J.I.A.H.N Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am just not happy right now with our hockey club, it doesn't mean I don't love them, nor that I will stop watching them, it is simply that they just do not impress me. I do not see any young first liners, and with all due respects to Tanev, I do not see any young top end Dmen. I have tried to see the talent, and I do love Horvat in general terms, but where's the beef? Where is our future starting line-up? We have generated plenty of 3rd and 4th line prospects these past 2 years, but I am skeptical of the view that we do not need higher end offensive elite talent, and can compete with workhorses. The reality is, it is pretty easy to develope 3rd and 4th liners, and you can sign UFA's to fill in holes on your 2nd line for a short while, but it is almost impossible to sign starting line up type players.........I believe they come from the draft, and generally further up the draft than the 12 to 18 OA selections. The fact is those elite players are usually found in the top 5 OA picks, and I do not see Benning positioning the Canucks for those picks. I honestly question whether we have any first line younger players, maybe only Broeser can be thought of in that regard........that leaves 4 more high end players to find. So in some regards, that is realistically 6 to 8 years of high end first rounders, as not everyone will turn out. So to me, the only way to "rebuild on the fly", is to not "rebuild on the fly", and to evaluate where you are and what you have, and move those assets that have value and are not in the age group where your young assets lay. (sell old assets before they have no value) Now if you look at our young assets, they are all in the 19 to 24 age group, and will be maturing in 2 to 3 years, which is outside of our older players playoff window. Not cashing in on those older assets now, can mean lesser or no returns for them later....... So, I see no reasoning to Benning's plan......shaking a Pear tree and expecting Plums to fall out, will disappoint you and waste your time......and in this case mine (ours). I hope that in the days to come, Benning makes some moves to move towards that goal.......like I have told my kids from time to time............. "I will always love you", but "I don't like you right now!".....those that have 3 year olds or teens will understand that! Those of you that are teens, will understand it later, when you have children. I am so trying to believe in Linden and Benning.....I truly am! I just don't like what I am hearing and seeing! Lets hope I am wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I hear you on being frustrated with management but let's remember that for the first couple of years, everyone thought Kesler's ceiling was the 3rd line. It's too early with our young guys to say whether or not they'll develop into high end players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dank dat hank Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 First of all, I thing Hutton is a top end dmen. Secondly, I agree with u on the part where u said that it is easy to develop a third forth liner. The problem with the Canucks rite now is that there a bad team but there not a maple leaf kind of bad team. The reason for this: the sedins the Sedins are too good. It is virtually impossible to get a top 5 pick with them in the lineup. im not saying we should trade them but that's just the reason for the rebuild on the fly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Dank dat hank said: First of all, I thing Hutton is a top end dmen. Secondly, I agree with u on the part where u said that it is easy to develop a third forth liner. The problem with the Canucks rite now is that there a bad team but there not a maple leaf kind of bad team. The reason for this: the sedins the Sedins are too good. It is virtually impossible to get a top 5 pick with them in the lineup. im not saying we should trade them but that's just the reason for the rebuild on the fly... I agree with you on Hutton, and I hope he will progress into a #1 or #2 Dman........just not sure if he gets that high........I wouldn't argue with you on if he will be a #3........I really do like him! He has a good future and I hope he can get there. Truly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fateless Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think its important that you place the blame for the lack of top-end prospects where it belongs - namely not on Benning. Benning hasn't been here long enough to draft a player and see him crack the team. Benning is working with the prospects (or lack there of) that Gillis brought in from the period where Gillis sold the farm to win in 2011. The fact is that Benning is trying to do his best to return us to competitiveness sooner than later which is why we see him trading picks for prospects or young NHLers. When you really break it down, Benning has drafted us some real gems so far in Demko and Boeser - both who are showing top-end talent so far in their young careers - but again, its way to soon to say Benning isn't bringing us young top-end