Brandon Sutter | #20 | C

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think you're misreading the stat. Rather than placing many restrictions on a single stat, I think it's emphasizing all of the things that Sutter does defensively. Think of it as a list. He:

1) Plays more than 17 minutes a game

2) Plays more than 2 PK mins a game

3) He has more than a 75% defensive zone start percentage

 

Not necessarily saying anything about how good he is, it's just saying that he plays a fair bit of minutes and is heavily used for defense. How you interpret things beyond that is up to you.

When he states, "Brandon Sutter is the only centre" I think it's fair to assume he's trying to put him in the top of a category.  It comes down to the AND/OR argument.  Plays more than 17 minutes AND players more than 2 PK minutes a game AND has more than a 75% dzone start.   As soon are you have AND's it creates a bunch of variables that need to be met.  when you have 3 conditions that HAVE to be met, it's far less impressive.   

 

 

 

[Alflives]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

When he states, "Brandon Sutter is the only centre" I think it's fair to assume he's trying to put him in the top of a category.  It comes down to the AND/OR argument.  Plays more than 17 minutes AND players more than 2 PK minutes a game AND has more than a 75% dzone start.   As soon are you have AND's it creates a bunch of variables that need to be met.  when you have 3 conditions that HAVE to be met, it's far less impressive.   

 

 

 

Isn’t Sutter the league leader in plus/minus on Wednesday games, that start at 7:09 Pacific time, when the barametric pressure is higher than 100 millibars?  I think he is, and that’s saying something.  

[TFerguson]

In this article:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ben-kuzma-sutter-seethes-at-insane-tank-talk-to-upgrade-canucks-draft-pick/amp

 

Brandon Sutter says this:

 

“What Travis wanted and what my strengths are, we were pretty much on point,” added the 29-year-old Sutter. “I’ve reached the point where I don’t care where I play or what my role is. Last year, I was kind of in limbo and not really sure what my role was. I wasn’t really matched up — I was just playing.”

 

Shot at Willy D. No?

Edited March 29, 2018 by AllWeatherFan

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, AllWeatherFan said:

In this article:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ben-kuzma-sutter-seethes-at-insane-tank-talk-to-upgrade-canucks-draft-pick/amp

 

Brandon Sittler says this:

 

“What Travis wanted and what my strengths are, we were pretty much on point,” added the 29-year-old Sutter. “I’ve reached the point where I don’t care where I play or what my role is. Last year, I was kind of in limbo and not really sure what my role was. I wasn’t really matched up — I was just playing.”

 

Shot at Willy D. No?

Ya, Willy D played Sutter all over, including on the wing with the Twins, didn’t he?  Sutter is a 2 or a 4 centre.  He seems like the challenge of shutting down the other teams’ top lines.  It was really nice to see him stick it to Kesler last night.  

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, AllWeatherFan said:

In this article:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ben-kuzma-sutter-seethes-at-insane-tank-talk-to-upgrade-canucks-draft-pick/amp

 

Brandon Sutter says this:

 

“What Travis wanted and what my strengths are, we were pretty much on point,” added the 29-year-old Sutter. “I’ve reached the point where I don’t care where I play or what my role is. Last year, I was kind of in limbo and not really sure what my role was. I wasn’t really matched up — I was just playing.”

 

Shot at Willy D. No?

Quote

It’s encouraging the Canucks have won three of their last four games — Sutter scored twice Tuesday in a 4-1 decision over the Anaheim Ducks — but not to the “draftists.” They see losing as winning even though improved draft odds guarantee nothing.

 

“That doesn’t sit well with the pro athlete at all,” Sutter said Wednesday. “To us, that’s just insane. If you’re a fan, you want to see your team win. We were talking about having a chance to still catch Chicago. And I’m sure some wouldn’t be too happy about that.

 

“If you start playing games that way (to lose), you’ll never get that (winning mentality) back. We’re trying to improve. Sitting around and losing games isn’t going to make anybody better. True fans just enjoy watching us play and cheering us on.

