DonLever

Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States

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10 hours ago, coastal.view said:

you can have any opinion you want

based on whatever or perhaps nothing

go ahead, it is a free country

 

i have in fact listened with some attention to what has been going on

the dems have set out their case based on solid facts

buttressed by solid legal reasoning

and a telling moral foundation

i see nothing of a circus in this approach

they are serious, detailed, methodical and thorough in their presentation

 

the gop on other hand

have been out right lying in their statements about facts

they are unclear regarding the legal reasoning supporting their position

they seem unprepared overall

or maybe there is nothing they can really prepare

 

they have engaged in trumpism tactics

attempting to reshape people's view about what has happened

by distorting real facts

but really, they do not talk about facts, because those don't help them

so they are just making noise really

they appear to be engaging in a farce

 

their position is hollow and lacks substance

the gop are going through the motions (which does not require meaningful preparation)

they have no basis on which to excuse trump and his conduct

but they will anyway

I respect that you're paying attention and have a well thought out position...I also highly respect that you seem to be able to present it with a level head!  As I've mentioned numerous times, the whole love or hate Trump craze doesn't overly interest me... that being said I've heard relatively reasonable people say the same kinds of things you're saying on both sides of the argument.... It ends up looking - to my perhaps overly sceptical self - that for the most part the people who supported Trump before all of this will continue to support him and find reasons to do so and the people who didn't will continue to find reasons not to.  What makes things more interesting is when you see the few people who change their minds.   

 

Who knows... maybe I'm just being obstinately agnostic on the subject :P 

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15 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

He also needs the other party selecting a candidate that doesn't inspire people to vote for that other person.  Whatever you say about Bone Spurs, his base of support is rock solid.  He could run over a bunch of puppies & then back up over then AGAIN AND AGAIN...and his support won't change.  Though his base of support isn't likely to increase that much either.

The Demos have become the Party of DC. Their connection to mainstreet  is frayed. The election this fall will be all about mainstreet. If that is the case then Trump will win walking away. Ask why he won in 2016? Sorry it wasn't the russians, what a joke. Trump tapped into the desperate plight of many Americans. In 4 years unemployment is at all time lows and incomes are increasing. Blacks and Hispanics are benefiting and they are moving over to the GOP. Top that with the lowering of corporate taxes that have rejuvenated capital investment in the USA. Americans are feeling positive. 

 

Surprise. Americans are more skeptical about what they see on TV news. What the MSM passes off as news is a disgrace. IMHO this is the greatest threat to democracy. Trump is bypassing the MSM and communicating to voters with a convoluted  message. If business is Trump's greatest strength the Demos should have built a business plan that could have undermined Trump. They should have enticed legitimate candidates who could challenge Trump on the business side. I doubt Bloomberg can do it but he was a start. I would love Bill Gates but there are many others. But the Dems didn't do any kind of job on this. Each day they sink to new lows. Main street is laughing at them in larger numbers.    

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8 hours ago, Boudrias said:

The Demos have become the Party of DC. Their connection to mainstreet  is frayed. The election this fall will be all about mainstreet. If that is the case then Trump will win walking away. Ask why he won in 2016? Sorry it wasn't the russians, what a joke. Trump tapped into the desperate plight of many Americans. In 4 years unemployment is at all time lows and incomes are increasing. Blacks and Hispanics are benefiting and they are moving over to the GOP. Top that with the lowering of corporate taxes that have rejuvenated capital investment in the USA. Americans are feeling positive. 

 

Surprise. Americans are more skeptical about what they see on TV news. What the MSM passes off as news is a disgrace. IMHO this is the greatest threat to democracy. Trump is bypassing the MSM and communicating to voters with a convoluted  message. If business is Trump's greatest strength the Demos should have built a business plan that could have undermined Trump. They should have enticed legitimate candidates who could challenge Trump on the business side. I doubt Bloomberg can do it but he was a start. I would love Bill Gates but there are many others. But the Dems didn't do any kind of job on this. Each day they sink to new lows. Main street is laughing at them in larger numbers.    

