cdubuya Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) This is the scary part that so many don't understand. He has to be on the team next season, yet the same lame argument is that we are stupid for wanting to draft a 18 year old in the 2nd round instead of taking a chance on a former 1st rounder. The fact is I want and hope he is a very good player for us but if he isn't well then we tossed away a 2nd rounder. Chiiiiillll Winston. Every team tosses away 2nd rounders every now and again. Our 2nd could be the next PK Subban. It could also be the next Taylor Ellington. I for one am a little excited about this gamble. And after a short stint in Utica we will get to see him with the big boys next year. Edited March 3, 2015 by cdubuya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 AGAIN the BOOM is worth the risk. NINO was in the same situation now look at him. 20 goal scorer looks like a lock for 20 40-50 points Not sure I agree. That said I do hope for the best. No, we would have taken a gamble on a young player we believed had alot of potential. No different than drafting a player. If it takes 5 years for a player to bust, or 1, they're still a bust. Pushing out the time frame doesn't increase the odds. Well fair enough. However it's always nice to groom your own prospect for 4 years. Again the talent is there for SB he just has to put it all together, and if he does we will have a very good player imo. It's just that's it's pretty much make or break I would have preferred that he not be so rushed sorta speak with respect to waivers, but again that said he himself claims he is ready for full time nhl duty so let's hope he is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You have never changed if I don't agree with you I'm arguing, kinda like my wife.. I told you in the other thread, The potential is there, he skates great and has offensive flare for sure however his complete game isn't there but that can be taught. The scary part is the waiver eligibility next season, not sure why you don't get that instead you knock everyone that suggests we should have used that pick in the draft, why? Because it's not your opinion? Usually because I disagree with what you have to say. It's usually based on negative assumptions, and fearing the worst. I don't find it scary that he has to be on the team. Vey is in the same situation right now, and is it really hurting our team to have him up here? No. If anything I think Vey has built his value up enough that if we wanted to trade him, we could get a 2nd back for him. If you believe in your farm team and coaching to get the most out of this young guys, then you gotta give them young guys to try and mold. I provided many logical reasons that this was a good move and showed you the odds of second round picks panning out. Your argument seems to be based around, "well this could happen, so we should do this instead". Choosing to keep the 2nd round pick isn't necessarily the safer bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster6 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 So glad the prospect section exists. This section seems to attract more reasonable posters who wanna have actual discussions about prospects, rather than have circular arguments for the sake of it. I swear it's like banging your head against the wall trying to talk about a prospect in the Trades, Rumors, and Signings section. So many people there don't even know who the player is or care to learn about them. It's the same old tired arguments: "He couldn't even crack the Flames roster"..."He's too soft"..."He's too small"..."A second round pick will turn out way better than him".... People have written Baertschi off before he's play one game in our organization. They seem to perceive this glorious second round pick as the perfect prospect that will have no ups and down or flaws to their game. It's ridiculous. It's the mysteriousness of the unknown that's appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnScott Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Is it time to come up with nicknames? I'm not down to say Baertschi for the next few years Bert or Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 It's the mysteriousness of the unknown that's appealing. I get that part. The pick holds unlimited value until it's used. But the thing is, as soon as it's used it typically decreases in value. Because it's no longer an opportunity to take this guy or that guy, it becomes one player that you have 4 or 5 years to invest time and effort into and hope for the best. And even after all that it comes down to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliewud Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 yo deniro, do you think linden vey will be on the team next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 yo deniro, do you think linden vey will be on the team next year? I don't see why not. His point totals are pretty good for a rookie. On pace for 31 points. He only has one less point than Matthias, and 5 less than Higgins and Hansen. If he wants to be a long term player on this team though, he's gotta work on his strength. His ability to battle along the boards isn't good enough yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Wow dudes... this has already devolved into a personal battle thread, prospect threads don't usually do that, certainly not on page 5. I think this trade is a steal! He's a great prospect, and no matter how u look at it, be it a 2nd for a 1st or 48th for 13th, we win this trade. Even the old saying 'the best player wins the trade', well we got the best player and traded a pick that we can only hope will be like him. As for Baertschi, he's had a tough road into the NHL, as he has dealt with some adversity in a turbulent Flames system which has seen management changes and partial rebuilds which would slow any prospect's development. Team 1040 right now is replaying his earlier interview, from which he claimed (paraphrase) "I want to get some confidence, I play better with confidence". He's a guy that's just looking to get his feet under him, from being up and down the last few seasons with Calgary. It's pretty clear that they don't know how to develop a prospect beyond moving them right to the NHL (see Gaudreau, Monahan). Sink or swim only works for a handful of the highly elite prospects. Anyways, from last season he was recalled 3 different times, causing his consistency to be a little screwed. He also dealt with an injury in the middle of the season. Going back 2 years to 2012-2013, 9 of his 10 points that season came in April (7 games). He's a guy that's clearly on the verge of breaking into the NHL, just Calgary had yet to commit to him. I