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Sven Baertschi | LW

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1 hour ago, khay said:

I like Baer. 

 

It might be due to rust but I don't think he is playing quite like he did before when he had the confidence to make small plays leading to nice assist or scoring chances. 

 

And it feels like he is a step behind the rest of the team, Canucks this season plays a fast paced game but it seems like Baer is lagging a step behind, kind of like Eriksson. He doesn't make mistakes but that's because he doesn't take any gamble, like Eriksson. Only a handful of games so it might be too soon to judge.

 

I think once Roussel and Ferland are back, Eriksson and Baer will not have a place on this team. They play safe but that's about it at the moment.

 

I am looking forward to Roussel's return as well.  I liked it last year when he played with Jake.  It seemed to give him confidence playing with Roussel and they even produced points as well but then Roussel got hurt.  Last I heard Roussel won't be back until mid to late December.  Have you heard anything new about when Roussel might be back?

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I was at the game yesterday and I though Baertschi looked alright to start, but his confidence was clearly shot once he got benched/bumped down in the 2nd period. That's one of the main things that annoys me with Green; he can give someone like Leivo or Pearson all year to get going in the lineup but someone like Baertschi or Goldobin get's punished after less than 2 games. Constantly looking over your shoulder wondering what the coach is thinking doesn't allows guys to play with confidence, which makes a noticeable difference in a player like Baertschi.

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1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

I was at the game yesterday and I though Baertschi looked alright to start, but his confidence was clearly shot once he got benched/bumped down in the 2nd period. That's one of the main things that annoys me with Green; he can give someone like Leivo or Pearson all year to get going in the lineup but someone like Baertschi or Goldobin get's punished after less than 2 games. Constantly looking over your shoulder wondering what the coach is thinking doesn't allows guys to play with confidence, which makes a noticeable difference in a player like Baertschi.

You know what that question   "why some and not others get bumped" kept running through my mind, I was at the game too. What struck me was the fact that players like Leivo/Pearson even if they're not having success they play the game right. I watched Leivo yesterdays game critically and what was apparent that even when not producing they play the game right, always take their man out, necessarily big hits just take the man out the play. Too many yesterday were doing fly by's. Baertschi did make contact occasionally but not consistently. The manner they played the game against NJ rather than St L was chalk and cheese. Maybe theu're reading their own press clippings :mellow:

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Just now, Fred65 said:

You know what that question   "why some and not others get bumped" kept running through my mind, I was at the game too. What struck me was the fact that players like Leivo/Pearson even if they're not having success they play the game right. I watched Leivo yesterdays game critically and what was apparent that even when not producing they play the game right, always take their man out, necessarily big hits just take the man out the play. Too many yesterday were doing fly by's. Baertschi did make contact occasionally but not consistently. The manner they played the game against NJ rather than St L was chalk and cheese. Maybe theu're reading their own press clippings :mellow:

 

Guys like Leivo and Pearson consistently do good work to get the puck and play moving in the right direction, but they don't generate anything all that possession. It's especially apparent with Pearson for me; he consistently makes an ill advised, rushed play where he puts it on net and kills any pressure and momentum we might have had. There is nothing behind the Pettersson line that can generate offense and threaten teams and it's very clear. 

 

To me, hitting someone after they've moved the puck is pointless (ie. avoiding a fly by) is pointless; just focus on getting back in the play and into position. You don't even need to do that to retrieve the puck. There was one play where Subban, who is much bigger and stronger than Baertschi, tried to cut around behind the net but Baertschi caught him and picked his pocket. You don't need to be 200 lbs to get the puck, although there definitely are situations where you need that. The difference is Baertschi can do something besides throw an ill advised shot on net int he offensive zone. Right now I think we have too much of one dynamic and not enough of another in the lineup behind the Pettersson. 

