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Henrik Sedin | #33 | C

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1 minute ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

I think next year you offer both of them at least 2x6M as leaders of the team and community!

I think you offer them one year at $4-$5M for one year if at all. They are some of my favourite players, but they're not worth $6M a year.

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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

I think you offer them one year at $4-$5M for one year if at all. They are some of my favourite players, but they're not worth $6M a year.

They aren't worth $4-5M either. Frankly $1-2M is the max they should be given by the team to continue to play in a dwindling role. There is absolutely no sound reason to pay the Sedins $4-5M a season, when the team needs to complete the transition to a younger, stronger, faster and more competitive team. Let's not forget that they're going to be 38 in 2018. This team has benefited greatly from their veteran presence in the last few years as newer, younger players have taken greater roles with the team. Frankly, Linden and Benning shouldn't re-sign them in the offseason. The Sedins should really consider retirement.

 

Now some of those younger players are more than capable of taking the reins from them. They have shown glimpses of past glory this season, but the fact is that they are still in the twilight of their careers.

 

The team needs to make room for other players in the roster. Having $14M coming off the books would be huge for signing some younger free agents who could really fill a role going forward that can't be filled by a prospect in either Utica or other leagues.

 

I respect what the Sedins have brought to the team, but I also respect what Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, Schneider, and others who have been traded from the team have brought. In my mind, they are no different. Bringing them back for another season wouldn't be a very good idea and would deny younger, more capable players the opportunity to win a roster spot.

Edited by PhillipBlunt

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12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

They aren't worth $4-5M either. Frankly $1-2M is the max they should be given by the team to continue to play in a dwindling role. There is absolutely no sound reason to pay the Sedins $4-5M a season, when the team needs to complete the transition to a younger, stronger, faster and more competitive team. Let's not forget that they're going to be 38 in 2018. This team has benefited greatly from their veteran presence in the last few years as newer, younger players have taken greater roles with the team. Frankly, Linden and Benning shouldn't re-sign them in the offseason. The Sedins should really consider retirement.

 

Now some of those younger players are more than capable of taking the reins from them. They have shown glimpses of past glory this season, but the fact is that they are still in the twilight of their careers.

 

The team needs to make room for other players in the roster. Having $14M coming off the books would be huge for signing some younger free agents who could really fill a role going forward that can't be filled by a prospect in either Utica or other leagues.

 

I respect what the Sedins have brought to the team, but I also respect what Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, Schneider, and others who have been traded from the team have brought. In my mind, they are no different. Bringing them back for another season wouldn't be a very good idea and would deny younger, more capable players the opportunity to win a roster spot.

I can see it both ways. If the twins can actually improve this year and show that last year was more of a blip than a sign of the end, then I don't see why we shouldn't keep them. Their roles are already diminishing and I don't see a problem with creating internal competition within the team. Horvat, Baertschi, and Boeser proved they were a better line than the line of the twins. Now the twins are pushing back to compete for minutes again. Without the twins, we'll sorely lack a second line unless Pettersson is ready. Even if Pettersson is ready, it'd be pretty neat for the Sedins to mentor him as well as they have mentored Horvat, Boeser, and frankly, the rest of the team. Obviously, if this is just a short positive stint and the end off the same or worse than last year, I'd prefer they just call it quits, but if they still have it in them to be 50-60 point players, that's still solid top-6 performance levels and at $4M, would be a bargain. However, I see no reason to force them out of hockey if they still have some game left in them; they should be the only ones forcing themselves out of the game if they can no longer play at a serviceable level.

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It is too early this year to suggest a contract or money amount for next year. Older guys may fall apart as the season goes on, being overplayed right now may not help later as well.

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4 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I can see it both ways. If the twins can actually improve this year and show that last year was more of a blip than a sign of the end, then I don't see why we shouldn't keep them. Their roles are already diminishing and I don't see a problem with creating internal competition within the team. Horvat, Baertschi, and Boeser proved they were a better line than the line of the twins. Now the twins are pushing back to compete for minutes again. Without the twins, we'll sorely lack a second line unless Pettersson is ready. Even if Pettersson is ready, it'd be pretty neat for the Sedins to mentor him as well as they have mentored Horvat, Boeser, and frankly, the rest of the team. Obviously, if this is just a short positive stint and the end off the same or worse than last year, I'd prefer they just call it quits, but if they still have it in them to be 50-60 point players, that's still solid top-6 performance levels and at $4M, would be a bargain. However, I see no reason to force them out of hockey if they still have some game left in them; they should be the only ones forcing themselves out of the game if they can no longer play at a serviceable level.