future talent. I agree some of his signings and trades have been strange, but ultimately we need to see him finish gathering the puzzle pieces before we judge him. We're only seeing individual pieces and freaking out but I honestly believe that 2-3 years down the road all of the sudden our fanbase is going to go "oh... that's what he's been doing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 12 minutes ago, Dank dat hank said: First of all, I thing Hutton is a top end dmen. Secondly, I agree with u on the part where u said that it is easy to develop a third forth liner. The problem with the Canucks rite now is that there a bad team but there not a maple leaf kind of bad team. The reason for this: the sedins the Sedins are too good. It is virtually impossible to get a top 5 pick with them in the lineup. im not saying we should trade them but that's just the reason for the rebuild on the fly... Technically this deserves a mic drop.. Just sayin you could copy post this to 20 different threads.. It's the only reason we rebuild on the fly! The Sedins will never let us suck enough to be Toronto,Buffalo, or Edmonton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyotasfan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 There's no superstars in the cupboard. Tanking this season is the only way. There, I finally joined the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Toyotasfan said: There's no superstars in the cupboard. Tanking this season is the only way. There, I finally joined the dark side. LOL......Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Its libel to get a lot worse before it gets better..I would welcome a top 5 draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Your biggest problem is you don't understand talent. Horvat, Virtanen, Baertschi, Boeser, McCann all have the talent and skill sets to become first line players. Hutton will be a top pairing D, and canucks are positioned in a good position to get Sergachev, Chychrun or Juolevi in this years draft, Another top 2D. We also have Demko who is looking like he will be a top end goalie for this team. You see, you think because the players aren't coming in and putting up big points as 19 and 20 years olds they won't be first liners. But it wasn't that long ago when Henrik didn't crack the 40 point mark until he was 23 (his 4th NHL season), In fact his second pro season he put up 36 points in 82 games, the same pace Bo is at in his second season (a year younger then Hank). People get for to focussed on draft position and how only top 5 picks turn into first line players. And in order for teams to get those players you have to tank. But I challenge you to go through the entire starting line up on every NHL team, pick the top 2 players on their team and determine if that team "needed to finish in the bottom 5 to acquire them". ANA - Perry Getzlaf BOS - Bergeron, Krejci DAL - Seguin, Benn ARZ - Domi, Duclair CAL - Monahan, Gaudreau DET - Datsyuk, Zetterberg/Larkin MIN - Suter, Parise MTL, Pacioretty Subban, NYR - Nash, Krieder NJ - Palmieri Stempniak OTT - Ryan, Turris PHI - GIroux, Voracek SJ - Pavelski, Thornton STL - Tarasenko Steen WPG - Wheeler Little Even Captials and Lightnings top point producer this year are not the top picks but Kucherov (58th) and Kuznetzov (26th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I actually like where we are right now. It beats hiring a guy like Torts to run the Sedins into the ground at the end of their careers. We're in a transition phase, where some of our older talent is moving on, and young guys are learning the pro game. Our upcoming young core is among the best in the league. Just look at some of McKellan's comments last night after their loss to the sens. He's come to an organization that is ok with losing, with players that are "waiting for something", you can't shake that level of losing. This should be the fear for Canucks fans, of actually picking in the top 5 and promoting complacency among the players. We at least have a group that wants to win, and a young core that actually has veteran leadership to learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 50 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said: I hear you on being frustrated with management but let's remember that for the first couple of years, everyone thought Kesler's ceiling was the 3rd line. It's too early with our young guys to say whether or not they'll develop into high end players. McCann and Virtanen are really hard to gauge at this point. I think Virt is becoming a better player every week -- he just needs more playing time, and a willingness to look for his linemates a little more. McCann has terrific speed and an offensive awareness, but he too needs more ice time and probably a little more strength on the puck. I think the coaches are working with these guys, and probably on these obvious weaknesses. Are they first line players? Not sure, probably 2nd liners at least. Some teams never quite get mega-skill guys/superstars in their top 3 and still manage to compete for the cup. Is it enough to win a cup? Maybe not, but there will be a