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[Discussion] Is Benning playing his cards right?


Bobby_Lu1ngo

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I've been thinking about some of the things Benning has said over the past year and specifically more recently and have to say I'm not sure he is executing very well. 

Holds on to richardson and matthias at last years deadline when he should have moved them.

Moves lack (could have been miller leaving mor cap) and bieksa for lower picks than he thought he would get admittedly.

Brings in prust and bartkowski, reups weber, all ufa at seasons end. Fails to find trading partner for any so far although still has a few weeks. Add higgins to the list too. 

Failing to execute on these smaller moves still makes a difference in my opinion.

Most recently he has said they are not buyers but hasnt said he will be a seller either. Priority being he wants to make the playoffs for young guys development and that trumps everything else. Is this a safe approach to take? Is it better that they make the playoffs barely and get manhandled immediately? Would that teach them more than missing the playoffs altogether and learning that missing the playoffs can be the difference of losing a few games throughout the season that should have been wins and slipped away by effort alone. Would that not be a better lesson? Would it not be better for them to be watching the playoffs on tv and thinking what could have been if only they had tried a little harder. Would it not be better to have them feel it and know they never want to be on the outside looking in again? Amidst this having the opportunity to potentially draft a top 5 cornerstone player?

I understand pleasing ownership but publically saying this when we are clearly missing the playoffs will fuel the fire for those that are on the do all you can to make the playoffs train. Will ownership look at it like he failed to make the playoffs when that was what he was trying to accomplish and at the same time failing to make the trades for the future. Essentially landing in the middle and therefore accomplishing neither. A huge part of 2011 happening was on the back of a terrible season that led to us getting the sedins. We spent years meddling on the brink of the playoffs and never coming out with cornerstone players besides kesler as a late 1st.

I believe that this deadline is going to be a very important part of Bennings future here. I dont think if he doesnt make trades of our vets and we miss the playoffs by a few spots he will be fired this summer but it will be something that will be on his record as a failure shortening the leash in the next few seasons.

He has made a few trades such as baertschi and sutter that i think were very good trades. Even Kesler deal was decent with all things considered. So this is not just to roast him but more to point out the importance of this moment in time towards the future of the team. The potential is there that by the end of the summer we could set up our future and team for next season to be back in the hunt with the right moves. Can Benning make it happen?

What are others thoughts?

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You won't know if benning is doing the right things for 3-4 years.

 

What is he doing right now?  

  • Keeping the team competitive
  • Shedding non productive vets
  • Trying to keep cap compliant while doing it
  • Bringing in youth while still competing
  • Not intentionally tanking (visibly intentionally)
  • Drafting need and trying to build Utica

What else do you want from him?  If he sells it all now he's a loser and admitting the teams a loser.  if he loads up he's a loser and is showing he has no clue what this team needs.

 

He cannot win period no matter what he does.  Which is why as GM he literally needs to ignore people and do what is going to make this team successful long term.  not just RIGHT now

 

And if we don't like it?  Too bad stop watching and hop off the bandwagon.  3 to 4 years minimum for what GMJB is doing to seriously take root.  You can be patient and accept it, or you can whine about it.  either way he's not listening

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I'd say wait till the deadline , if the team keeps sinking and the appropriate players don't get moved then I will be worried, at this point keeping vrbata makes absolutely no sense when a guy like shinkaruk could really benefit from some nhl experience.

 

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Holding onto players longer than he logically should can't be placed on his shoulders alone.  Ownership wants this club to be in the post-season every year and i'm sure they frown on anything that will theoretically lower the teams chances at those 2 home games and the inevitable first round exit.

In my opinion, Benning has done relatively well at this 'phantom rebuild' considering how he must tip-toe around the franchise philosophy of staying competitive even though the writing has been on the wall for years with Vancouver's overall declining performance.

When it will really get ugly is when the twin's retire....then comes a whole new level of pain.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, BanTSN said:

The moves and non-moves that a NHL GM performs is part of the sports entertainment package, as it provides discussion for the fans.

