DonLever

Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the US - Impeached By House, Acquited By Senate

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57 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

as long as you know the biases, you can weigh things appropriately. Where it gets scary is when people deny basic facts just because its on a favourite network.

 

fwiw I haven't watched a second of the so-called trial, its a joke. Nothing will come of it except a Trump re-election. The Republicans will ensure nothing happens and the US will vote that clown in one more time. 

 

As soon as new nafta is ratified I won't care anymore, that was the big outstanding issue. If the US wants to go down the Trump toilet there's nothing i can do about it. 

 

I have to disagree there. While Mitch McConnell is a lot of things, he doesn't strike me as stupid. If he actually believed that the impeachment was going to help Trump, he'd be all for dragging it out as long as possible. 

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Just now, HerrDrFunk said:

Yeah, trying to portray Shapiro as middle ground is going to be a hard sell for me. 

 

Shapiro admitted a week later he wasn't prepared and got "destroyed" (his own wording).

He clearly wasn't prepared but I don't call not being ready for a rude and aggressive interviewer being "destroyed" in terms of content discourse, it sure may have been in terms of being able to have had a civil conversation.     Either way, had zero impact on how I feel about the guy and hard sell or not, he is very logical and fair on many social issues with the caveat that IF you are able to work, why should society take care of you?   I agree with that.   We have a moral obligation to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves but after that, life owes you NOTHING and even more so, I certainly don't from what I earn.

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1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I have to disagree there. While Mitch McConnell is a lot of things, he doesn't strike me as stupid. If he actually believed that the impeachment was going to help Trump, he'd be all for dragging it out as long as possible. 

imo the act of impeachment will be enough to ensure the always Trumpers will come out in full force. Cocaine Mitch will now want  to shut it down asap. He's making them hold long hours over shorter days to try to fatigue the senate into giving up. Dragging it out only increases the risk that more information comes out or people start paying attention. 

 

Its sad Dr. Funk, but I just don't think enough people in the US care that Trump has tried to use both Russia and Ukraine to hurt his opponents. I really think they just don't give a $&!#. It doesn't hit them in the wallet. 

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7 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He clearly wasn't prepared but I don't call not being ready for a rude and aggressive interviewer being "destroyed" in terms of content discourse, it sure may have been in terms of being able to have had a civil conversation.     Either way, had zero impact on how I feel about the guy and hard sell or not, he is very logical and fair on many social issues with the caveat that IF you are able to work, why should society take care of you?   I agree with that.   We have a moral obligation to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves but after that, life owes you NOTHING and even more so, I certainly don't from what I earn.

because sometimes people get into rough patches, even with the best of intentions and work ethic. If you have time, its worth looking up how people become homeless, e.g. it might shed some light on it. 

 

Theres also a great economic argument for having social safety nets. Societies that have them do better than those that don't. 

 

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He clearly wasn't prepared but I don't call not being ready for a rude and aggressive interviewer being "destroyed" in terms of content discourse, it sure may have been in terms of being able to have had a civil conversation.     Either way, had zero impact on how I feel about the guy and hard sell or not, he is very logical and fair on many social issues with the caveat that IF you are able to work, why should society take care of you?   I agree with that.   We have a moral obligation to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves but after that, life owes you NOTHING and even more so, I certainly don't from what I earn.

You or I don't don't have to call it that; those were Shapiro's own words. 

 

Obviously though, nothing said here is going to change your opinion of the man.

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

those two things aside, it should worry everyone that Trump is so eager to bring in foreign assistance in bringing down a candidate. Thats unprecedented and the definition of corrupt. And yes even if it was Obama I'd say the same thing.

 

Yeah the candidates are a major disappointment, we agree on that for sure. But its a classic problem on the left, its very hard for them to get behind any one person or concept. 

There are far bigger things to worry about Trump than that....and lot more corrupt issues included.   Even at its worst if all that the weasel Schiff is claiming is true (sorry, he looks like a weasel to me...but I suspect all of the claims are true), it isn't something that happens EVER day from pretty much every world leader.   Trudeau's  crap with SNC was, in my books, even worse on that scale.   It ALL stinks.   

 

That is another problem you rightly raise, people see the Democrats as the "left".  Once upon a time in the US, the Democrats were the "middle".   Where the h*ll did that go?   Tulsi Gabbard come along with sane policies and some very centrist ideas and the "establishment" call her a Russian operative!    Good gawd!!!

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

imo the act of impeachment will be enough to ensure the always Trumpers will come out in full force. Cocaine Mitch will now want  to shut it down asap. He's making them hold long hours over shorter days to try to fatigue the senate into giving up. Dragging it out only increases the risk that more information comes out or people start paying attention. 