A question of term and even the amount of money. 1 year deal with no trade restrictions based on a hard look at the prospects and which vets will be carried over. 

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7 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I can see it both ways. If the twins can actually improve this year and show that last year was more of a blip than a sign of the end, then I don't see why we shouldn't keep them. Their roles are already diminishing and I don't see a problem with creating internal competition within the team.

The mention of internal competition is kind of a misnomer as some spots, like theirs, aren't really up for grabs at all. They are guaranteed to play regardless of performance, so it's kind of an disingenuous idea.

7 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Horvat, Baertschi, and Boeser proved they were a better line than the line of the twins. Now the twins are pushing back to compete for minutes again. Without the twins, we'll sorely lack a second line unless Pettersson is ready.

Or unless Benning is able to sign a couple of talented forwards with the cap space freed up by not re-signing them. Forwards who are a decade or so younger, faster, and/or stronger. The Sedins true asset is their otherworldly hockey IQ.

7 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Even if Pettersson is ready, it'd be pretty neat for the Sedins to mentor him as well as they have mentored Horvat, Boeser, and frankly, the rest of the team.

There comes a time though, where you cut bait, and let guys like Petterson learn from Bo, Brandon, and the like. Although based on how he's doing, how much does he really need. Much like Boeser, Petterson might be able to slot right in eventually. The only real knock on him is that he's built like a beanpole, but should fill out with age.

7 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Obviously, if this is just a short positive stint and the end off the same or worse than last year, I'd prefer they just call it quits, but if they still have it in them to be 50-60 point players, that's still solid top-6 performance levels and at $4M, would be a bargain. However, I see no reason to force them out of hockey if they still have some game left in them; they should be the only ones forcing themselves out of the game if they can no longer play at a serviceable level.

I don't think any team should allow players to decide when they're done. That sets a dangerous precedent. I'm of the mind to say that Bieksa would have been invaluable as a defensive veteran presence, but he was unceremoniously traded. He put in the same blood, sweat, and tears into the blue and green, yet somehow the Sedins should be given carte blanche? I just don't think that makes sense.

 

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5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The mention of internal competition is kind of a misnomer as some spots, like theirs, aren't really up for grabs at all. They are guaranteed to play regardless of performance, so it's kind of an disingenuous idea.

 

I don't think any team should allow players to decide when they're done. That sets a dangerous precedent. I'm of the mind to say that Bieksa would have been invaluable as a defensive veteran presence, but he was unceremoniously traded. He put in the same blood, sweat, and tears into the blue and green, yet somehow the Sedins should be given carte blanche? I just don't think that makes sense.

 

On the first part, I'd tend to disagree somewhat. Look at other legends like Linden, who became healthy scratches as the seasons went on, despite being a legend and an alternate captain. Still, I doubt the twins would be scratched, but even so, we've already seen the effect of internal competition in the fact that the twins are the second line. Heck, there were nights they were played more like third liners given their minutes. Green has shown that he's willing to play the best players, even if that means cutting minutes back from our twin legends. I suspect that if the twins fell to the point where they couldn't be any better than 4th line players, they'd either retire or just start being scratched, as their play style does not work in an energy role, but if they can remain 2nd line players, I see no reason to boot them out.

 

On the second point, I do agree with the first half. Bieksa put in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, but you seem to sell the twins short by implying that they haven't. Ask any Canuck and they'll tell you that the twins are the most competitive players on the team. They may not be fighting or crushing opponents like Bieksa, but they compete in other ways. 

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1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

They aren't worth $4-5M either. Frankly $1-2M is the max they should be given by the team to continue to play in a dwindling role. There is absolutely no sound reason to pay the Sedins $4-5M a season, when the team needs to complete the transition to a younger, stronger, faster and more competitive team. Let's not forget that they're going to be 38 in 2018. This team has benefited greatly from their veteran presence in the last few years as newer, younger players have taken greater roles with the team. Frankly, Linden and Benning shouldn't re-sign them in the offseason. The Sedins should really consider retirement.

 

Now some of those younger players are more than capable of taking the reins from them. They have shown glimpses of past glory this season, but the fact is that they are still in the twilight of their careers.

 

The team needs to make room for other players in the roster. Having $14M coming off the books would be huge for signing some younger free agents who could really fill a role going forward that can't be filled by a prospect in either Utica or other leagues.