The goal for the Canucks is to win a Stanley Cup, and while it doesn't look good now, there is always hope.

I agree but the teams that go far unexpectedly are generally chalked full of grit and character. I think the roster has even less of a playoff style than regular season. Our road to the cup would involve beating one of either Dallas Chicago or LA on round one. Then either Anaheim SJ or Dallas Chicago in rounds 2 and 3. Then likely capitals or rangers in the finals. I cant see us winning against any of them. Heck we couldnt even beat calgary last year which was a blessing of a first round opponent.

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22 minutes ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

I've been thinking about some of the things Benning has said over the past year and specifically more recently and have to say I'm not sure he is executing very well. 

Holds on to richardson and matthias at last years deadline when he should have moved them.

Moves lack (could have been miller leaving mor cap) and bieksa for lower picks than he thought he would get admittedly.

Brings in prust and bartkowski, reups weber, all ufa at seasons end. Fails to find trading partner for any so far although still has a few weeks. Add higgins to the list too. 

Failing to execute on these smaller moves still makes a difference in my opinion.

Most recently he has said they are not buyers but hasnt said he will be a seller either. Priority being he wants to make the playoffs for young guys development and that trumps everything else. Is this a safe approach to take? Is it better that they make the playoffs barely and get manhandled immediately? Would that teach them more than missing the playoffs altogether and learning that missing the playoffs can be the difference of losing a few games throughout the season that should have been wins and slipped away by effort alone. Would that not be a better lesson? Would it not be better for them to be watching the playoffs on tv and thinking what could have been if only they had tried a little harder. Would it not be better to have them feel it and know they never want to be on the outside looking in again? Amidst this having the opportunity to potentially draft a top 5 cornerstone player?

I understand pleasing ownership but publically saying this when we are clearly missing the playoffs will fuel the fire for those that are on the do all you can to make the playoffs train. Will ownership look at it like he failed to make the playoffs when that was what he was trying to accomplish and at the same time failing to make the trades for the future. Essentially landing in the middle and therefore accomplishing neither. A huge part of 2011 happening was on the back of a terrible season that led to us getting the sedins. We spent years meddling on the brink of the playoffs and never coming out with cornerstone players besides kesler as a late 1st.

I believe that this deadline is going to be a very important part of Bennings future here. I dont think if he doesnt make trades of our vets and we miss the playoffs by a few spots he will be fired this summer but it will be something that will be on his record as a failure shortening the leash in the next few seasons.

He has made a few trades such as baertschi and sutter that i think were very good trades. Even Kesler deal was decent with all things considered. So this is not just to roast him but more to point out the importance of this moment in time towards the future of the team. The potential is there that by the end of the summer we could set up our future and team for next season to be back in the hunt with the right moves. Can Benning make it happen?

What are others thoughts?

1st point. We were coming off a 100 point season and we're expected to go deeper than the 1st round. If we did, those 2 might still be here.

2nd point. Lack is not a #1 goalie. Not then, not now. Miller is the safer bet. The consideration was NEVER Miller or Lack, it was Lack or Markstrom.

3rd point. Prust started out very well. Bartkowski was a great signing when you consider at the time he was signed, Bieksa was gone and no one even knew Hutton existed. Weber was given a 1 year deal after showing he has offense to offer. He earned that extra look.

It's easy to criticize in retrospect but when all of those guys were acquired, Hutton was an unknown. Virtanen and McCann were unknowns. No one expected Prust and Higgins to disappear. And Benning has had to make moves on the fly to improve the team and cut losses.

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7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You won't know if benning is doing the right things for 3-4 years.

 

What is he doing right now?  

  • Keeping the team competitive
  • Shedding non productive vets
  • Trying to keep cap compliant while doing it
  • Bringing in youth while still competing
  • Not intentionally tanking (visibly intentionally)
  • Drafting need and trying to build Utica

What else do you want from him?  If he sells it all now he's a loser and admitting the teams a loser.  if he loads up he's a loser and is showing he has no clue what this team needs.