 

“There’s always going to be outside pressure, but if you pay attention to it, it could really hurt you. You’ve just got to ignore it.”

Sutter's just saying what every Canuck player and any real athlete believes, pro or not.

[rizzuto&hatoum]

I like Sutter's game. Being a +5 on a matchup line says a lot about his play. Just read about his 'true fan' comment. It's a nothingburger.

[Wilbur]

Brandon Sutter is still steadily moving up the all-time Canuck scoring list.  Into 112th now.

 

111.  Pavol Demitra	C	97	23	46	69
112.  Brandon Sutter	C	159	33	35	68
113.  Bob Manno	D	163	13	55	68
114.  Gregg Boddy	D	273	23	44	67

[khay]

On 14/05/2017 at 4:27 PM, terrible.dee said:

And we always lose, that tells you right there which parts need switching

I used to disagree with this kind of sentiment but I'm starting to think that Sutter is a good stop gap but not going to be part of a winning team moving forward. Definitely not a core piece JB was alluding to.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, khay said:

I used to disagree with this kind of sentiment but I'm starting to think that Sutter is a good stop gap but not going to be part of a winning team moving forward. Definitely not a core piece JB was alluding to.

He never said core FWIW. 

 

[Wanless]

Sutters play this year has been nothing short of top notch. Matching up against the oppositions best while putting up close to 0.5 points per game. He has also in the last 2 months become a legit offensive threat. Amazing what an identity will do.

 

I know he’s 29, but his play style looks as though he will last. Even though we’ve seen him injured quite a bit before he played here he missed just 3 games for the penguins. Could still play a big role for the team another 4 years.

 

I also get the feeling that he will be a great mentor for Gaudette in learning how to be a match up guy

[Rob_Zepp]

Guy has 25 points in 59 games in a shutdown and PK role.   He plays north of 17 hard minutes a night against often the other team's top line.  On a team that is minus a zillion and most top players in high double digits he is plus 7.    His year to date offensive zone starts - 22.8%.   Less than a 1/4 of the time he starts in the offensive zone.

 

People don't like this guy exactly why?   For what he does, his money is more than just fine.   He is a great player for the Gaudette's of the world to learn from.   

 

Again, Todd Bertuzzi said it best when he said people who know the game know how valuable this guy is and the deal Vancouver has with him is a very good one.      

[-AJ-]

Thanks to his two-point game last night, his point production has now reached exactly last year's projected rate, even while playing such a defensive role. This guy has practically become the next Malhotra at this point. Stellar faceoff percentages (not quite Manny-level) and outstanding defensive play. I was so confident in him during our 3 on 5 last night even though they were scored on. He's such a reliable defensive guy, I can see why Green likes him.

[khay]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

He never said core FWIW. 

 

sorry, "foundational" right?

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, khay said:

sorry, "foundational" right?

Which is accurate IMO (and was QUITE overblown by some media/fans).

 

He does all the hard, 'foundational' hockey stuff that helps shelter kids and more skilled players. Kills penalties, massive dzone starts, hard match ups etc.

 

That doesn't mean he's a 'core' piece or anything moving forward. He'll likely be a solid, veteran 4C when his contract is expiring and will be 32 years old by the time we're (hopefully) a contender again.

[khay]

3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Guy has 25 points in 59 games in a shutdown and PK role.   He plays north of 17 hard minutes a night against often the other team's top line.  On a team that is minus a zillion and most top players in high double digits he is plus 7.    His year to date offensive zone starts - 22.8%.   Less than a 1/4 of the time he starts in the offensive zone.

 

People don't like this guy exactly why?   For what he does, his money is more than just fine.   He is a great player for the Gaudette's of the world to learn from.   

 

Again, Todd Bertuzzi said it best when he said people who know the game know how valuable this guy is and the deal Vancouver has with him is a very good one.      

Yes, I agree that he is one of the best in his role. 

 

Although, what I am starting to realize is, that even if you increase his offensive zone starts to 50%, I don't think his production will go up very much. The great thing about Sutter is that whether he gets 0% offensive zone starts or 22.8%, he will put up about 0.4-0.45 points per game and decrease goals against of the opposition's top players goal scoring rate. As you said, he is basically our new Manny Malholtra and his salary is well justified because he does a lot of the hard work. 