 

I respect what the Sedins have brought to the team, but I also respect what Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, Schneider, and others who have been traded from the team have brought. In my mind, they are no different. Bringing them back for another season wouldn't be a very good idea and would deny younger, more capable players the opportunity to win a roster spot.

Are you being ridiculous again? Yes, you are. Forget everything except for the points for a second. Name me another notable NHL vet who scored 40-50 points and singed a $1 M contract. Yeah, that's going to be a short list. 

 

They are struggling with defensive responsibilities as much now as they likely did when they entered the league, but they never been Bergeron. Their best defense has been "we score more goals on you than you score on us when we're on the ice". Between the 2 of them last night they either scored or assisted on 3 of our goals, but were on the ice for 2 against. Daniel phoned it in with his "hit" and Henrik phoned it in with his non-backcheck on the exact same play. They need to be better, but people need to temper their expectations of how much better they can get at this stage. 

 

We had many young guys get a look at camp this past season and the ones who deserved to make the team made it. The ones who did not make the team were not capable, and it certainly wasn't a case of them taking 2 roster spots from anyone who deserved to be here more. It wasn't for lack of opportunity either, and that same opportunity is still here right now with all the injuries we're dealing with and tell me... who has really stepped up? Goldobin? Burmistrov? Gagner? Right there are 3 guys at very different stages of their careers who have been afforded an opportunity to stay on the roster, but the only reason they are on the ice is because at the moment we don't have anyone to replace them with. Maybe we'll see Pettersson and Gaudette next year, maybe not. Should the Twins come back we can fit all 4 guys in quite easily if nothing else changes. 

 

Yes, they pooped the bed in their own zone last night, and it wasn't for the first time this season, but the whole team was garbage defensively. If the Twins retire, fine. If they re-sign, fine. If they request a $1-2 M contract to keep the cap down, fine. If we sign more free agents next offseason like we did this past one and it creates more competition at camp, great! But the idea that JB should or would outright offer them that contract is laughable. Despite their defensive shortcomings they're still 2 and 3 in scoring right now. Injuries have happened and they've been the ones to step their offense up. 

 

The bottom line is that a lot of things can happen between now and Game 1 of the 2018 regular season, but 1 of them isn't likely to be that piddly contract offer. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

A question of term and even the amount of money. 1 year deal with no trade restrictions based on a hard look at the prospects and which vets will be carried over. 

Not happening. I'd be absolutely shocked if they were offered anything over a 1 year deal, but if they re-sign they won't ever be moved. Nor should they be if they don't want to play anywhere else.

 

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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

On the first part, I'd tend to disagree somewhat. Look at other legends like Linden, who became healthy scratches as the seasons went on, despite being a legend and an alternate captain. Still, I doubt the twins would be scratched, but even so, we've already seen the effect of internal competition in the fact that the twins are the second line.

The Sedins can't be scratched because the team hasn't enough talent to displace them....yet. 

Quote

Heck, there were nights they were played more like third liners given their minutes. Green has shown that he's willing to play the best players, even if that means cutting minutes back from our twin legends. 

Green has been remarkably fair with the minutes and has had the unenviable job of having to deal with a bad rash of injuries in his first year as head coach

Quote

Isuspect that if the twins fell to the point where they couldn't be any better than 4th line players, they'd either retire or just start being scratched, as their play style does not work in an energy role, but if they can remain 2nd line players, I see no reason to boot them out.

If Benning is able to promote from within or trade/sign for younger players to be out in those roles, I hope he does it. This team needs to get younger. 

Quote

On the second point, I do agree with the first half. Bieksa put in a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, but you seem to sell the twins short by implying that they haven't. Ask any Canuck and they'll tell you that the twins are the most competitive players on the team. They may not be fighting or crushing opponents like Bieksa, but they compete in other ways. 

Not at all. I hold the Sedins and Bieksa in the same light. Members of that same awesome core. They should be held to the same reverence. How you could figure that I implied that the Sedins haven't spilt blood is beyond me.  

 

We all remember this picture.

 

dansedinbleeding.jpg

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16 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The Sedins can't be scratched because the team hasn't enough talent to displace them....yet. 

Green has been remarkably fair with the minutes and has had the unenviable job of having to deal with a bad rash of injuries in his first year as head coach

If Benning is able to promote from within or trade/sign for younger players to be out in those roles, I hope he does it. This team needs to get younger. 

