Canadian Marijuana Legalization Bill Coming In Spring 2017

[derr12]

Like, wow man.

[RUPERTKBD]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 6:58 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Is there any way to test drivers for  DUI   under the influence of Pot ?

I think the officer holds a slice of pizza in front of the driver and if he makes a grab for it, you know he's baked...

[clam linguine]

On 12/20/2016 at 8:19 PM, kingofsurrey said:

 

Are these tests reasonable to be used roadside ?

Standard roadside tests for mental and physical acuity should determine a persons ability to drive. The breathalyzer should be canned,  Impairment is impairment no matter the cause. 

[Jägermeister]

Next up: Every other drug.

 

First step on the long road to a proper full-scale system of legalization and regulation for drugs.  Once more people can move past the moral outrage of "OMG DRUGSSS" and actually see the benefits that such a system would bring, we will finally start to see some real meaningful changes take place.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

9 minutes ago, Jägermeister said:

Next up: Every other drug.

 

First step on the long road to a proper full-scale system of legalization and regulation for drugs.  Once more people can move past the moral outrage of "OMG DRUGSSS" and actually see the benefits that such a system would bring, we will finally start to see some real meaningful changes take place.

One of the changes would be the use of crappy synthetics.  And if those synthetics were still used, they would be produced more in line with pharmaceutical drugs.  This means that there would be purity in ingredients used, consistent strength, and reliable dosage.  Overdoses would go WAY WAY down.  

 

However, I don't think that the people who have the moral outrage are intelligent enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  People gamble, work out, drink, do drugs, knit to "blow off steam", relax, have fun.  Why is one of the things I listed illegal??  They can't tell you a good reason.

[Jägermeister]

4 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

One of the changes would be the use of crappy synthetics.  And if those synthetics were still used, they would be produced more in line with pharmaceutical drugs.  This means that there would be purity in ingredients used, consistent strength, and reliable dosage.  Overdoses would go WAY WAY down.  

 

However, I don't think that the people who have the moral outrage are intelligent enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  People gamble, work out, drink, do drugs, knit to "blow off steam", relax, have fun.  Why is one of the things I listed illegal??  They can't tell you a good reason.

The younger generation in general tend to have a more liberal stance regarding drugs.

It will obviously take a loooong time before we get to that point, but I think it is something that we will be able to see in the next couple of decades.  At the very least I am hoping it is.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I can't see the benefits out waying the negatives of legalizing all drugs.  Someone is going to have to explain that one to me.  

[MusclePharm]

8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I can't see the benefits out waying the negatives of legalizing all drugs.  Someone is going to have to explain that one to me.  

We can start by addressing the negatives. What are some of your concerns with legalizing all drugs?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, MusclePharm said:

We can start by addressing the negatives. What are some of your concerns with legalizing all drugs?

Well first it would be addiction.  I've got a family member and multiple friends with their lives basically destroyed from cocaine, lost jobs, lost family, lost out on promising careers..  

 

Second would be something we have in Canada called a free health care.  Long term use of drugs causes health effects, I think it's dumb that free health care exist already when smoking tobacco is legal which plays a massive role in current health care costs.  Why should I or other non uses be paying for the choices of others?

 

Outside of making it safer for purchase and use, I can't see the benefits.  Those two thing certainly don't outway the negatives.  Any of the benefits people lists are largely just a pipe dream,

Black market still will exist, crime rates still will exist, drug usage will increase, what are the other benefits?  

[thejazz97]

4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Well first it would be addiction.  I've got a family member and multiple friends with their lives basically destroyed from cocaine, lost jobs, lost family, lost out on promising careers..  

 

Second would be something we have in Canada called a free health care.  Long term use of drugs causes health effects, I think it's dumb that free health care exist already when smoking tobacco is legal which plays a massive role in current health care costs.  Why should I or other non uses be paying for the choices of others?

 

Outside of making it safer for purchase and use, I can't see the benefits.  Those two thing certainly don't outweigh the negatives.  Any of the benefits people lists are largely just a pipe dream,

Black market still will exist, crime rates still will exist, drug usage will increase, what are the other benefits?  