 

Its sad Dr. Funk, but I just don't think enough people in the US care that Trump has tried to use both Russia and Ukraine to hurt his opponents. I really think they just don't give a $&!#. It doesn't hit them in the wallet. 

Oh, they've certainly done that; Jim Jordan will always more than happy to spout whatever gibberish conspiracy Trump tells him to. 

 

However, while impeachment will have fired up Trump's base, there's a lot of undecided voters who can see the &^@#ery the Republicans are pulling right now. 

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1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

There are far bigger things to worry about Trump than that....and lot more corrupt issues included.   Even at its worst if all that the weasel Schiff is claiming is true (sorry, he looks like a weasel to me...but I suspect all of the claims are true), it isn't something that happens EVER day from pretty much every world leader.   Trudeau's  crap with SNC was, in my books, even worse on that scale.   It ALL stinks.   

 

That is another problem you rightly raise, people see the Democrats as the "left".  Once upon a time in the US, the Democrats were the "middle".   Where the h*ll did that go?   Tulsi Gabbard come along with sane policies and some very centrist ideas and the "establishment" call her a Russian operative!    Good gawd!!!

I'd like to see a middle back in Canada too. Thats why I would OK with Ambrose winning if she becomes CPC leader, I think thats the ground she'd occupy most of the time.

 

I just expect nothing to change in the US because of this so-called trial. Its not really a trial at all. 

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

because sometimes people get into rough patches, even with the best of intentions and work ethic. If you have time, its worth looking up how people become homeless, e.g. it might shed some light on it. 

 

Theres also a great economic argument for having social safety nets. Societies that have them do better than those that don't. 

 

Rough patches are one thing and society should support/bridge those times.   San Francisco has a great concept for homeless...been there recently?

 

I am all for social safety nets and if you actually listen to Ben, he is too.    I full agree on your note about societies so not sure where you get I am not.   My point is too many are choosing to live off such a net and feel entitled to do so.  Further, succeeding is now being seen by more and more as some form of a sin.   I don't think ANYONE needs billions of dollars but I also don't believe for a second that people who take the risk of starting a business, pay their fair share of taxes AND create jobs for others don't deserve success when it comes IF it comes.   Canada has already declared its own war on small business and how is that working out for you?

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Just now, HerrDrFunk said:

Oh, they've certainly done that; Jim Jordan will always more than happy to spout whatever gibberish conspiracy Trump tells him to. 

 

However, while impeachment will have fired up Trump's base, there's a lot of undecided voters who can see the &^@#ery the Republicans are pulling right now. 

but will they actually get off the couch and vote? or will the new episode of Some Dingus has Talent just be too compelling? 

 

I'm pretty soured on the US right now, I guess thats showing :lol:

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3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Rough patches are one thing and society should support/bridge those times.   San Francisco has a great concept for homeless...been there recently?

 

I am all for social safety nets and if you actually listen to Ben, he is too.    I full agree on your note about societies so not sure where you get I am not.   My point is too many are choosing to live off such a net and feel entitled to do so.  Further, succeeding is now being seen by more and more as some form of a sin.   I don't think ANYONE needs billions of dollars but I also don't believe for a second that people who take the risk of starting a business, pay their fair share of taxes AND create jobs for others don't deserve success when it comes IF it comes.   Canada has already declared its own war on small business and how is that working out for you?

down the list in my case, but I do believe small businesses deserve a bigger tax break.

 

I dunno, I need to see the actual numbers on how many people are really living off the net to have a proper discussion. 

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but will they actually get off the couch and vote? or will the new episode of Some Dingus has Talent just be too compelling? 

 

I'm pretty soured on the US right now, I guess thats showing :lol:

So am I! :lol:

 

But yes, as we've seen as recently in Kentucky, where a Democrat was elected governor while every other Republican on the ticket was voted in, disgust can be a motivator to get out and vote. 

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22 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Oh, they've certainly done that; Jim Jordan will always more than happy to spout whatever gibberish conspiracy Trump tells him to. 

 

However, while impeachment will have fired up Trump's base, there's a lot of undecided voters who can see the &^@#ery the Republicans are pulling right now. 

This is my take as well. Trump's base doesn't need "firing up". They get that from Hannity on a nightly basis. I doubt this affects GOP voting numbers anywhere near as significantly as Trump's people are hoping for. Same goes for people on the other side of the fence. They would be hoping for his ouster even if the Ukraine scandal had never seen the light of day.

