doesn't have any residual pull any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I expect this to be appealed and then reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I think they expect an appeal. NHL hands out the big suspension to show the refs they support them with full intentions of NHLPA appealing.In the end it will be dropped to be 7 -10 games, and everyone will be happy...except for wideman Yup, if Steve Downie can get a reduction.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Suspension should be reduced but an added fine to the Flames for not sending him to quiet room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snucks Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, SvenBae said: Speculation, and less apparent than the motion of the check which was likely taken as more indicative of intent. Well he had just taken a hit and was trying to get off the ice and the linesman was in his way. While he shouldn't have done what he did; its the new way the league officials don't even try to get out of the way, yet are yelling at players to move the puck. Its kind of like they want to be noticed . The officiating has really gone down hill with refs and linesmen wanting to be obvious rather than the old way of not wanting to be noticed. Now a days they call it game management, It sure has wrecked the game. along with the long TV time-outs. In any case Wideman shouldn't of cross checked the linesman who was not paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 20 games seems like a bit much, but as that's what protocol dictates, I'm all for it. I don't buy that it was unintentional. I think almost anyone would conclude from watching the video that it was intentional. His lack of care after the hit and the fact that he consciously brought his arms up for the hit strongly imply to me that he knew what he was doing when he went over there. I suspect he probably almost immediately regretted it, knowing there'd be a harsh punishment, but by that point, it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Wish it was the rest of the season instead. I don't buy the sob story for one sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Warranted or not this is probably going to sink any hope the Flames had of turning things around if the suspension isn't reduced quite a bit. He's a big piece for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Warranted or not this is probably going to sink any hope the Flames had of turning things around if the suspension isn't reduced quite a bit. He's a big piece for them. Most Flames fans would disagree with you. They welcome the suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 No way to prove intent. The NHL will defend it's little buddy official though. Wideman didn't really shove the ref. What I saw was that within seconds of realizing he was going to be in contact he braced so the contact wasn't bad. Yes, he initiated the contact but that's what you do. Anyone who has played a contact sport should know that. Wideman was also skating much faster than the ref and he is much heavier. Naturally he has much more momentum so he sent the ref flying. It would have happened if he just bumped into him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Delta76 said: No way to prove intent. The NHL will defend it's little buddy official though. Wideman didn't really shove the ref. What I saw was that within seconds of realizing he was going to be in contact he braced so the contact wasn't bad. Yes, he initiated the contact but that's what you do. Anyone who has played a contact sport should know that. Wideman was also skating much faster than the ref and he is much heavier. Naturally he has much more momentum so he sent the ref flying. It would have happened if he just bumped into him too. You need to clean your glasses and watch the video several more times. There was a distinct shoving motion with Wideman's stick into the back of the neck and shoulders of the linesman. And that is exactly what those responsible for handing down discipline in this situation saw. "Bracing for contact"........LMFAO!!! I don't always agree with the NHL and disciplinary measures handed down but this time they got it absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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