Not at all. I hold the Sedins and Bieksa in the same light. Members of that same awesome core. They should be held to the same reverence. How you could figure that I implied that the Sedins haven't spilt blood is beyond me.  

 

We all remember this picture.

 

dansedinbleeding.jpg

I can mostly agree with everything you say here. I do hope we have young talent good enough to supplant the twins coming up.

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2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I can mostly agree with everything you say here. I do hope we have young talent good enough to supplant the twins coming up.

I don't want to ditch the Sedins because they suck, because I don't believe they do. I just don't want this team to feel indebted to them at the behest of including young players. As well, I don't want to see their game degrade to the point that it tarnishes their legacy, and end it in possible injury that would affect their quality of life post-hockey. 

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4 hours ago, Green Building said:

Are you being ridiculous again? Yes, you are. Forget everything except for the points for a second. Name me another notable NHL vet who scored 40-50 points and singed a $1 M contract. Yeah, that's going to be a short list. 

Take it easy on me, Green. I'm sensitive. 

 

The Sedins, if they want to help the team transition, and want to be a part of it, would do the team a kindness, and sign a really friendly contract. Don't tell me that they need they money....

Quote

They are struggling with defensive responsibilities as much now as they likely did when they entered the league, but they never been Bergeron. Their best defense has been "we score more goals on you than you score on us when we're on the ice". Between the 2 of them last night they either scored or assisted on 3 of our goals, but were on the ice for 2 against. Daniel phoned it in with his "hit" and Henrik phoned it in with his non-backcheck on the exact same play. They need to be better, but people need to temper their expectations of how much better they can get at this stage.

And if this is it for them as far as production, when does the team move on, respectfully?

Quote

We had many young guys get a look at camp this past season and the ones who deserved to make the team made it. The ones who did not make the team were not capable, and it certainly wasn't a case of them taking 2 roster spots from anyone who deserved to be here more. 

It may be the case next year, and realistically there were other players that could have made it, were the Sedins not in the spots. However sitting two $7M players is not a good idea from a financial perspective, and they still do have game to give. 

Quote

Itwasn't for lack of opportunity either, and that same opportunity is still here right now with all the injuries we're dealing with and tell me... who has really stepped up? Goldobin? Burmistrov? Gagner? Right there are 3 guys at very different stages of their careers who have been afforded an opportunity to stay on the roster, but the only reason they are on the ice is because at the moment we don't have anyone to replace them with. Maybe we'll see Pettersson and Gaudette next year, maybe not. Should the Twins come back we can fit all 4 guys in quite easily if nothing else changes. 

I have nothing but respect and admiration for those two guys, but how long do they mentor for. 

Quote

 

Yes, they pooped the bed in their own zone last night, and it wasn't for the first time this season, but the whole team was garbage defensively. If the Twins retire, fine. If they re-sign, fine. If they request a $1-2 M contract to keep the cap down, fine. If we sign more free agents next offseason like we did this past one and it creates more competition at camp, great! But the idea that JB should or would outright offer them that contract is laughable. Despite their defensive shortcomings they're still 2 and 3 in scoring right now. Injuries have happened and they've been the ones to step their offense up. 

$5-6M is also laughable. 

Quote

The bottom line is that a lot of things can happen between now and Game 1 of the 2018 regular season, but 1 of them isn't likely to be that piddly contract offer. 

Don't knock it til you try it...I don't know what I'm trying to say there. 

Quote

Not happening. I'd be absolutely shocked if they were offered anything over a 1 year deal, but if they re-sign they won't ever be moved. Nor should they be if they don't want to play anywhere else.

That much is evident. 

Quote

 

Empty text box. Damn

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10 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Take it easy on me, Green. I'm sensitive. 

 

The Sedins, if they want to help the team transition, and want to be a part of it, would do the team a kindness, and sign a really friendly contract. Don't tell me that they need they money....

And if this is it for them as far as production, when does the team move on, respectfully?

It may be the case next year, and realistically there were other players that could have made it, were the Sedins not in the spots. However sitting two $7M players is not a good idea from a financial perspective, and they still do have game to give. 

I have nothing but respect and admiration for those two guys, but how long do they mentor for. 

$5-6M is also laughable. 

Don't knock it til you try it...I don't know what I'm trying to say there. 

That much is evident. 