 

On a team that lacks talent, like ours, he prevents us from being as bad as Colorado Avalanche of last year. I think that's a good thing for the young guys' confidence. He gives the team a chance to come away with points with his stellar defensive efforts even in games where we look totally out matched.

 

But after having seen him play here the last three years, I can't stop thinking about his years with Pittsburgh and how they took off when he was replaced by Bonino. The other teams could neutralize or shut down 87 and 71 in various ways, but then their third line did the damage. Of course, they also added Kessel so my point can easily be weakened... but I think if you put Sutter there instead of Bonino, that third line isn't as destructive as the one centered by Bonino. 

 

I think winning in the playoffs and even in the regular season takes place when use your ice time efficiently in terms of generating offence. If your top two lines cancel the other team's top two lines, and you have a third line that out scores the other team's third line, then you will win a lot of games in the playoffs. I don't think Sutter can do that for us. So I see him being a good stop gap player, and as @aGENT said above, eventually he will be a 4C by the time we are contenders again and we have lines centered by Pettersson-Horvat-Gaudette along with offensively talented wingers like Boeser, Dahlen, Goldobin, Lind, and whoever we draft/sign in the next two seasons. Actually, even Virtanen. What he has shown as of late, makes me feel optimistic that his offensive game will come along nicely in a year or two.

 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, khay said:

But after having seen him play here the last three years, I can't stop thinking about his years with Pittsburgh and how they took off when he was replaced by Bonino. The other teams could neutralize or shut down 87 and 71 in various ways, but then their third line did the damage. Of course, they also added Kessel so my point can easily be weakened... but I think if you put Sutter there instead of Bonino, that third line isn't as destructive as the one centered by Bonino. 

Our 'problem' in this comparison isn't that we have Sutter, our 'problem' is that we don't have Crosby and Malkin. That and we're mid rebuild, not contending.

 

Different teams are built with different players who have different strengths. And like you reiterated, Sutter is likely to be an expiring 4C by the time we start contending again.

 

Sutter being here has very, very little to do  with making this team a contender right now. It hopefully has a great deal to do with helping us shelter and develop kids to make us a contender in a few years.

[Wilbur]

The season closes Brandon Sutter closes out the season moving into 111th in all-time Canuck scroring (damn it, I wanted Horvat to get a point to pass Messier)

 

110.  Jim Benning	D	241	15	55	70
111.  Brandon Sutter	C	161	33	36	69
112.  Pavol Demitra	C	97	23	46	69

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

It makes me lil uneasy thinking the team will be relying heavily on Sutter for offense.

But i'm curious as to see what Sutter might do with some actual offensive players who are creative.  Sutter has the ability to shoot and finish, just he can't be the one that stirs the pot offensively.  

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

It makes me lil uneasy thinking the team will be relying heavily on Sutter for offense.

But i'm curious as to see what Sutter might do with some actual offensive players who are creative.  Sutter has the ability to shoot and finish, just he can't be the one that stirs the pot offensively.  

I don't see how it'll be possible to put him in an offensive role when we have two other centers (Horvat and Gaudette) that should be more sheltered, leaving Sutter and Beagle to be the defensive zone start and match-up guys.

 

I don't know if putting him with offensive wingers will help his game too much, he just doesn't have the offensive IQ and natural ability. He's a very straight-line/north-south player: skate up and down the ice fast and try to make a play on the rush.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by kanucks25

[higgyfan]

3 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

It makes me lil uneasy thinking the team will be relying heavily on Sutter for offense.

But i'm curious as to see what Sutter might do with some actual offensive players who are creative.  Sutter has the ability to shoot and finish, just he can't be the one that stirs the pot offensively.  

If Sutter scores his 18-20 goals that will be more than enough.  Team doesn't need anymore offence from him.  The top 6 will have plenty of opportunities to build on team offence.  The next two seasons will be a huge development curve for Nuck offence.