 

I also don't like how much line juggling there is in general. Virtanen played on 3 different lines it felt like yesterday. Baertschi got half a game to do something exceptional and got punished when he didn't. Gaudette actually did make a mistake that lead to Hall's breakaway, but benching him after that doesn't help him in my opinion. Leivo was moved all over, Pearson went up and down as well. Even the Pettersson line was broken up. I really don't like that approach. 

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It used to be said about Baertschi that he was a high skill player who would also go to the tough areas to make plays and score goals.  If he would do this, he would be the kind of player that Green would love and would never take out of the lineup.  I fully thought that he would return to that style of play once he got this second shot at an NHL career with this callup.  But I haven't seen any of that from him and don't know if I really ever have.  And that's why I don't think he has any future with this team, or probably even in this league.

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7 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

Guys like Leivo and Pearson consistently do good work to get the puck and play moving in the right direction, but they don't generate anything all that possession. It's especially apparent with Pearson for me; he consistently makes an ill advised, rushed play where he puts it on net and kills any pressure and momentum we might have had. There is nothing behind the Pettersson line that can generate offense and threaten teams and it's very clear. 

 

To me, hitting someone after they've moved the puck is pointless (ie. avoiding a fly by) is pointless; just focus on getting back in the play and into position. You don't even need to do that to retrieve the puck. There was one play where Subban, who is much bigger and stronger than Baertschi, tried to cut around behind the net but Baertschi caught him and picked his pocket. You don't need to be 200 lbs to get the puck, although there definitely are situations where you need that. The difference is Baertschi can do something besides throw an ill advised shot on net int he offensive zone. Right now I think we have too much of one dynamic and not enough of another in the lineup behind the Pettersson. 

 

I also don't like how much line juggling there is in general. Virtanen played on 3 different lines it felt like yesterday. Baertschi got half a game to do something exceptional and got punished when he didn't. Gaudette actually did make a mistake that lead to Hall's breakaway, but benching him after that doesn't help him in my opinion. Leivo was moved all over, Pearson went up and down as well. Even the Pettersson line was broken up. I really don't like that approach. 

On contraire amigo You should never let the oppoenent back into the play. You don't need to damage the guy just make sure you stall him in his attempt to get back in the play ….IMHO

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He has done squat on this cal up. Similar to previous outings. Not noticeable unless one is looking to see what number he is. 

 

He still gets pushed off the puck and he's soft. 

 

I've got nothing against this kid but he's no a fit any more. 

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1 hour ago, aqua59 said:

He has done squat on this cal up. Similar to previous outings. Not noticeable unless one is looking to see what number he is. 

 

He still gets pushed off the puck and he's soft. 

 

I've got nothing against this kid but he's no a fit any more. 

When Baertschi was in junior he scored a lot of points. He scored 2 ppg his last year and was compared to Iginla by some since he was a really tough and in your face player while generating both assists and goals. Not fighting of course bit in game effectiveness. The problem was he didn't seem to grow at all after junior or play with any grit either. He went from being an intimidating all over you type of player to more of a perimeter skill guy.

Edited by Gawdzukes

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I think Sven could be an effective playmaking left winger but needs to find the right line mates.  I think this is why he has been effective with Bo.  The problem with it is his concussion history is forcing him to become more of a peripheral player and the Canuck's just don't play like that anymore.  He just may need to be on a line or team that could use him more to his strengths.

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20 hours ago, aqua59 said:

He has done squat on this cal up. Similar to previous outings. Not noticeable unless one is looking to see what number he is. 

 

He still gets pushed off the puck and he's soft. 

 

I've got nothing against this kid but he's no a fit any more. 

Soft would equate to someone being a perimeter player, someone who is not willing to initiate battles along the boards, a player who stays further from the net, and who dislike taking hits to make a play.

 

Do you even watch him play?  Baertschi is constantly engaged and battling... he just isn't he biggest guy.  Sven is actually a more truculent player compared to even Virtanen.  