People may hate trump as a person but his putting his people first and his policies arnt all horrible, most of them Benefit the American people.....

 

Edit* for the confused....trump kicking out abunch of illegal workers creates more jobs for Americans........that's putting his people first. 

Edited by RowdyCanuck
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1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said:

People may hate trump as a person but his putting his people first and his policies arnt all horrible, most of them Benefit the American people.....

 

Not the majority.   Just the wealthy.   Trumps tax cuts overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy. 

 

Millions have lost their healthcare and many more would have if it wasn't for McCain.

 

Trump's rolled back all kinds of environmental regulations and pretty much gutted the clean water act.  One of the first rollbacks was to make it easier to dispose of coal ash near rivers/streams.   

 

His foreign policy decisions have been a train wreck.  

 

Ask American farmers how much better things are unde TRUMP and his trade war.  

 

Just a few examples where TRUMP'S not great or even good.

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6 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Not the majority.   Just the wealthy.   Trumps tax cuts overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy. 

 

Millions have lost their healthcare and many more would have if it wasn't for McCain.

 

Trump's rolled back all kinds of environmental regulations and pretty much gutted the clean water act.  One of the first rollbacks was to make it easier to dispose of coal ash near rivers/streams.   

 

His foreign policy decisions have been a train wreck.  

 

Ask American farmers how much better things are unde TRUMP and his trade war.  

 

Just a few examples where TRUMP'S not great or even good.

I said not all his poilcies are horrible so you cherry picking.....

every president and PM make bone head moves but sometimes you have look pasted that.....

 

edit* I never said trump was good or great......

 

Edited by RowdyCanuck

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8 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Banning Muslims, refusing to take in refugees, separating families at the southern border then putting children in tent camps, imposing crippling tariffs on imports with the money coming from the pockets of American consumers, cancelling any social legislation Obama enacted, slamming farmers with trade wars so that they can't move their soybeans, ICE crackdowns that have been so effective that migrant farm labourers aren't coming around so that crops aren't all getting picked, trying to seize land from private citizens to build a wall that still hasn't seen even a kilometre of NEW fence, cutting back on food stamps, banning trans gender people from the military, pulling out of trade deals, alienating America's most trusted Allies, giving tax breaks to the wealthy, making it clear he values only those Americans that support him even as he characterizes his opponents as the enemy, and lying a dozen times a day. Which of these things benefit the American people? More to the point, can you name any of the "benefits" Trump has provided the American people?

well said!

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3 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Banning Muslims, refusing to take in refugees, separating families at the southern border then putting children in tent camps, imposing crippling tariffs on imports with the money coming from the pockets of American consumers, cancelling any social legislation Obama enacted, slamming farmers with trade wars so that they can't move their soybeans, ICE crackdowns that have been so effective that migrant farm labourers aren't coming around so that crops aren't all getting picked, trying to seize land from private citizens to build a wall that still hasn't seen even a kilometre of NEW fence, cutting back on food stamps, banning trans gender people from the military, pulling out of trade deals, alienating America's most trusted Allies, giving tax breaks to the wealthy, making it clear he values only those Americans that support him even as he characterizes his opponents as the enemy, and lying a dozen times a day. Which of these things benefit the American people? More to the point, can you name any of the "benefits" Trump has provided the American people?

1. About ICE trump wants those farmers to hire Americans and didn't the south try to use cheap labour and the North didn't like that lol so yes his putting Americans first.....

2.why invite more headaches into the military.....and what does it matter if your grand gender if your fighting for your country and also health reasons cause trans genders need drugs to balance them out and if you can't see why that's a decent idea then I don't know what to tell you. 