top 7 pick this year I suspect, maybe top 5, and that will help. Even if the team is "only" much better than they are now, say a .650 team, I think we'd be happy. Especially if we saw a rich supply of players in the works, and a team style of play we could be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersexual Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The Canucks might get a first line player this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 42 minutes ago, Ossi Vaananen said: I actually like where we are right now. It beats hiring a guy like Torts to run the Sedins into the ground at the end of their careers. We're in a transition phase, where some of our older talent is moving on, and young guys are learning the pro game. Our upcoming young core is among the best in the league. Just look at some of McKellan's comments last night after their loss to the sens. He's come to an organization that is ok with losing, with players that are "waiting for something", you can't shake that level of losing. This should be the fear for Canucks fans, of actually picking in the top 5 and promoting complacency among the players. We at least have a group that wants to win, and a young core that actually has veteran leadership to learn from. I agree with some of what you say Ossi and I hope I am wrong, I could live with that! Hope is a wonderful thing! I would think that all of the "tanker" hope they are wrong........"We are fans Too!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I think we are trending in the right direction, and it will never be as fast as us fans want it to be. We are slowly moving out older higher priced players albeit for small returns or none at all. This Trade Deadline I am hoping we try to move as much assets out as possible. I would like them to target prospects over picks as that helps the rebuild. We need to target some younger grit with size that could be a younger version of say Prust. We need the size as our division is on the bigger size. Players with size can still have skill and speed. A young promising D prospect with offensive instincts and a right shot should also be a target. The youth will get better as they mature mentally and physically. This is a key deadline, draft and free agency upcoming. We can move out some contracts for assets, draft a good prospect hopefully in the top 10 and we have some $ to spend to target 1 or 2 fairly good free agents. I think now through the off season is going to shape our team quite a bit. We also will be looking to make some more moves going into this time next year with some more contracts going off the books. I would be all for Benning making a BOLD move, targeting a highly skilled player who has been a disappointment since entering the league. It can be a risk, but our GM doesnt seem to shy away from these types of deals and I hope he continues. It may not be as easy as a 2nd round pick for baer type of deal but if the price is right I would love for him to target Yakupov. I think yakupov could excel with a change of scenary and come to a stable team with good veterans around him. I know many may not like the idea, I hope it doesnt start a bunch of bashing. I don't know what it would cost, again I wouldn't overpay for him, but all he has been through with Edmonton you never hear him whine about ice time or anything. Having Bure as his Idol may be even more motivation for him if he came here. I am unsure if Chiarelli would deal him in the division, Benning has been fine making those kinds of trades, Chiarelli has yet to start making his stamp on the team. Anyways my take is, I will always cheer for the Canucks, I was disappointed to see Shinkaruk go, but I am hoping Granlund pans out. Lets hope to see more ice time for the young guys the rest of the way out and maybe a couple College free agent signings aswell, nothing like a free prospect asset wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Speculating about the future is always just that... Speculation. Personally I think the team has quite a good selection of young players, and with the way this season is progressing, its likely we'll acquire some new hi-end talent through the draft. It is also likely, we'll pick up some more skill via trades. Right now my conservative estimation says we have the following in our young Canuck players cupboard: (players we will keep) Horvat: Either a First or Second liner, at this point I'm leaning towards 1st line skill. Virtanen: Same as above... probably more likely second line, but you can't tell with power forwards, they always mature later and he is very young... he could be a monster first liner too. Baertschi: Either 1st, 2nd or 3rd line... I think the jury is out on this one... I love his skill, nose for the puck and opportunism, but he gets pushed around a lot. Right now, I'd say 2nd... but he could show another jump to 1st line goalscoring ability, or he could lose focus and slide to 3rd. Hutton: 1st D pair and PP Quarterback in my opinion... but that is contingent on the GM finding a big physical D Man, (220 lbs) for him to partner with when playing even strength... playing