 

He cannot win period no matter what he does.  Which is why as GM he literally needs to ignore people and do what is going to make this team successful long term.  not just RIGHT now

 

And if we don't like it?  Too bad stop watching and hop off the bandwagon.  3 to 4 years minimum for what GMJB is doing to seriously take root.  You can be patient and accept it, or you can whine about it.  either way he's not listening

Get off the bandwagon... really? When I am advocating making future moves despite the pain of losing right now? Do you know the meaning of a bandwagon? I've been watching the team for 25 years despite many losing years stuck by spending lots of money supporting them bud.  So you can get bent in that respect.

Whining and questioning their approach is also two different things. Im also quite aware that posting on cdc doesnt send direct messages to GMJB's inbox. Too funny man.

 

Do you think that Arizona is feeling bad by admitting they were losing last year in an off year. Im sure they are quite alright admitting they were losers when they walked into this year with duclair and strome as well as quite a few stellar picks while bringing back their vets and sitting in contention with a good mix of young guys. I disagree on that.

I do appreciate your input on what he is doing right though. I agree tthat its nice to see he will do what he has to for underperforming players. Vets getting a shorter leash than young guys as they are expected to do more.

 

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19 minutes ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

I've been thinking about some of the things Benning has said over the past year and specifically more recently and have to say I'm not sure he is executing very well. 

Holds on to richardson and matthias at last years deadline when he should have moved them.

Moves lack (could have been miller leaving mor cap) and bieksa for lower picks than he thought he would get admittedly.

Brings in prust and bartkowski, reups weber, all ufa at seasons end. Fails to find trading partner for any so far although still has a few weeks. Add higgins to the list too. 

Failing to execute on these smaller moves still makes a difference in my opinion.

Most recently he has said they are not buyers but hasnt said he will be a seller either. 1. Priority being he wants to make the playoffs for young guys development and that trumps everything else. Is this a safe approach to take? Is it better that they make the playoffs barely and get manhandled immediately? Would that teach them more than missing the playoffs altogether and learning that missing the playoffs can be the difference of losing a few games throughout the season that should have been wins and slipped away by effort alone. Would that not be a better lesson? Would it not be better for them to be watching the playoffs on tv and thinking what could have been if only they had tried a little harder. Would it not be better to have them feel it and know they never want to be on the outside looking in again? Amidst this having the opportunity to potentially draft a top 5 cornerstone player?

I understand pleasing ownership but publically saying this when we are clearly missing the playoffs will fuel the fire for those that are on the do all you can to make the playoffs train. Will ownership look at it like he failed to make the playoffs when that was what he was trying to accomplish and at the same time failing to make the trades for the future. Essentially landing in the middle and therefore accomplishing neither. A huge part of 2011 happening was on the back of a terrible season that led to us getting the sedins. We spent years meddling on the brink of the playoffs and never coming out with cornerstone players besides kesler as a late 1st.

2. I believe that this deadline is going to be a very important part of Bennings future here. I dont think if he doesnt make trades of our vets and we miss the playoffs by a few spots he will be fired this summer but it will be something that will be on his record as a failure shortening the leash in the next few seasons.

He has made a few trades such as baertschi and sutter that i think were very good trades. Even Kesler deal was decent with all things considered. So this is not just to roast him but more to point out the importance of this moment in time towards the future of the team. The potential is there that by the end of the summer we could set up our future and team for next season to be back in the hunt with the right moves. Can Benning make it happen?

What are others thoughts?

Some good questions.

1. I think that we have to keep in mind what was said when this "thing" started 2 years ago.  It's all about drafting and developing.  There are no shortcuts.  Trading for players in their prime and signing free agents gets really expensive really fast.

Recently, in an interview, Benning said that he felt that the experience gained by making the playoffs is invaluable.  He thinks that it is better than even being in the playoff race.  It is do or die and is the best kind of experience even if you get kicked in the teeth and bounced in 4 straight.  Making the playoffs is about development.  Not about money.