3.butterfly affect....in theory. If the rich get to keep more money then sometimes they reinvest it in other industries.....which create more jobs for Americans 

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1 minute ago, Gnarcore said:

*effect

 

Also that is known as trickle down economics and has proven to not work.  In the case of the corporate cuts they paid out bonuses and did stock buy backs. In the case of the wealthy they typically just hoard it or invest in a manner that dosent generate much jobs. Small businesses are the largest employer. The cuts they received is the one good thing I can think of to point 

Trickle down doesn't work.  If the bulk of the tax cuts went to the middle/lower class, that money gets spent and works it's way through the economy.   Like you said, most of the corporate and wealthy tax cuts get hoarded or spent in ways that don't trickle down. 

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5 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

I respect that you're paying attention and have a well thought out position...I also highly respect that you seem to be able to present it with a level head!  As I've mentioned numerous times, the whole love or hate Trump craze doesn't overly interest me... that being said I've heard relatively reasonable people say the same kinds of things you're saying on both sides of the argument.... It ends up looking - to my perhaps overly sceptical self - that for the most part the people who supported Trump before all of this will continue to support him and find reasons to do so and the people who didn't will continue to find reasons not to.  What makes things more interesting is when you see the few people who change their minds.   

 

Who knows... maybe I'm just being obstinately agnostic on the subject :P 

if you are not already doing so

i suggest you view the white house arguments being forwarded today in the senate

don't rely on what i or anyone else might say

go see for yourself

this is an incredibly important hearing

and it seems you might be adopting a level of disinterest due to a "circus" viewpoint

that is exactly what the trumpies want to have their base and other citizens adopt

 

the submission of the trump crew at the senate hearing

is gaslighting

much of what they say is untrue

spouting russian talking points

 

they are doing exactly what i suspected they would do

 

it is close to nonsense

 

if the senate accepts this sort of thing as credible

the political system in usa will be forever changed

and the next 4 years of trump will much worse then the past 3 years

that great county will begin its fall due to internal neglect

and unfortunately, canada will not escape that rot due to our proximity to the usa

Edited by coastal.view
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30 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

*effect

 

Also that is known as trickle down economics and has proven to not work.  In the case of the corporate cuts they paid out bonuses and did stock buy backs. In the case of the wealthy they typically just hoard it or invest in a manner that dosent generate much jobs. Small businesses are the largest employer. The cuts they received is the one good thing I can think of to point out. 

Didnt trump force car manufacturers to stay in the USA.......i cant remember when but it was during Obama term that Burger King wanted to buy timmies cause of the tax breaks they would have got in Canada......

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10 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Burger King wanted to buy timmies cause of the tax breaks they would have got in Canada......

Who does own Timmies? it's a yank company right?

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I was wrong Burger King wanted to move it's main office to Canada for the tax breaks......

timmies and Burger King are both owned by the RBI. Restaurant brands international but timmies head office is in Canada though so I would hope a Canadian lol

 

edit* sorry @bishopshodan forgot to quote yea

Edited by RowdyCanuck

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14 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Who does own Timmies? it's a yank company right?

A Brazilian equity firm

i believe.. 3G Capital

not canadian at all

timmies sucks

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well unfortunately

it now does appear to me

that the dems will lose on the obstruction of justice article against trump

 

am not steeped in usa political matters

but thought i had a pretty good working understanding

i think i did not fully consider the importance of the theory of balance of power in this process

 

shiff's recent argument about bypassing the courts is technically illogical if you uphold the balance of powers theory

i know why the house chose to bypass the courts to force compliance with subpoenas due to time issues

but that tortured the important balance of powers requirements

 

the house checks things like abuse of power

but they do not have ultimate power to do so

sometimes the court intervention is necessary for the purposes of justice

and to prevent the house from overstepping

 

skipping that step really does undercut the legal argument that trump obstructed

as the courts have never really sided with the house to date

(i appreciate mccain has been ordered to testify but in relation to the mueller investigation)

 

no matter what the facts might be to convince anyone of the president's misconduct

due process is required

just as there is always the courts intervention or involvement in resolving any serious (criminal) legal matter

no matter how convinced we may be of a criminal's guilt

without an admission

the court's determination is required

it cannot be bypassed or side stepped

so to some extent the house is abusing its powers by insisting that it can

 

the house did not try to formalize the adopting of these court like powers (to decide this issue)

when it set out the rules and process for their impeachment process

if it had, the white house would have challenged and won an objection in the courts

 

despite how ugly it may seem

the dems calculated decision to proceed in the interest of time

seriously undermines their impeachment article on obstruction

sometimes justice requires inconvenience...