 

Actually, if you legalize it, it won't be a "black" market anymore. 

 

Also, Switzerland has a heroin addict assistance program. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/drug-treatment_-without-the-heroin-programme-i-d-probably-be-dead-/37819830

The number of people diagnosed with HIV has dropped immensely, as has the number of addicts.

 

Crime rates will still exist, but with drug possession no longer being a crime, that'll drop too. Can you imagine if America did that? Their jails would be pretty empty (but considering how many prisons are privately owned, my guess is drugs will stay illegal for a long time).

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

 

Actually, if you legalize it, it won't be a "black" market anymore. 

 

Also, Switzerland has a heroin addict assistance program. http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/drug-treatment_-without-the-heroin-programme-i-d-probably-be-dead-/37819830

The number of people diagnosed with HIV has dropped immensely, as has the number of addicts.

 

Crime rates will still exist, but with drug possession no longer being a crime, that'll drop too. Can you imagine if America did that? Their jails would be pretty empty (but considering how many prisons are privately owned, my guess is drugs will stay illegal for a long time).

See those are just pipe dreams.

 

Colorado still has a massive and thriving black market for weed. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/legal-pot-and-the-black-market/481506/

 

This exist when you try to tax something, it simply keeps the cost higher than what a black market can provide.  Even in Canada there is a multi billion dollar tobacco black market. http://torontolife.com/city/ncact-sponsored-1/ Legalizing drugs will not eliminate the black market.

 

Ease of access will increase usage, the social stigma that drugs are bad will be reduced making it more accepted to use, thus increase in usage.   Likely not overnight, but as the next generation grows up, yes.  And again, drugs far more often negatively affect peoples lives rather than improving them.  It's that addiction, families destroyed, as I've said I've witnessed this first hand and it's heartbreaking to watch.  Even with smoking how many people say they love smoking?  Most attempt to quit, but with smoking at least people can still function in their everyday lives.
 

Quote

While there may be many individuals who turned to substance abuse as a means to cope with homelessness, there are undoubtedly many who ended up in this situation because of such abuse. Abusing alcohol and drugs can be highly detrimental to the life of the individual. It can rob them of everything including their job, family, possessions, and friends. Addiction always involves a downward trajectory that can easily lead to homelessness.

 

Sure crime of possession goes down but actual criminal activity goes up, people are more likely to commit crimes on drugs than not. Criminals commit six times more homicides, four times assaults, and almost one and a half times as many robberies under the influence of drugs. You're lumping drug motivated crimes into drug influence crimes. Talk to any first responder, the majority of their calls are drug influenced.

 

And again, health affects and free health care costs are a huge negative impact. Just look at the impact from smoking.

Quote

Of the estimated 4.7 million current smokers in Canada, up to half will become ill or die from continued tobacco use . Tobacco is a leading preventable cause of death in Canada, responsible for over 37,000 deaths annuallyii and about one third of cancer . The economic impact of tobacco use in Canada is also significant, with an estimated social cost of $17 billion per year . Recent estimates indicate that tobacco‐ related illness costs Canadians $4.4 billion in direct health care costs, and is responsible for 2.2 million acute care hospital days .

http://www.tobaccoreport.ca/2012/TobaccoUseinCanada_2012.pdf

 

Even the health affects of weed in Colorado has spiked

Quote

increases in these incidents were significant. Marijuana-related traffic deaths increased by 154 percent between 2006 and 2014; Colorado emergency room hospital visits that were “likely related” to marijuana increased by 77 percent from 2011 to 2014; and drug-related suspensions/expulsions increased 40 percent from school years 2008/2009 to 2013/2014, according to a September 2015 report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Traffic Area, a collaboration of federal, state and local drug enforcement agencies.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

 

Again why should I be paying for other peoples choices.  The only way legalizing all drugs makes any sense is in a more libertarian society, which i'm ok with.  But the way the Canada seems to be heading, we're moving in the opposite direction.  If legalizing all drugs means one additional family is destroyed due to over abuse, then the benefits don't out way the negatives.

 

  

[thejazz97]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

See those are just pipe dreams.

