[Discussion] Is Benning playing his cards right?

[Kelly Green]

starting the season with this defense makes me believe the plan all along was to compete for a lottery pick , not for a playoff spot

hopefully he can talk edler into waiving at the deadline as well as moving out expiring contracts too

 

draft day and july 1 are going to be the 2 biggest days of the year for canucks fans this year , and i am really looking forward to that !  :-)

[Quoted]

We as fans also have no visibility into the deals he tries to make but don't come to pass due to market value or other reasons. He may be trying to move certain players but with no interest from other teams. Stating the obvious a bit though. 

[Winter Soldier]

1 hour ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

Holds on to richardson and matthias at last years deadline when he should have moved them.

Moves lack (could have been miller leaving mor cap) and bieksa for lower picks than he thought he would get admittedly.

ROFL. No one was going to pay anything higher than a sixth for a fourth line center and a third liner who massively overachieved last year. Keep dreaming.

Lack and Bieksa aren't that good and got what they were worth. Keep dreaming.

[5nothincanucksohno]

1 hour ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

I've been thinking about some of the things Benning has said over the past year and specifically more recently and have to say I'm not sure he is executing very well. 

Holds on to richardson and matthias at last years deadline when he should have moved them.

Moves lack (could have been miller leaving mor cap) and bieksa for lower picks than he thought he would get admittedly.

Brings in prust and bartkowski, reups weber, all ufa at seasons end. Fails to find trading partner for any so far although still has a few weeks. Add higgins to the list too. 

Failing to execute on these smaller moves still makes a difference in my opinion.

Most recently he has said they are not buyers but hasnt said he will be a seller either. Priority being he wants to make the playoffs for young guys development and that trumps everything else. Is this a safe approach to take? Is it better that they make the playoffs barely and get manhandled immediately? Would that teach them more than missing the playoffs altogether and learning that missing the playoffs can be the difference of losing a few games throughout the season that should have been wins and slipped away by effort alone. Would that not be a better lesson? Would it not be better for them to be watching the playoffs on tv and thinking what could have been if only they had tried a little harder. Would it not be better to have them feel it and know they never want to be on the outside looking in again? Amidst this having the opportunity to potentially draft a top 5 cornerstone player?

I understand pleasing ownership but publically saying this when we are clearly missing the playoffs will fuel the fire for those that are on the do all you can to make the playoffs train. Will ownership look at it like he failed to make the playoffs when that was what he was trying to accomplish and at the same time failing to make the trades for the future. Essentially landing in the middle and therefore accomplishing neither. A huge part of 2011 happening was on the back of a terrible season that led to us getting the sedins. We spent years meddling on the brink of the playoffs and never coming out with cornerstone players besides kesler as a late 1st.

I believe that this deadline is going to be a very important part of Bennings future here. I dont think if he doesnt make trades of our vets and we miss the playoffs by a few spots he will be fired this summer but it will be something that will be on his record as a failure shortening the leash in the next few seasons.

He has made a few trades such as baertschi and sutter that i think were very good trades. Even Kesler deal was decent with all things considered. So this is not just to roast him but more to point out the importance of this moment in time towards the future of the team. The potential is there that by the end of the summer we could set up our future and team for next season to be back in the hunt with the right moves. Can Benning make it happen?

What are others thoughts?

Totally disagree with respect to Benning's so called mistakes, those moves are all fillers/space holders and geared towards developing the players they view as the team's future. Lack was not part of the long term future plan...Markstrom is. Guys like Miller, Bart, etc don't necessarily win the team a lot of games but they keep the team in games i.e. it allows the young guys to play on a competitive, albeit, non-playoff team. 

Ultimately, it is the best of both worlds, the young guys play some competitive hockey in the top league, and the team gets higher draft picks. Benning will get it done, he is doing a good job of building long term stability.

[aliboy]

I'm of the opinion that we could trade Vrbata, Miller and Hammer at the deadline and be better right away, if we get a couple of good young players/prospects back in those deals.

[flickyoursedin]

I think the only thing that kinda sucked was holding onto Matthias and Richardson. It could of been another 3rd and 4th round pick. However we did make the playoffs and you don't see playoff teams weakening their roster to add picks. I think we'll see how he does this trade deadline as the playoffs are highly unlikely for this club. If he can't get something for Hamhuis and Prust then I'll question him. What most fans don't like is they view our players as more than they're worth on the market and then when trades happen they're like "That's it?!". I questioned the Kassian trade but I was quickly proved wrong by JB.

[Cromeslab]

Too early to tell if he's playing his cards right,We will have a better idea after the trade deadline and Draft this summer.

[Honky Cat]

I don't think you can fault Benning at all....The seeds of the demise of this team today goes way back to 2005 to 2011 where no impact players were drafted.( our elite years)..There's a gaping hole in the Canuck lineup of players who should be in their prime years.