I'm beginning to think that Benning is a develop guy more than a draft guy.  He doesn't seem to care if he picks 20th or 10th.  He is drafting 17 year olds and he has 8 years before they hit their prime.  In 8 years, he thinks that if he picks wisely, he can turn them into good players.

2.  I agree, the next 6 months are going to be very important.  On the one hand, key older vets who are under performing are being shipped out and being replaced by young players who are ready to play.  This is the result of the internal competition system that Benning has set up (and is part of his development tactics).  This is the year where more drafted players like Gaunce, Grenier, Tryamkin, Rodin and Shinkaruk are going to make a push to play on the Canucks.  Also, signed and traded for prospects like Vey, Kenins, Zalewski, Pedan, Biega and Fedun are also making cases for themselves. 

Benning has purposely set things up so that many of the roster players are on expiring contracts.  This is so they can be easily traded and replaced if other players out compete them.  Prust and Weber are 2 such players.  Higgins and Burrows are on the hot seat and Benning may be asking for buy outs.  Ownership won't like it so he doesn't take it lightly.

 

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3 minutes ago, Boddy604 said:

1st point. We were coming off a 100 point season and we're expected to go deeper than the 1st round. If we did, those 2 might still be here.

2nd point. Lack is not a #1 goalie. Not then, not now. Miller is the safer bet. The consideration was NEVER Miller or Lack, it was Lack or Markstrom.

3rd point. Prust started out very well. Bartkowski was a great signing when you consider at the time he was signed, Bieksa was gone and no one even knew Hutton existed. Weber was given a 1 year deal after showing he has offense to offer. He earned that extra look.

It's easy to criticize in retrospect but when all of those guys were acquired, Hutton was an unknown. Virtanen and McCann were unknowns. No one expected Prust and Higgins to disappear. And Benning has had to make moves on the fly to improve the team and cut losses.

Alright mr Hockey,

point 1 like eons ago even though only year out.Jb gutted that team

point 2 those are to hindsight guys saying this,it has been ongoing debate from the get go by that group.

point 3 will not even go there at this time does not matter what you think or say on that one either a core of fans ? From get go also

Not true of summary either read past on all three ,Hutton,Vrtanen and McCan,JB was saving face on all three as he dismantled last years squad an was just buying time to maintain fan interest and base.Virts was gonna stick no matter what,Hutton had very real chance out of college ,and McCann beat Vey for his spot.

the two vets ,injury and age beat them down no one is saying it was really bad it was inferior patch of vets to start with .

 

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32 minutes ago, Industrious1 said:

Ownership wants this club to be in the post-season every year and i'm sure they frown on anything that will theoretically lower the teams chances at those 2 home games and the inevitable first round exit..

 

 

Having had a chat with Mr Aquillini in the past, I can tell you he wants to bring a cup to Vancouver and he is aware that his team's value is much higher as a cup contender than as a perennial cusp team. He is no dummy with unrealistic expectations, he knows hockey and understands that team's need star players to be the face of the franchise. He knows where those players come from.

While he would like the team to be in the playoffs every year, he does want the cup and understands what is needed.

FYI, if the Nucks miss the playoffs, the team doesn't have to contribute as much to the other financially stressed teams, over 50 mil in the last 6+years, so missing the playoffs costs a lot less than some would think.

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I think at this point they have to face reality. We're sitting 24th overall and 5 points out of dead last in the league with the second least number of wins (gottamn loser points). You think any owner is happy with his team missing the playoffs? It's time to call a spade a spade and just admit that we're not good enough for the playoffs. It's time to sell vets on this team, especially ones on expiring contracts and move on. Enough is enough, take the high draft pick and rebuild for the future.

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JB is doing fine. More pro's than con's, and nobody can do only good things as GM (if you're not living up in the clouds)...

The team's much younger, more exciting than for a long time. Just relax, a rebuild takes time! In two years we have a darn good 2nd line with the Sedins and a new first, with good young goalies. 

