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4 minutes ago, nom_de_plume said:

I wanna start with these and if I were coach the lines would be in a blender all night long... Would be extremely entertaining to watch and listen to the pbp guys try to figure out who's playing where and with whom

As a team that wants to make the playoffs it looks stale.. For a team that wants a top 5 pick it looks pretty darn good.

I just feel Willie has pulverized the dead horse with Vey, Vrbata and Weber.. 

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7 minutes ago, Boone Jenner said:

As a team that wants to make the playoffs it looks stale.. For a team that wants a top 5 pick it looks pretty darn good.

I just feel Willie has pulverized the dead horse with Vey, Vrbata and Weber.. 

Agreed my friend.  I believe WD, TL and JB are secretly going behind FA back and following a game plan for top 5 pick.  That can be the only reasoning behind some of these boneheaded personnel moves.

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3 hours ago, Fateless said:

Apollo, I've always written you off as this boards biggest Canucks fan that sacrifices logic and rationality to support this team to your full extent.

Lost a lot of respect for you on this post. Simply writing off a 20 year old that is actually having an excellent year (point per game over the last 15 games, much more than the Sedins) because of a poor +/- stat? You do realize how inflated the +/- stat is because of the minutes Horvat plays against top line opposition right? 

Pretty disappointed to see you berating one of this team's only bright spots this year, particularly considering he'll likely be the Canucks' future captain. 

Will remind you of this post in 5 years.

Berating is a big exaggeration.  He simply pointed out that he has the worst plus/minus in the league (fact) and that he's overrated (opinion).  Both are pretty fair assessments.  That also doesn't mean that he's not one of the teams only bright spots or that he's not a player to be excited about for the future.

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Easy to coach this team to a tank.

Just roll the lines.

Our team is full of holes.    Top line is over the hill.    Crap PP.  No shut down D centre.  Our second line is a third line on most teams.      No 1-2 top D men .  Defence are way too soft. 

This is an easy team to tank with .  

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9 minutes ago, dura_mater said:

Berating is a big exaggeration.  He simply pointed out that he has the worst plus/minus in the league (fact) and that he's overrated (opinion).  Both are pretty fair assessments.  That also doesn't mean that he's not one of the teams only bright spots or that he's not a player to be excited about for the future.

How is a player overrated but then be one of its' only bright spots?  Seems like an oxymoron to me...

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3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

We will see. I still think there will be zero trades involving our key UFA players. I hope I am wrong.

I think that will have more to do with the return being offered for them.  We'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Vrbata.  Hamhuis is a big decision as it leaves our d pretty thin and we risk him not re-signing with us next year.

As for JB saying we're trying to make the playoffs I think this is just posturing.  I don't think he wants to show his hand - that we'll be sellers as it may devalue our assets and send a poor message to the fans.  JB and TL are smart guys and I'm sure they see the writing on the wall.

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2 minutes ago, nom_de_plume said:

How is a player overrated but then be one of its' only bright spots?  Seems like an oxymoron to me...

Sorry, should have explained this a bit more.  Many talented young players have a poor plus/minus in their first year or two but can still turn out to be excellent players.  He can be overrated this season but still be a future star.  Being overrated really just depends on how many of the fans view a player.  Many players around the league are overrated.  Hope that makes sense.

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27 minutes ago, dura_mater said:

Berating is a big exaggeration.  He simply pointed out that he has the worst plus/minus in the league (fact) and that he's overrated (opinion).  Both are pretty fair assessments.  That also doesn't mean that he's not one of the teams only bright spots or that he's not a player to be excited about for the future.

There's a reason so many teams have tried to pry him from us. Ever since the draft.  

His stats don't reflect his potential. It's his mental strength maturity , hockey smarts and work ethic that teams covet. It's VERY rare a guy has all of those. 