with Tanev is a mismatch. But he already shows the PP skills and the overall smarts to fill this role. McCann: I think he is a 2nd line center... but he needs some good strong fast wingers for his skills to shine... playing with grinders is not working for him. I am very much looking forward to seeing Brendan Gaunce come up and play with McCann... maybe not this season, but next for sure. I think Gaunce would be an ideal complement to McCann. Etem: 3rd or very good 4th liner... I think he is a slow developer... never will be a big scorer, but could eventually be the guy who really provides the spark for a strong 3rd line... a bigger, better Dorsett... and he's built for the playoffs. Markstrom: Future top ten ranking in the league... Starter... no need to say more. The rest of the prospects are either in Utica and unproven or still in junior/college. From Utica, as mentioned, I like Gaunce... I think he is a shoo-in for the team next year. Size, speed, likes to be physical and has decent hands. Of those who are in Junior, obviously you have to look at Demko. This kid is totally devastating the opposition... he is putting up performances which suggest someone of the calibre of Miller when he was young. Six foot four, 200 lbs, fits the profile perfectly, think he is definitely a #1, perhaps a future Vezina winner? Brock Boeser is also lighting up the College league, he has decent size, great speed, great hands... juries out on his defensive skills, but if he is the potential 1st liner which at the moment seems to be indicated, then it doesn't matter that much. We are undoubtably going to pick up more talent with trades of older players and signing of free agents. So from my perspective, we actually are doing well with our development... a contending team is likely minimum 2 years... maximum 4 years away, but I like the way things are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucklehead73 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Lets look at the current top 10 point getters in the NHL drafted in what Round/# Kane 1/1 Benn 5/129 Seguin 1/2 Karlsson 1/15 Kuznetsov 1/26 Gaudreau 4/104 Panarin Not drafted Crosby 1/1 Wheeler 1/5 Pavelski 7/215 Definitely a lot of high first rounders there, but a lot of drafting results are luck, insight and personal growth of a players. Add in the fact we drafted the Sedins together and didn't win a cup kinda makes the "elite" players no guarantee... I only say this for anyone thinking a top 5 pick is the "only" way to get a cup winning player. You need good scouts, luck and good instincts and then you need that development cycle to produce players. Granted it's nice to draft the Kanes, Crosbys and Seguins but it's never a guarantee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 I would like to say, that in the majority of cases......the team that drafted the player, knows the player better than any other team.........so if they give up on them................they are saying the pick has a greater value than the prospect.......in their opinion, which like I said........they have a better idea of the prospect than anyone else And yes..........teams get lucky sometimes And as much as I liked Shinkaruk.........we traded him for a guy that couldn't catch on with his first team, so it says a lot about Shinkaruk, not so much about the player he was traded for Unless you want to believe Willie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said: Lets look at the current top 10 point getters in the NHL drafted in what Round/# Kane 1/1 Benn 5/129 Seguin 1/2 Karlsson 1/15 Kuznetsov 1/26 Gaudreau 4/104 Panarin Not drafted Crosby 1/1 Wheeler 1/5 Pavelski 7/215 Definitely a lot of high first rounders there, but a lot of drafting results are luck, insight and personal growth of a players. Add in the fact we drafted the Sedins together and didn't win a cup kinda makes the "elite" players no guarantee... I only say this for anyone thinking a top 5 pick is the "only" way to get a cup winning player. You need good scouts, luck and good instincts and then you need that development cycle to produce players. Granted it's nice to draft the Kanes, Crosbys and Seguins but it's never a guarantee... Nice work. I don't think there is anyone, anywhere who thinks a top 5 pick guarantees anything though. It just makes winning a cup more likely. Here are some stats.....in the twenty years 1991-2010....the chance of drafting an all star for the pick range: 1-5....49% 6-10....18% 11-15....25% 16-20....8% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktowncanuck00 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 We were spoiled for a few years. Now it's back to reality. I honestly have little faith in benning. I think his approach is 1 dimensional. Trying to find too many guys that are too similar. Hence getting rid of shink. I think a little diversity is good. Our prospect pool is anemic. Can benning fix it? Who knows I hate to say it but I doubt benning is the right man for the job. That's my opinion. Time will tell. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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