Theres no easy fix...drafting well ( which Benning has done..IMO) is the only sure fire way out of the cellar...Signing free agents can be iffy,they usually cost a lot and don't really deliver (usually after a couple of seasons their bloated salaries become a hinderance),...A bit of a waste for a rebuilding team ..IMO.

 

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

If Benning doesn't move the pending UFA's Hammer and Vrbata then I hope he is canned in two years. 

PIPE DREAMS PIPE DREAMS! is the term when it comes to our current prospect pool. The two Russians, well Tykramin has how many points in the KHL? Another shut down guy? What's the use of Sbisa then ?Pedan another tough shut down guy ? The problem with this team since 2011. Benning has to fix the defence and the hockey gods! hurray! have given him a chance to move the two veterans I mentioned to get a decent prospect in return! BUT Benning believes this team can make the playoffs? okay cool, maybe they can Avlanche are inconsistent team and Minnesota looks lost, but what will they do when they make the playoffs?

so they get eliminated in round 2 or 1, it will hurt because a team should always build for the FUTURE not the present. We have given the veterans how many chances to win a cup? Benning should of watched the Flames man handle the Canucks' defence last year, but instead he was over-seas watching young players? MAYBE, that's what has screwed up his assessment of his team

The bottom line. Our prospect pool is super hyped and has shown nothing on a professional stage. Hunter Shinkurak is probably the only guy that can maybe be a gem, eg a 1st line player and that again is wishing. We need more prospects, so we have a better chance at getting a gem, which our prospect is missing because its full of 2nd line guys. No real proven stud at the back end either. So yeah lets give Benning four years, but I guarantee you one thing in four years when we see the players we missed out on due to greed by management for playoffs it will sting. This years top 5 has some real gems in it, but like always we will miss that cue. 

 

[chickenman92]

2 hours ago, CeeBee51 said:

We'll know after the trade deadline.

Would anyone be surprised if this is Benning on deadline day: 

"We had a few things on the table, but we felt it was more important for the kids to be in an environment where we're trying to win and field the best team. Right now we're only 6 points out, and when you're that close, you don't throw in the towel and move vets. We feel trading guys would have sent the wrong message to the kids that you pack it in when things don't go as planned and that's not the kind of culture we want to build here."

[alfstonker]

Jeez, all these panic threads. I hope I never end up in a foxhole with any of you guys.

You call out half the team and the management but the real quitters are to be found on CDC imo. If it's true, fans get the team they deserve, we are certainly in for a tough time.

Go Canucks Go!

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

If Benning doesn't move the pending UFA's Hammer and Vrbata then I hope he is canned in two years. 

PIPE DREAMS PIPE DREAMS! is the term when it comes to our current prospect pool. The two Russians, well Tykramin has how many points in the KHL? Another shut down guy? What's the use of Sbisa then ?Pedan another tough shut down guy ? The problem with this team since 2011. Benning has to fix the defence and the hockey gods! hurray! have given him a chance to move the two veterans I mentioned to get a decent prospect in return! BUT Benning believes this team can make the playoffs? okay cool, maybe they can Avlanche are inconsistent team and Minnesota looks lost, but what will they do when they make the playoffs?

so they get eliminated in round 2 or 1, it will hurt because a team should always build for the FUTURE not the present. We have given the veterans how many chances to win a cup? Benning should of watched the Flames man handle the Canucks' defence last year, but instead he was over-seas watching young players? MAYBE, that's what has screwed up his assessment of his team

The bottom line. Our prospect pool is super hyped and has shown nothing on a professional stage. Hunter Shinkurak is probably the only guy that can maybe be a gem, eg a 1st line player and that again is wishing. We need more prospects, so we have a better chance at getting a gem, which our prospect is missing because its full of 2nd line guys. No real proven stud at the back end either. So yeah lets give Benning four years, but I guarantee you one thing in four years when we see the players we missed out on due to greed by management for playoffs it will sting. This years top 5 has some real gems in it, but like always we will miss that cue. 

 

Damned rights hyped prospects.

 

How's Bo-Sang doing again Mr. Knee Jerk Reaction?

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Damned rights hyped prospects.

 

How's Bo-Sang doing again Mr. Knee Jerk Reaction?

Still better then Weber, Mr Hippy 

[JAY JAY]

3 hours ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

Get off the bandwagon... really? When I am advocating making future moves despite the pain of losing right now? Do you know the meaning of a bandwagon? I've been watching the team for 25 years despite many losing years stuck by spending lots of money supporting them bud.  So you can get bent in that respect.

I have a Zippo lighter older than that.

[JAY JAY]

24 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Jeez, all these panic threads. I hope I never end up in a foxhole with any of you guys.

You call out half the team and the management but the real quitters are to be found on CDC imo. If it's true, fans get the team they deserve, we are certainly in for a tough time.

Go Canucks Go!

Agree!

I hate the no game days. Usually too many sh*t postings!

Go Canucks Go!