 

 

 

Edited by coastal.view
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45 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

if you are not already doing so

i suggest you view the white house arguments being forwarded today in the senate

don't rely on what i or anyone else might say

go see for yourself

this is an incredibly important hearing

and it seems you might be adopting a level of disinterest due to a "circus" viewpoint

that is exactly what the trumpies want to have their base and other citizens adopt

 

the submission of the trump crew at the senate hearing

is gaslighting

much of what they say is untrue

spouting russian talking points

 

they are doing exactly what i suspected they would do

 

it is close to nonsense

 

if the senate accepts this sort of thing as credible

the political system in usa will be forever changed

and the next 4 years of trump will much worse then the past 3 years

that great county will begin its fall due to internal neglect

and unfortunately, canada will not escape that rot due to our proximity to the usa


I thought the due process lawyer outlining the subpoena authority needed by house committees, via authorization of the full house vote, was pretty spot

on as to why the white house didn't comply. Im no scholar but He was was referencing what sounded like supreme court solid precedent.

The portion outlining foreign aid review

of numerous countries was indicative that the ukraine situation was part

Of a broader policy initiative with pausing fund distributions, and the relevant timeline involved. Not to mention the fact lethal aid distributed was a uniquely stronger step taken by drumpf to support ukraine against russia.
next week

should be fun With the more well known lawyers like

pam, ken, and alan taking the floor
i suspect we will hear more about the Biden situation then as well.

 

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2 minutes ago, Chicken. said:


I thought the due process lawyer outlining the subpoena authority needed by house committees, via authorization of the full house vote, was pretty spot

on as to why the white house didn't comply. Im no scholar but He was was referencing what sounded like supreme court solid precedent.

The portion outlining foreign aid review

of numerous countries was indicative that the ukraine situation was part

Of a broader policy initiative with pausing fund distributions, and the relevant timeline involved. Not to mention the fact lethal aid distributed was a uniquely stronger step taken by drumpf to support ukraine against russia.
next week

should be fun With the more well known lawyers like

pam, ken, and alan taking the floor
i suspect we will hear more about the Biden situation then as well.

 

looks like i was agreeing with you in my post above

on the obstruction issue anyway

before i had a chance to read your post

 

please stay out of my head in future

ok

 

:frantic:

Edited by coastal.view
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8 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

looks like i was agreeing with you in my post above

on the obstruction issue anyway

before i had a chance to read your post

 

please stay out of my head in future

ok

 

:frantic:

I am

glad you are seeing the light after only a brief 2 hour rebuttal from Trumps counsel

just

wait

until You hear the next 20 hours :P that

will probably

focus on the abuse of power charge

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11 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

I am

glad you are seeing the light after only a brief 2 hour rebuttal from Trumps counsel

just

wait

until You hear the next 20 hours :P that

will probably

focus on the abuse of power charge

no

i really doubt that

sorry

i would have heard something of substance already

if that were possible

(and ironically, my view on the article of obstruction, was influenced more by what schiff said then what i heard today)

 

the ultimate decision of whether trump abused power or not

cannot be discounted due to technical issues

truth is required for that assessment

 

i am still somewhat puzzled though

why he has not given any evidence in this process

when bill clinton did in his impeachment

and why that is not being argued as a relevant issue

(that he should, and the senate should compel him)

but maybe his numerous public statements make that unnecessary

Edited by coastal.view

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