Stamkos

Discussion: 2017 NHL draft

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I think the Canucks draft is going to end up coming down to Vilardi VS Mittelstadt, and I've got a feeling JB is swinging towards Mittelstatd. Here's my rough breakdown:

 

AGE: Vilardi is a year younger, meaning he has an extra year of developing, could get a year better

SIZE: Both are pretty much the same size and physicality. Vilardi has a bigger frame and because he's younger, he may well fill out into it a bit more

ROLE: Mittelstatd is more of a playmaking center, Vilardi has nice hands in tight and a bit more of a scorer but both are decent playmakers

PRODUCTION: Hard to compare leagues but as a 17 year old Vilardi is well over a point per game in the OHL, around 1.25-1.5 PPG which is damn impressive if he continues to improve at that trajectory. If he does he might put up Strome-like numbers. Mittelstatd has been decent but we'll see how he goes in the NCAA and the knock on him is that the majority of his points come on the powerplay.

 

To be honest can't go wrong with either pick, I'd lean towards Vilardi in the hope that we develop him properly and leave him to cook in the juniors for 2 more years then a year in the AHL and then the NHL, so at least 3 years off which is sort of where Juolevi, Virtanen and Boeser are looking to hit their prime in the NHL anyway. Mittelstatd would probably only take a couple of years to get to the NHL level. 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

One concerning thing about Middlestadt I think is how many of his points comes on the powerplay vs 5 on 5.

 

He has the skill level but will he be able to be a big point producer at ES in the NHL.

So a power play specialist? Lord knows that would actually be a welcome addition. 

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Pears said:

So a power play specialist? Lord knows that would actually be a welcome addition. 

I definitely agree we need someone to help the PP.

 

But if he gets to the NHL and becomes more of a 2nd line guy who's also good on the PP rather than a true frontline forward, are you comfortable with that knowing the potential of some of the other guys that could be available at that pick.

 

We need to hit on this pick desperately after blowing the Virtanen pick. (as far as the BPA, more-so offensively)

Edited by Smashian Kassian
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13 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I definitely agree we need someone to help the PP.

 

But if he gets to the NHL and becomes more of a 2nd line guy who's also good on the PP rather than a true frontline forward, are you comfortable with that knowing the potential of some of the other guys that could be available at that pick.

 

We need to hit on this pick desperately after blowing the Virtanen pick. (as far as the BPA, more-so offensively)

 

Goes back to core scouting though, doesn't it? Ultimately...

 

Mittlestadt appears a bit more dynamic in terms of both skills (electric dangles & puck possession, shot, ability to thread dimes as passes) & athletic attributes such as agility, power, raw speed? Where Vilardi seems to be getting it done on better reads of the play, positioning, hockey sense, battle & compete levels. Not that he's lacking athletic ability, he's being considered as a top ten pick. And you would think with those skills, Casey would also thrive 5 on 5?  Just one stands out more on each side of the equation?

 

I would normally advocate we err to the athleticism and skills component. I wanted Nylander a couple of years ago. At the next level that extra speed, explosiveness, is usually more likely to allow you to carve out an advantage? McKinnon, with his package, in a different example, will always be hard to stop.

 

(But I also argued against taking Tkachuk, a bit slower, relying on game play, compete level more than higher end skill last year.)  (Or Adam Oates? There are guys that are just good, without all the physical gifts. But honestly, its harder to project them as achieving elite levels...)

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There are so many strong centers in this draft, going to be hard to make a big mistake here. 

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On 01/04/2017 at 0:58 PM, cyoung said:

Just size. He could very well be the best player in the draft haha

What about Kaizer Yamaha?

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Craig Button said Martin Neck ass has Claude Giroux like skill and creativity at the same age.

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4 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

Craig Button said Martin Neck ass has Claude Giroux like skill and creativity at the same age.

That's some upper echelon auto-correct right there.

 

:lol:

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17 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

What about Kaizer Yamaha?

He was my favorite if we were drafting outside top 10

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Posted (edited)

On 4/2/2017 at 2:28 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

Goes back to core scouting though, doesn't it? Ultimately...

 

Mittlestadt appears a bit more dynamic in terms of both skills (electric dangles & puck possession, shot, ability to thread dimes as passes) & athletic attributes such as agility, power, raw speed? Where Vilardi seems to be getting it done on better reads of the play, positioning, hockey sense, battle & compete levels. Not that he's lacking athletic ability, he's being considered as a top ten pick. And you would think with those skills, Casey would also thrive 5 on 5?  Just one stands out more on each side of the equation?

 

I would normally advocate we err to the athleticism and skills component. I wanted Nylander a couple of years ago. At the next level that extra speed, explosiveness, is usually more likely to allow you to carve out an advantage? McKinnon, with his package, in a different example, will always be hard to stop.

 

(But I also argued against taking Tkachuk, a bit slower, relying on game play, compete level more than higher end skill last year.)  (Or Adam Oates? There are guys that are just good, without all the physical gifts. But honestly, its harder to project them as achieving elite levels...)