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On 11/11/2019 at 1:24 PM, Fred65 said:

You know what that question   "why some and not others get bumped" kept running through my mind, I was at the game too. What struck me was the fact that players like Leivo/Pearson even if they're not having success they play the game right. I watched Leivo yesterdays game critically and what was apparent that even when not producing they play the game right, always take their man out, necessarily big hits just take the man out the play. Too many yesterday were doing fly by's. Baertschi did make contact occasionally but not consistently. The manner they played the game against NJ rather than St L was chalk and cheese. Maybe theu're reading their own press clippings :mellow:

I have been quite willing to cut both Person and Leivo some slack so far this year because their ozone play has helped puck possession TOI. They can win board battles and play a heavy enough game that opposing teams cannot run the Canuck offense away. They do get their scoring ops, particularly Leivo. It has to pay off eventually. They have great skating. 

 

I agree with your Baer observations. His game has picked up a bit but I have to ask whether that makes a long term dif. How many points does Baer have to score during the regular season to warrant keeping him and can he score that much? The more points he scores the more physicality he will face. I don't see it. I am still hoping that JB can move him.  

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17 hours ago, dpn1 said:

I think Sven could be an effective playmaking left winger but needs to find the right line mates.  I think this is why he has been effective with Bo.  The problem with it is his concussion history is forcing him to become more of a peripheral player and the Canuck's just don't play like that anymore.  He just may need to be on a line or team that could use him more to his strengths.

The shot maps since his recall are available.  His shots come from the scoring areas.

 

He had the highest expected goals per 60 on the team last season while taking few shots.  It's not possible to have that high numbers without shooting from prime scoring locations.  He also had the lowest average shot length on the team at 21ft. 

 

Edited by mll
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39 minutes ago, mll said:

The shot maps since his recall are available.  His shots come from the scoring areas.

 

He had the highest expected goals per 60 on the team last season while taking few shots.  It's not possible to have that high numbers without shooting from prime scoring locations.  He also had the lowest average shot length on the team at 21ft. 

 

these maps are interesting: https://icydata.hockey/players/222/sven-baertschi

 

I like these because there isn't a lot of room for interpretation, the shots come from where they come from. Baer is well above league avg shooting from high % places. 

 

You could argue that his goal totals should be a lot higher maybe but he does get to the right spots. 

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

these maps are interesting: https://icydata.hockey/players/222/sven-baertschi

 

I like these because there isn't a lot of room for interpretation, the shots come from where they come from. Baer is well above league avg shooting from high % places. 

 

You could argue that his goal totals should be a lot higher maybe but he does get to the right spots. 

He led the Canucks in goals per 60 last season.  He has been effective in the minutes played.  

 

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1 minute ago, mll said:

He led the Canucks in goals per 60 last season.  He has been effective in the minutes played.  

 

no doubt. Its just surprising that he's never cracked 20 goals, even with the health issues. Its a small sample size so far this year but he's shooting from the right places.

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35 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Maybe they're show casing him ?

Hope so but what exactly is he showing?

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Baer's game has improved steadily. His set up for Gaudette was a beaut. It does not change my opinion that there is no long term spot for him on this roster. Hoping JB can find a trade for him. 

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11 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Baer's game has improved steadily. His set up for Gaudette was a beaut. It does not change my opinion that there is no long term spot for him on this roster. Hoping JB can find a trade for him. 

We have some depth now.  Injuries happen, and now we have a guy like Baer to fill in.  Having guys who can fill in and be decent allows us to keep in that playoff spot.  

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19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We have some depth now.  Injuries happen, and now we have a guy like Baer to fill in.  Having guys who can fill in and be decent allows us to keep in that playoff spot.  

Ya, I want this young group to have some playoff experience and Baer could be a reason they get there. It doesn't change my priority which is the development timeline. Serious CUP contention in 3 seasons. Baer won't be on that team. Because of that I would prefer that he is traded for a pick. I rather his TOI go towards a player who compliments a heavier game or is developing towards being a piece for 3 years out. For example a rotation of players like Big Mac from Utica. When the injured return it will force a decision.  

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