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8 minutes ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

Get off the bandwagon... really? When I am advocating making future moves despite the pain of losing right now? Do you know the meaning of a bandwagon? I've been watching the team for 25 years despite many losing years stuck by spending lots of money supporting them bud.  So you can get bent in that respect.

Whining and questioning their approach is also two different things. Im also quite aware that posting on cdc doesnt send direct messages to GMJB's inbox. Too funny man.

 

Do you think that Arizona is feeling bad by admitting they were losing last year in an off year. Im sure they are quite alright admitting they were losers when they walked into this year with duclair and strome as well as quite a few stellar picks while bringing back their vets and sitting in contention with a good mix of young guys. I disagree on that.

I do appreciate your input on what he is doing right though. I agree tthat its nice to see he will do what he has to for underperforming players. Vets getting a shorter leash than young guys as they are expected to do more.

 

25 years is great, let me know when you get your heart broken watching King brodeur shelled by the Islanders.  Just because you're a fan doesn't mean much, you can either sit back and watch the show or go find something else to occupy your time.  Thems facts my man.  Complaining about it won't change things

 

The first 5 paragraphs of your opening statement are critiques and whinges about what he's done.  no positives.  Like at all, every trade/signing etc.  Just my take on it

 

Never said he reads cdc, just said he needs to not listen.  Which is true, listening to TMZ 1040 or forums like this would set his hair on fire and give him an inferiority complex

 

An off year?  Barring 09/10, 10.11 and 11,12 they've been a perennial loser  Their off season as you call it is an actual average.  They also found a dance partner to trade Yandle too which net them Duclair to go along with Domi, this year they'll draft top 10 again.  Not an off year a normal year.  You can disagree that's fine, but they average 86.4 points per season since entering the league.

 

Taking over as GM and knowing the amount of fat that has to be cut away does not make it easy for the guy, he had to deal with Kassian, had to deal with kesler, has to deal with higgins and then admitting his mistakes with Prust and Weber which he did admirably.  He has to introduce rookies while keeping Utica viable and allow Gaunce and Shinkaruk to simmer, deal with 29 other GMs who don't want to trade with him AND appease a fan base who want a cup or a 1st overall pick no in between is good enough.

 

Is Benning playing his cards right?  Who knows, 3 to 4 years and we'll have a MUCH better idea, at which point someone will start a thread asking what he really did because Horvat Gaunce Markstrom, Shinkaruk Grenier Subban Cassels etc were all Gillis picks and that Benning's guys are still in the NCAA/AHL/CHL or in their first year and not performing while simultaneously complaining about whichever trade he made to start the season and how Lucic's contract is complete crap and he's not worth the money he's getting for 3rd line production.

 

How can we tell if he's playing his proverbial cards right after 1 and 1/2 seasons?  I'd say he's doing admirably myself

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I think he's playing his cards pretty well actually.  As in any card game every card has different values at different times.  Sometimes it's better to play a 10 than an ace, sometimes it's better to play a 5 instead of a 10 and an A.  At the time of the transaction it looks positive.   As time develops situations change, and re has to reshuffle his hand.  And every gm has a hand of their own, the variable of the results of the players actions dictate how all hands need to be shuffled and played, all while having a system of rules to limit stacking of the hands, ensuring even distributions of the results.  

Try it.  Dare ya.  

I think he's making good strides forwards, promising just enough hope to sell the product, and knowing full well his team is gaining experience, the fans are learning the transition of cheering for a new generation of players, and we are going to be in the running for a roster changing pick out of the top 4-5 kids available in this next draft.   

2011 is dead, this team is getting a transfusion of epic porportions, while players like the sedins, Hansen and burrows, who all bleed Canuck blue, show these kids what it means to be a Canuck.   Sedins teach class and work ethic, community involvement, while Hansen and burrows teach tenacity, drive and humility.   As tough as this transition is, I love watching them shows signs of what be.  This will not be an Oilers rebuild, because we have leadership with heart.  Benning, linden and willie care. 

This is the makings of a championship team.  I'm just glad Benning is this time building a team, that we want to see win in this building. 

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