 

Colorado still has a massive and thriving black market for weed. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/legal-pot-and-the-black-market/481506/

 

This exist when you try to tax something, it simply keeps the cost higher than what a black market can provide.  Even in Canada there is a multi billion dollar tobacco black market. http://torontolife.com/city/ncact-sponsored-1/ Legalizing drugs will not eliminate the black market.

 

Fair enough, but it's making Colorado an absolute ton of money.

 

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Sure crime of possession goes down but actual criminal activity goes up, people are more likely to commit crimes on drugs than not. Criminals commit six times more homicides, four times assaults, and almost one and a half times as many robberies under the influence of drugs. You're lumping drug motivated crimes into drug influence crimes. Talk to any first responder, the majority of their calls are drug influenced.

 

And again, health affects and free health care costs are a huge negative impact. Just look at the impact from smoking.

http://www.tobaccoreport.ca/2012/TobaccoUseinCanada_2012.pdf

 

Tobacco kills. Weed doesn't unless it's laced.

 

3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Even the health affects of weed in Colorado has spiked

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/  

 

That's not health effects, that's just regular effects. Obviously impaired driving is bad. I'd like more info on the "likely related", and I can't comment on the suspensions/expulsions.

 

6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Again why should I be paying for other peoples choices.  The only way legalizing all drugs makes any sense is in a more libertarian society, which i'm ok with.  But the way the Canada seems to be heading, we're moving in the opposite direction.  If legalizing all drugs means one additional family is destroyed due to over abuse, then the benefits don't outweigh the negatives.

 

Why should you be paying for their choices? Because 1) they're people and they're your fellow Canadians, and 2) they pay for you if you're ever in a pinch. I understand where you're coming from, but there's no reason someone should go to jail for having/ingesting a plant.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, thejazz97 said:

 

Fair enough, but it's making Colorado an absolute ton of money.

Tobacco kills. Weed doesn't unless it's laced.

That's not health effects, that's just regular effects. Obviously impaired driving is bad. I'd like more info on the "likely related", and I can't comment on the suspensions/expulsions.

Why should you be paying for their choices? Because 1) they're people and they're your fellow Canadians, and 2) they pay for you if you're ever in a pinch. I understand where you're coming from, but there's no reason someone should go to jail for having/ingesting a plant.

I don't have a problem with weed, i like how the liberals are putting in the time to properly implement this. It's the hard drugs that don't provide benefit.  I've got tons of friends that smoke weed, and beside one broken neck from driving impaired it hasn't really effected their lives.  But I've watch family and friends lives destroyed by hard drugs, I watched people get to a point where they couldn't even handle a family function without being on something, they become abusive, to where their significant others left, lost their jobs, lost there homes, and ended up in the hospital trying to OD.  It's honestly not worth it and I don't see the benefits of legalizing hard drugs. 

 

 

[MilesFromHome]

I have a different perspective on this. I did not want it legalized. I thought, what a stupid thing to legalize knowing what we know about the damages of tobacco, alcohol etc when abused.

 

HOWEVER, I was in a car accident a year ago. I was tired of taking pills to dull the pain. A nurse suggested high cbd, low thc strains and vaping. After researching for several months and talking with multiple docs etc, I decided to try it. 

 

GAME CHANGER. I had trouble sleeping, not anymore. Pain and inflammation, substantially reduced. I didn't want the 'stoned' effect and with these strains available it is almost negligible. I have changed my stance and I am all for medicinal and open minded on recreational. 

[Gurn]

It is legal to grow your own tomatoes, but most people go to the grocery store.

Renouncing parts of international treaties regarding drug use can take a bit of time, that can explain much of the delay.

 

[Jägermeister]

13 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I can't see the benefits out waying the negatives of legalizing all drugs.  Someone is going to have to explain that one to me.  

I know it is just one example, but take a look at Portugal.  I'd recommend reading the entire article.  But at the very least take not of the two points I picked out.

Quote

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.LXIKBmLkD

Drug use has declined overall among the 15- to 24-year-old population, those most at risk of initiating drug use, according to Transform. 