Empty text box. Damn

I am inline with your suggestion of $1.5 to $2 mil. That said it comes down to the proposed roster next year. How many prospects are pushing for TOI versus the number of vets needed to provide a good framework. The problem with the Twins is that you have to take both which multiplys the impact. How some fans can say it isn't about the money and then say the amount above is an insult. Another says NTC's should be there as the Twins won't play anywhere else. If that is the case you don't need them, right? 

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On 20/12/2017 at 8:59 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

Take it easy on me, Green. I'm sensitive. 

 

The Sedins, if they want to help the team transition, and want to be a part of it, would do the team a kindness, and sign a really friendly contract. Don't tell me that they need they money....

And if this is it for them as far as production, when does the team move on, respectfully?

It may be the case next year, and realistically there were other players that could have made it, were the Sedins not in the spots. However sitting two $7M players is not a good idea from a financial perspective, and they still do have game to give. 

I have nothing but respect and admiration for those two guys, but how long do they mentor for. 

$5-6M is also laughable. 

Don't knock it til you try it...I don't know what I'm trying to say there. 

That much is evident. 

Empty text box. Damn

I never said 5-6 was what they're worth, I feel that it's somewhere between that number and the low ones people toss around here. 

 

If JB sits down with them in the summer and tells them they won't be re-signed I'd be perfectly fine with it, but until such time I'm prepared to go down fighting Bieksa-style on their behalf. They've been outstandingly professional and successful locally while being under appreciated by most outside of town, and now with Nucks fans slowly or currently turning on them I choose to make it known that it is as undeserved as the BS they took from other markets up till now.  

 

I apologize for nothing.

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I'd be shocked if they aren't resigned for 1yr. Probably 2.5m+ is my guess.

 

We'd be so &^@#ed without them right now and if things go the way they always do, we'll need them again next season. They're not done, they're just done pretending to back check

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34 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I'd be shocked if they aren't resigned for 1yr. Probably 2.5m+ is my guess.

 

We'd be so &^@#ed without them right now and if things go the way they always do, we'll need them again next season. They're not done, they're just done pretending to back check

Agreed. After the start of the year, I didn't think we'd notice them, but they are basically keeping the team somewhat respectable now and possibly even saving Boeser's Calder trophy-calibre season. If they can maintain a 50-point pace, I wouldn't mind them being signed for anything $4M or less for another season. A NTC or NMC is irrelevant since we know they aren't going anywhere. Performance bonuses might be an interesting idea though, since they'd be eligible in the case of a 1-year deal.

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Just now, -AJ- said:

Agreed. After the start of the year, I didn't think we'd notice them, but they are basically keeping the team somewhat respectable now and possibly even saving Boeser's Calder trophy-calibre season. If they can maintain a 50-point pace, I wouldn't mind them being signed for anything $4M or less for another season. A NTC or NMC is irrelevant since we know they aren't going anywhere. Performance bonuses might be an interesting idea though, since they'd be eligible in the case of a 1-year deal.

$4M!!!  What? Guess they could use Gagner as leverage.

 

I'm having a hard time with that. But then again, I don't know $&!#. I'm continually surprised in life, generally speaking.

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3 minutes ago, luckylager said:

$4M!!!  What? Guess they could use Gagner as leverage.

 

I'm having a hard time with that. But then again, I don't know $&!#. I'm continually surprised in life, generally speaking.

Just based off their production. 50-points is a solid 2nd-line level production. Bo produces just a little better and he got a steal of a deal at $5.5M. $4M is a significant amount lower for just a few less points.

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11 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Just based off their production. 50-points is a solid 2nd-line level production. Bo produces just a little better and he got a steal of a deal at $5.5M. $4M is a significant amount lower for just a few less points.

Damn. At least Bo back checks. 

 

Guess you're right and I can just prepare myself for it now. But at 8m for the pair, I can't help but think we could really use that money better... by throwing it at a younger UFA or two that can grow with the team.

 

Ideally they take 3m max. Leaves 7-8m for Kane a few mil change for depth.

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15 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Damn. At least Bo back checks. 

 

Guess you're right and I can just prepare myself for it now. But at 8m for the pair, I can't help but think we could really use that money better... by throwing it at a younger UFA or two that can grow with the team.

 

Ideally they take 3m max. Leaves 7-8m for Kane a few mil change for depth.

Yeah, Bo has far better defense as well, but I'd say he's worth more like $6M at this point and is a bargain, so the difference is more like $2M.  I'd be pretty happy if the twins would be down for $3M too.

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