 

It's the independents and moderate Republicans, (those who like what's happened with the Economy, but have issues with the constant lies, misogyny, racism, etc.) that might be swayed by shining a light on such an abuse of power.

 

It's pretty well documented that Trump won in 2016 because of thin margins in a few swing states. The goal here is to let the voters in those states know exactly who and what they'll be voting for in November.

 

Like you, I don't believe this is a "waste of time", nor do I believe that it increases Trump's chances of winning. On both points, I believe the opposite.

Edited by RUPERTKBD
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Haha just shoving it into the democrat's faces that he's obstructing and there's nothing they can do about it. 

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44 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

So am I! :lol:

 

But yes, as we've seen as recently in Kentucky, where a Democrat was elected governor while every other Republican on the ticket was voted in, disgust can be a motivator to get out and vote. 

 

37 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

 

 

Like you, I don't believe this is a "waste of time", nor do I believe that it increases Trump's chances of winning. On both points, I believe the opposite.

 

you two have a lot more faith in the voting public than I do I guess. 

 

The reason I think its going to help Trump is that any base if powerful if properly motivated. I suspect the democrats will pick either Biden or Warren who won't energize the left enough, and on the right they'll be "saving their president". I think the motivations are just more powerful on the right. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

 

you two have a lot more faith in the voting public than I do I guess. 

 

The reason I think its going to help Trump is that any base if powerful if properly motivated. I suspect the democrats will pick either Biden or Warren who won't energize the left enough, and on the right they'll be "saving their president". I think the motivations are just more powerful on the right. 

 

 

True but Trump's base isn't enough to win him the election on its own. He still needs moderates and undecided to put him over the top; as well as low voter turnout as high turnout almost never favors Republicans.  

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6 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

True but Trump's base isn't enough to win him the election on its own. He still needs moderates and undecided to put him over the top; as well as low voter turnout as high turnout almost never favors Republicans.  

true dat, but thats where election time goodies buys you a lot of kitchen table support. 

 

Hey I'd love to see you prove me wrong Funk, but as things stand today I'd bet on Trump winning a 2nd term. 

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16 hours ago, haton said:

@Cerridwen since you're confused about Biden taking care of the his sons company by forcing the Ukrainians to fire the prosecutor going after them, here it is.

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/09/27/flashback_2018_joe_biden_brags_at_cfr_meeting_about_withholding_aid_to_ukraine_to_force_firing_of_prosecutor.html

I am not confused about anything... I've read the facts involved....but I'm quite enjoying watching you trying to justify the unjustifiable.. Do carry on. :lol:

Edited by Cerridwen
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1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

true dat, but thats where election time goodies buys you a lot of kitchen table support. 

 

Hey I'd love to see you prove me wrong Funk, but as things stand today I'd bet on Trump winning a 2nd term. 

I agree there's a good chance of Trump being re-elected, but I don't see Impeachment as the catalyst.

 

As Funk said Trump needs more than his base to win and it's entirely possible that moderates and undecideds hold their noses and vote for him again, because they think he's good for the economy, or appoints bible punchers to the Supreme Court, but I don't see those same voters getting disgusted with the Democrats for attempting to hold Trump to account for his corrupt actions.

 

It might just not be a bridge too far for enough fence sitters. Meanwhile, we keep hearing more and more damning information about Team Trump's actions in the Ukraine. I just can't see that being good for him. Maybe if Republican voters had a history of apathy when it comes to casting their votes on election day, but I don't believe this is the case. Therefore, I don't believe the "galvanization" of Trump voters moves the needle enough to ensure his reelection.

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40 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I agree there's a good chance of Trump being re-elected, but I don't see Impeachment as the catalyst.

 

As Funk said Trump needs more than his base to win and it's entirely possible that moderates and undecideds hold their noses and vote for him again, because they think he's good for the economy, or appoints bible punchers to the Supreme Court, but I don't see those same voters getting disgusted with the Democrats for attempting to hold Trump to account for his corrupt actions.

 

It might just not be a bridge too far for enough fence sitters. Meanwhile, we keep hearing more and more damning information about Team Trump's actions in the Ukraine. I just can't see that being good for him. Maybe if Republican voters had a history of apathy when it comes to casting their votes on election day, but I don't believe this is the case. Therefore, I don't believe the "galvanization" of Trump voters moves the needle enough to ensure his reelection.

so much depends on who the democrats pick. I don't see Biden energizing the left, at all. Warren probably scares people off. 

 

Maybe Bernie has a chance since he's so popular with black Americans and also that elusive millennial vote. 

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