There has also been a decline in the percentage of the population who have ever used a drug and then continue to do so:

 

 

People are going to use and abuse drugs regardless of legality.  Decriminalization has in certain cases shown to actually reduce drug usage and drug dependancy as it allows for a more comprehensive approach to combat the issues.

Fears of a drug craze occurring damaging individuals and society as a whole are generally unfounded thoughts stemming from the belief that drug laws are actually preventing people from using drugs.

 

 

[CBH1926]

On December 22, 2016 at 0:39 PM, thedestroyerofworlds said:

One of the changes would be the use of crappy synthetics.  And if those synthetics were still used, they would be produced more in line with pharmaceutical drugs.  This means that there would be purity in ingredients used, consistent strength, and reliable dosage.  Overdoses would go WAY WAY down.  

 

However, I don't think that the people who have the moral outrage are intelligent enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  People gamble, work out, drink, do drugs, knit to "blow off steam", relax, have fun.  Why is one of the things I listed illegal??  They can't tell you a good reason.

Did you just compare knitting with doing drugs?

[CBH1926]

On December 23, 2016 at 0:32 PM, Jägermeister said:

I know it is just one example, but take a look at Portugal.  I'd recommend reading the entire article.  But at the very least take not of the two points I picked out.

 

People are going to use and abuse drugs regardless of legality.  Decriminalization has in certain cases shown to actually reduce drug usage and drug dependancy as it allows for a more comprehensive approach to combat the issues.

Fears of a drug craze occurring damaging individuals and society as a whole are generally unfounded thoughts stemming from the belief that drug laws are actually preventing people from using drugs.

 

 

I rememembed when Swiss allowed drug use, needle exchange, and it was not crime to sell or use drugs.

Not sure how old you are, but Platzspitz in Zurich was one of the most horrendous places in Europe.

Finally they had to pull the plug on that place and clean it up.

 

I am old enough to remember 15-20 thousands drug users in one place, using, selling, stealing etc.

Even if drugs are legal you still have to be able to buy them, pure drugs would be expensive, just like weed.

I worked with few heroin addicts, almost all got fired because they were lethargic and were falling asleep after getting high.

 

 

 

 

 

[King Heffy]

 

On 12/23/2016 at 7:45 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don't have a problem with weed, i like how the liberals are putting in the time to properly implement this. It's the hard drugs that don't provide benefit.  I've got tons of friends that smoke weed, and beside one broken neck from driving impaired it hasn't really effected their lives.  But I've watch family and friends lives destroyed by hard drugs, I watched people get to a point where they couldn't even handle a family function without being on something, they become abusive, to where their significant others left, lost their jobs, lost there homes, and ended up in the hospital trying to OD.  It's honestly not worth it and I don't see the benefits of legalizing hard drugs. 

 

 

It''s pretty brutal to see someone you love to addiction.  One main benefit would be the ability to regulate potency/purity, which would lessen the chance of an OD.  Get rid of the Fentanyl laced garbage.  Second, getting another source of income away from organized crime is incredibly beneficial.    Third, dealers don't ask for ID.  Getting these drugs away from kids is important and regulating is the best way to do this. 

 

I'd take it a step further and give addicts free drugs in a safe environment.  You'd see  a huge decrease in property crime and prostitution as addicts would no longer have to resrot to these means to support their habits.

 

Our current strategy clearly isn't working.  It's time to try something different.

[aGENT]

Further movement on this topic:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minimum-income-hugh-segal-ontario-budget-1.3740373

 

Quote

Liberals to announce marijuana will be legal by July 1, 2018

Provinces will have right to decide how marijuana is distributed and sold, CBC News has learned

The Liberal government will announce legislation next month that will legalize marijuana in Canada by July 1, 2018.

 

CBC News has learned that the legislation will be announced during the week of April 10 and will broadly follow the recommendation of a federally appointed task force that was chaired by former liberal Justice Minister Anne McLellan.

 

Bill Blair, the former Toronto police chief who has been stickhandling the marijuana file for the government, briefed the Liberal caucus on the roll-out plan and the legislation during caucus meetings this weekend, according to a senior government official who spoke to CBC News on condition of anonymity.

 

(more in link)

That ought to help with the deficits