 
 
 
 
 
 

I haven't seen enough of Mittlestadt personally to know if the discrepancy in 5on5 points vs PP points is just a coincidence or if there is any reason for it. Its just something I wonder about as a fan, but thankfully the Aquillini's pay people to figure that stuff out. If people with more viewings than me feel its nothing then I'm fine with it. I certainly like the skill & speed elements to Casey's game its just something I wonder about as far as NHL potential.

 

Both he and Vilardi could very well have similar upsides just playing different style of games, although I think the same could be said of other guys that could be available around where we are picking aswell. We just gotta figure out which one has the highest upside combined with who you feel is the most likely to hit it.

 

I think Pettersson could have the highest after the top 2 picks but its a question of whether he will bulk up enough to hit it. Vilardi seems to be somewhat of a safe bet to be a top 6 guy. Mittelstadt is an interesting case, from my standpoint hard to get a read on but has the skill & enough size to be a good top 6 forward or maybe more.

 

I think there is alot of upside to these guys but also questions aswell. (including Necas & Glass too)

Edited by Smashian Kassian
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1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I haven't seen enough of Mittlestadt personally to know if the discrepancy in 5on5 points vs PP points is just a coincidence or if there is any reason for it. Its just something I wonder about as a fan, but thankfully the Aquillini's pay people to figure that stuff out. If people with more viewings than me feel its nothing then I'm fine with it. I certainly like the skill & speed elements to Casey's game its just something I wonder about as far as NHL potential.

 

Both he and Vilardi could very well have similar upsides just playing different style of games, although I think the same could be said of other guys that could be available around where we are picking aswell. We just gotta figure out which one has the highest upside combined with who you feel is the most likely to hit it.

 

I think Pettersson could have the highest after the top 2 picks but its a question of whether he will bulk up enough to hit it. Vilardi seems to be somewhat of a safe bet to be a top 6 guy. Mittelstadt is an interesting case, from my standpoint hard to get a read on but has the skill & enough size to be a good top 6 forward or maybe more.

 

I think there is alot of upside to these guys but also questions aswell. (including Necas & Glass too)

 

Good reply, thanks.  

 

I can't honestly say I get to see enough to make a judgement call. So I was speaking from personal experience dating back to playing and coaching. But in general terms and trying to read as much as possible into scouting reports.  Allthough in small sample sizes, Mittlestadt displayed adept quickness, agility. And he hung on to the puck. Also owning size, he did it with guys hanging on to him. Drove to the net.  That usually translates.

 

  

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29 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Good reply, thanks.  

 

I can't honestly say I get to see enough to make a judgement call. So I was speaking from personal experience dating back to playing and coaching. But in general terms and trying to read as much as possible into scouting reports.  Allthough in small sample sizes, Mittlestadt displayed adept quickness, agility. And he hung on to the puck. Also owning size, he did it with guys hanging on to him. Drove to the net.  That usually translates.

 

  

To me that sounds a bit like Virtanen. I'm ok with picking him, but we have to be careful in calling him up

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1 minute ago, Stamkos said:

To me that sounds a bit like Virtanen. I'm ok with picking him, but we have to be careful in calling him up

Virtanen has the speed and power.

 

But electric agility? Dangles, the ability to handle the puck under pressure??

 

Nope!

 

Different guy...

 

 

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But, Who's counting!

 

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On 04/04/2017 at 3:33 PM, Stamkos said:

To me that sounds a bit like Virtanen. I'm ok with picking him, but we have to be careful in calling him up

Very different. 

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So I promised to add something on Martin Nečas. I tracked some data and watched him play in the Czech Extraliga.

 

The thing that scares me a little was a context in which he played the season. He started on the first line alongside Martin Erat and Marek Kvapil, two experienced guys and stars in the league. Then he was bumped around a lot. He was not trusted by coaches as he averaged drop more than a minute from period 1 to period 3 in time on ice. Then, he was used mainly in the offensive zone. His team won the title and his possession numbers were above average but considering the context, nothing special in my eyes. He was the creative guy on the ice most of the time, much more in playmaking role (paradoxically he had more goals than assists at even strength). When entering the zone he tried to carry the puck instead of dumping in but his share of zone entries was not big overall. He had 18% shooting percentage which is not easy to repeat. I liked his play in his own end. He was able to escape out of trouble or to find creative passes under pressure when on the puck. He has a quick feet and can use them for his advantage in these situations. 

 

To summarize, he had a solid season, he was aware in his own end. He showed creative plays resulting in zone exits or creating good position on offense. In my opinion he was not that exciting in zone entries and in offence generally (the question is what was his role on the ice). To compare, I liked Filip Chytil´s offensive game more. He is the most complete Czech prospect going into draft but I can see some warning flags here.

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2 hours ago, pmalina said:

To compare, I liked Filip Chytil´s offensive game more. He is the most complete Czech prospect going into draft but I can see some warning flags here.

I'll be happy with getting Makar (or Liljegren) at 5OA and Chytil at 33OA.

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5 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I'll be happy with getting Makar (or Liljegren) at 5OA and Chytil at 33OA.

Yeah, taking Chytil at 33 would not disappoint me at all.

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