[gameburn]

3 hours ago, Kelly Green said:

starting the season with this defense makes me believe the plan all along was to compete for a lottery pick , not for a playoff spot

hopefully he can talk edler into waiving at the deadline as well as moving out expiring contracts too

 

draft day and july 1 are going to be the 2 biggest days of the year for canucks fans this year , and i am really looking forward to that !  :-)

Not sure I agree with your assessment of what the starting D suggests in the way of an intentional tank, but I agree: draft/TDL are going to be huge in particular this year, and I believe you may be right about Edler and the other vets.  The key moments in this season for suggesting what the BIG PLAN might be, were: (1) Hutton, Mac and V. making the team; (2) dumping Higgins, and then Prust and Weber.  The latter is the key: Benning is willing to cut his losses and remove the deadwood, whatever the cost.  I suspect that Burrows and Edler are closer to the Higgins treatment than we would expect. If as I suspect we pick up 2 D this draft that can actually start next season (not unreasonable with Sergachev, Juolevi, Chychrun, Stanley, Girard and Day in the mix), then Edler and other marginal D we have now can be traded/waived in the Summer/Fall.  We could start fresh next year with: Biega and Hutton, Tanev and Sergachev/Chych, Girard and Hamhuis.  A mix like that. 

[Bobby_Lu1ngo]

This wasnt a therad to complain at all. It was to discuss thoughts on how Benning has handled the team moving in to a critical point moving forward. I'm a fan of Benning and realize its extremely challenging this day in age to be a GM and that its tough to make moves. But the idea was to hear opinions. We can ask questions about it these things all we want and doesnt mean we are panicking or giving up. We get what we get but as fans we get to do this. 

 

Every year teams position themselves for the draft. Why is it wrong to ask if thats better long term than making the playoffs for a round. How well has that been working out for us. Im asking why is that better than positioning for a high pick to build our team with. People still haven't answered how we are better off in the future by playing a round with our young guys. We have heard its expensive to build your team in free agency which ia what happens as a meddling team. 

 

The players will always play to win. Trading vrbata and hamhuis for picks then bringing shink up in vrbata spot doesnt mean your throwing in the towel. What if shink helps us more since vrbata has been uninspired for months? We are where we are largely without big contribution from vrbata and without hammer altogether for months.

[GB5]

I don't like this thread. Comparing last year when the team was playing well and finished high in th standings to this year where the playoffs may likely be a distant memory is like comparing apples to rotten turnips. 

Is Benning playing his cards right? Last I am glad he positioned the team for playoff success, this year, there will be trades if there are takers but you can't force teams to trade for players and you can't force NTC players to be traded.

[6string]

It's not perfect but Benning is doing a fine job, I would be concerned if this was happenng in his fourth year but for now, leave it alone. 

[JamesB]

4 hours ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said:

I've been thinking about some of the things Benning has said over the past year and specifically more recently and have to say I'm not sure he is executing very well. 

Holds on to richardson and matthias at last years deadline when he should have moved them.

Moves lack (could have been miller leaving mor cap) and bieksa for lower picks than he thought he would get admittedly.

Brings in prust and bartkowski, reups weber, all ufa at seasons end. Fails to find trading partner for any so far although still has a few weeks. Add higgins to the list too. 

Failing to execute on these smaller moves still makes a difference in my opinion.

..

 

He has made a few trades such as baertschi and sutter that i think were very good trades. Even Kesler deal was decent with all things considered. So this is not just to roast him but more to point out the importance of this moment in time towards the future of the team. The potential is there that by the end of the summer we could set up our future and team for next season to be back in the hunt with the right moves. Can Benning make it happen?

What are others thoughts?

Good, fair-minded assessment of Benning's moves so far. There have been some good moves (Kesler trade, Baertschi for a second round pick, Etem for Jensen, Pedan for a third round pick, etc.)

But I agree about the small "mistakes". It is not a question of just "some moves work out, some don't". It is more a question of strategy. Benning has shown himself to be good at assessing young talent. But his willingness to overpay for vets and refusal to trade vets for picks suggests that he is putting too much emphasis on trying to scrape into the playoffs this year instead of building for the future.

And I am really tired of this "develop players in a winning environment" mantra, which is complete BS. First, the Canucks are second to last in the entire NHL in wins (one win ahead of Toronto), we better hope that is not the key. Second, guys like Toews and Kane were drafted into teams that were losing initially and it did not seem to hurt them.

Also, I worry about Benning's tendency to overpay in contracts. Miller, Vrbata, Sbisa, Dorsett and Sutter were clearly overpaid, in my view.  Prust's contract, which Benning traded for, was way too high. Hard to believe that Dorsett is actually getting paid more than Hansen and Prust is gettting the same amount. And Benning should have traded Higgins last year when he had some trade value. There is a reason the Canucks are sitting on buried contracts eating into their cap space -- it is an indicator of overpaying.