 A good example is how far his skating has come. He's that kid that changes the atmosphere , not the kid that changes with the atmosphere. His work ethic never changes. That's what teams want. A guy with skill that's guna plug away , shoot the puck and drive the net no matter how crappy the team around him is. He's always guna get better, and in top of that , he has natural talent. He's no Derek dorsett ( work ethic and character with low talent). And teams still want Derek just for his intangibles 

That's why he is so highly rated. U can't teach that. U can't teach maturity , drive , and ability. He's a sure fire NHL stud. Low risk. U trade for him he's guna be in the lineup and stand out . Not many 20 year olds with that to offer. He's not overrated in the slightest 

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40 minutes ago, nom_de_plume said:

It wouldn't make a difference if Weber got PP practice time or not... Results will be the same

I agree. Why not put in Biega? He wouldn't make a difference to our power-play, but our defence would look a lot better, 5-on-5. The 'Bulldog' saved us from potentially losing a point or two against the Coyotes. And what is his reward? To sit in the pressbox, next game.

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40 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

We will see. I still think there will be zero trades involving our key UFA players. I hope I am wrong.

I don't think we will see any this week, that's for sure IMHO. Unlike past deadlines when the two week window seems to be more active for major pieces rather than the day of proper, I believe that JB is true to his word that the decisions will come out of the meetings in the 20th/21st. They will go into those meetings with an A, B, & C scenario, I would guess. I'm not like many that believe the next week's results hinge those decisions, however. I think it's the discussions that matter...the options are already game planned. What we will see is more hand wringing from fans and media as their impatience ramps up.

In fact, IMO, it makes sense to wait until next week. It sends a message to the clubhouse that they are being given the chance. If/when the results aren't there then the decisions are more easily digestible for the ticket buyers and pundits. Less second guessing for the remaining 25 games.

I think the best scenario is that we make the required moves, whether that be trades or re-signings, and then push for the playoffs with the roster we have. Making the dance would be option 1 but if we fall short then, which we likely will, then we move forward with what we have. A depleted roster will still try and win games, like they should. We don't want players that give up before the final buzzer, just like in a single game.

The fretting over the percentages of likelihood of winning one of the three lottery positions is fruitless...and only banking on odds. The odds will never be good even if we finish last...the likelihood is that you pick 4th anyway. In fact, with this format, it's well within the realm of possibility that none of the bottom three teams pick in those spots. It could easily go 5th, 4th, 6th...for example, winning the lottery spots. Heck, the 14th pick could grab one of those spots, you never know.

But, even if we make the dance and pick 15th, the major decisions will still need to be made. Most of those will culminate over each of the next three offseasons/TDLs. While we discuss the cap space/returns this year on Hammer/Vrbata, there is even more wrapped up in the Miller/Burrows/Higgins transition and the Sedins/Hansen year. 

The story will not be told in the next two weeks...it's only one chapter. 

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3 minutes ago, dura_mater said:

Sorry, should have explained this a bit more.  Many talented young players have a poor plus/minus in their first year or two but can still turn out to be excellent players.  He can be overrated this season but still be a future star.  Being overrated really just depends on how many of the fans view a player.  Many players around the league are overrated.  Hope that makes sense.

Not really.  If a young player is a bright spot on a team how is he overrated?  I think if we were still seeing Bo struggle as he did in the first half of the season then maybe it would make sense.  And even through Bo's struggles in the first half you could still see him working his butt off. +- statistics can be somewhat telling, but doesn't give a good overall picture.  Maybe it's just that I disagree with Bo as an overrated player that isn't allowing me to see your point.

If the context is which player is overrated or underrated within this Canuck forum, then I could see how Bo would be considered as such.  He still has much to learn to get to the level that some project him to get to.  But I can't write off the serious energy, speed, tenacity, and ppg production he has brought especially in these past cpuple of months.  

He could be one of those special players in a few years that, when the chips are down, he'll put the team on his back and will us to victory.  He has those qualities and he's starting to bloom with enough confidence to put those qualities on display.  This, for me, is a leader in the making...

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6 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

I agree. Why not put in Biega? He wouldn't make a difference to our power-play, but our defence would look a lot better, 5-on-5. The 'Bulldog' saved us from potentially losing a point or two against the Coyotes. And what is his reward? To sit in the pressbox, next game.

Agreed.  Another reason why I think Willie, Trev and Jimmy all have an underminded plan for a top 5 pick.

 

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