think he's a guy that leap frogs our prospect chart over the likes of Jensen, Gaunce, and Shinkaruk. He's one of those rare players that can create offense with his speed and be able to actually make plays and stick handle at top speed. Not concerned about his size at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) You'll forgive my lack of faith. I'm not crapping on the trade, I just don't have tons of faith in our scouting dept. In this case, the scout was Benning. In his press conference Benning said that when he scouted Sven he thought he was "the best player in Junior". And his numbers were outstanding. As an 18 year old he had 85 pts in 66 games in the WHL, and as a 19 year old he had 94 pts in 47 games. This is even better than Linden Vey, who had 72 pts in 71 games as an 18 year-old and 116 pts in 69 games as a 19 year old (to lead the WHL in scoring). The question is why hasn't Sven developed more quickly. As Benning put it he "does not know what went wrong in Calgary". Or how does Gaudreau do so well in Calgary despite being almost a year younger and smaller than Sven? It is obviously not a bias against young guys or smaller guys. Sven and Vey are both still lottery tickets. Realistically, both need to be top 6 players as they do not really have the physical game or the defensive game to be effective bottom 6 players. But let's hope they both work out. With Horvat, Virtanen, and McCann that could be the future core of forwards. And maybe Kassian joins that group. And Kenins looks like he could be a keeper as a bottom 6 player (a bit like a young Hansen except with better hands). The other prospects (Jensen, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Grenier) will have to step up their game if they are going to make the big team any time soon (or any time at all). Edited March 3, 2015 by JamesB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinDrive Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Nickname: Bear Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 In this case, the scout was Benning. In his press conference Benning said that when he scouted Sven he thought he was "the best player in Junior". And his numbers were outstanding. As an 18 year old he had 85 pts in 66 games in the WHL, and as a 19 year old he had 94 pts in 47 games. This is even better than Linden Vey, who had 72 pts in 71 games as an 18 year-old and 116 pts in 69 games as a 19 year old (to lead the WHL in scoring). The question is why hasn't Sven developed more quickly. As Benning put it he "does not know what went wrong in Calgary". Or how does Gaudreau do so well in Calgary despite being almost a year younger and smaller than Sven? It is obviously not a bias against young guys or smaller guys. Sven and Vey are both still lottery tickets. Realistically, both need to be top 6 players as they do not really have the physical game or the defensive game to be effective bottom 6 players. But let's hope they both work out. With Horvat, Virtanen, and McCann that could be the future core of forwards. And maybe Kassian joins that group. And Kenins looks like he could be a keeper as a bottom 6 player (a bit like a young Hansen except with better hands). The other prospects (Jensen, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Grenier) will have to step up their game if they are going to make the big team any time soon (or any time at all). From what I've heard from Flames fans, they're none too pleased with how the organization developed him. It is a bit of a questionable how a guy with his potential suddenly fell out of favour with Calgary so quickly, and considering he apparently asked for a trade, its not unfair to wonder what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I know Craig Button isn't the most liked sports media person around but he mentioned on TSN1040 that Baertschi's slowed development was partly due to immaturity. Button basically said that his early success and general view of himself got to his head a little and he didn't respond that well to some of the way he was being handled. I'm willing to believe Button since his brother works in the Flames organization and would have a first-hand look at the way their prized prospect was developing. That being said, Button also said that the Canucks are getting a much more mature player who has experienced first-hand where that sort of attitude gets you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucks_092 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I know Craig Button isn't the most liked sports media person around but he mentioned on TSN1040 that Baertschi's slowed development was partly due to immaturity. Button basically said that his early success and general view of himself got to his head a little and he didn't respond that well to some of the way he was being handled. I'm willing to believe Button since his brother works in the Flames organization and would have a first-hand look at the way their prized prospect was developing. That being said, Button also said that the Canucks are getting a much more mature player who has experienced first-hand where that sort of attitude gets you. Hope so, IMO him and shinkaruk are gonna be fighting for the same roster spot 2 small skilled guys... Wasent a fan of Sven during the draft when flames took him I could see a possible how does a Zach parise-lite comparison sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucks_092 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Oops double post. Edited March 3, 2015 by nucks_092 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 heard it on my way home, it was a really good interview actually. Here it is: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/button-change-of-scenery-helps-baertschi-1.220790 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I have to say that Benning's done a great job developing Baertschi in the last 9 1/2 hours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 So much for not trading draft picks, but I guess again, Benning is fast forwarding these picks into more ready players. He seems to be trending in the wrong direction though. Lol Sven is money. We robbed Calgary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Lol Sven is money. We robbed Calgary. you can thank Kassian for that 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Talk about a minor league rivalry. The Comets have beaten the Adirondack Flames 9 out of 10 times this year, with the 1 and only loss coming just a few days ago against a depleted Comets roster. Could this have had anything to do with Baers willingness to join the Canucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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