filthycanuck Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, -AJ- said: So I'll take that as a no then. Wheres this stat that Sutter makes the team better? Last I checked we haven't been to the playoffs since he's been a Canuck the last 4 years. Enlighten us if you think you're so damn smart If you want stats, Gauds played double the games and he's a -8. Sutter was a -12. Even statistically he's already outpaced Sutter. I don't give a rats ass if you're a moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post -AJ- Posted July 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:32 AM, filthycanuck said: Wheres this stat that Sutter makes the team better? Last I checked we haven't been to the playoffs since he's been a Canuck the last 4 years. Enlighten us if you think you're so damn smart If you want stats, Gauds played double the games and he's a -8. Sutter was a -12. Even statistically he's already outpaced Sutter. I don't give a rats ass if you're a moderator. Being a moderator has nothing to do with this point--I'm simply making a case based on hockey statistics. Any user could do the same if they wanted. Points-per-game: Sutter: 0.23 Gaudette: 0.21 Gaudette also had a Corsi below 50% while having a very high offensive zone start percentage (59.4%). This is noticeably worse than almost every player with offensive usages that high. Sutter had a poor Corsi, but his zone start was very very low at 31.0%, meaning he was used heavily in a defensive role, in contrast to Gaudette, who was given far more offensive opportunities that Sutter. I will grant you the +/- point, but it's weight is no greater than any other defensive stat. Hits-per-game: Sutter: 1.3 Gaudette: 0.9 This is particularly damning for Gaudette, as hits are known to be inversely correlated to possession, yet despite better overall possession numbers, Sutter actually has a higher hits-per-game than Gaudette. Blocked Shots-per-game: Sutter: 0.5 Gaudette: 0.3 Speaks for itself. Sutter plays a better defensive game than Gaudette. Faceoff Percentage: Sutter: 48.5% Gaudette: 40.4% As is common with young players, they're no good at face-offs--Gaudette is no different. PK Time per game: Gaudette: <0.01 minutes (5 seconds over the season) Sutter: 3.13 minutes per game Again, cementing the fact that Sutter has far fewer offensive opportunities and is used heavily for defense. Honestly, I struggle to find a single statistic aside from ones taken out of context that support the hypothesis that Gaudette is better than Sutter. Keep in mind, this was a bad year for Sutter, I'm not contesting that. Imagine how much more better he is in an average year? I would love Gaudette to become better than Sutter, but right now, Sutter heavily outperforms him defensively and is at worst equal to him offensively. 3 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Being a moderator has nothing to do with this point--I'm simply making a case based on hockey statistics. Any user could do the same if they wanted. Points-per-game: Sutter: 0.23 Gaudette: 0.21 Gaudette also had a Corsi below 50% while having a very high offensive zone start percentage (59.4%). This is noticeably worse than almost every player with offensive usages that high. Sutter had a poor Corsi, but his zone start was very very low at 31.0%, meaning he was used heavily in a defensive role, in contrast to Gaudette, who was given far more offensive opportunities that Sutter. I will grant you the +/- point, but it's weight is no greater than any other defensive stat. Hits-per-game: Sutter: 1.3 Gaudette: 0.9 This is particularly damning for Gaudette, as hits are known to be inversely correlated to possession, yet despite better overall possession numbers, Sutter actually hits-per-game than Gaudette. Blocked Shots-per-game: Sutter: 0.5 Gaudette: 0.3 Speaks for itself. Sutter plays a better defensive game than Gaudette. Faceoff Percentage: Sutter: 48.5% Gaudette: 40.4% As is common with young players, they're no good at face-offs--Gaudette is no different. PK Time per game: Gaudette: <0.01 minutes (5 seconds over the season) Sutter: 3.13 minutes per game Again, cementing the fact that Sutter has far fewer offensive opportunities and is used heavily for defense. Honestly, I struggle to find a single statistic aside from ones taken out of context that support the hypothesis that Gaudette is better than Sutter. Keep in mind, this was a bad year for Sutter, I'm not contesting that. Imagine how much more better he is in an average year? I would love Gaudette to become better than Sutter, but right now, Sutter heavily outperforms him defensively and is at worst equal to him offensively. Might be good to give Gaudette some top line Utica minutes. We will see how well he is at camp though. He might surprise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 hours ago, filthycanuck said: Wheres this stat that Sutter makes the team better? Last I checked we haven't been to the playoffs since he's been a Canuck the last 4 years. Enlighten us if you think you're so damn smart If you want stats, Gauds played double the games and he's a -8. Sutter was a -12. Even statistically he's already outpaced Sutter. I don't give a rats ass if you're a moderator. Gaud can't play the heavy defensive minutes just yet. If he's playing 3C, Bo's line has to pick up more d-zone mins, which takes away from their o-zone starts. With the added UFA players, I pretty sure most people want to see the top two lines (1a and 1b) getting top offensive mins. Goals, goals, goals. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 hours ago, -AJ- said: So I'll take that as a no then. I thought the same thing watching him last year but apparently he was battling injuries all year. Let's see what training camp and pre-season show. https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ben-kuzma-sutters-sorry-season-over-centre-to-have-hernia-surgery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I think Sutter returns as the #3C, and that's not so bad. He is good defensively and with faceoffs, and can provide a bit of offence occasionally. Is he overpaid? Yes. But can he still play? Yes. Gaudette and Schaller will probably start the season in Utica. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 8 hours ago, filthycanuck said: The problem is no teams won't. Im pretty sure Jim has tried getting something for Sutter just to unload his salary, even a 5th or 6th and still no takers. Sutter with his injury history, his salary, and his lack of production is nothing but an albatross to this team You are pretty sure about that are you? You are pretty sure about a lot of things that you couldn't possibly know. Most of which are outright fabrications and completely ridiculous, just like that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 8 hours ago, -AJ- said: Being a moderator has nothing to do with this point--I'm simply making a case based on hockey statistics. Any user could do the same if they wanted. Points-per-game: Sutter: 0.23 Gaudette: 0.21 Gaudette also had a Corsi below 50% while having a very high offensive zone start percentage (59.4%). This is noticeably worse than almost every player with offensive usages that high. Sutter had a poor Corsi, but his zone start was very very low at 31.0%, meaning he was used heavily in a defensive role, in contrast to Gaudette, who was given far more offensive opportunities that Sutter. I will grant you the +/- point, but it's weight is no greater than any other defensive stat. Hits-per-game: Sutter: 1.3 Gaudette: 0.9 This is particularly damning for Gaudette, as hits are known to be inversely correlated to possession, yet despite better overall possession numbers, Sutter actually hits-per-game than Gaudette. Blocked Shots-per-game: Sutter: 0.5 Gaudette: 0.3 Speaks for itself. Sutter plays a better defensive game than Gaudette. Faceoff Percentage: Sutter: 48.5% Gaudette: 40.4% As is common with young players, they're no good at face-offs--Gaudette is no different. PK Time per game: Gaudette: <0.01 minutes (5 seconds over the season) Sutter: 3.13 minutes per game Again, cementing the fact that Sutter has far fewer offensive opportunities and is used heavily for defense. Honestly, I struggle to find a single statistic aside from ones taken out of context that support the hypothesis that Gaudette is better than Sutter. Keep in mind, this was a bad year for Sutter, I'm not contesting that. Imagine how much more better he is in an average year? I would love Gaudette to become better than Sutter, but right now, Sutter heavily outperforms him defensively and is at worst equal to him offensively. Not really here to argue back and forth how are these guys comparable sure they would both be 3rd on our centre depth chart but sutter gets17-19 minutes a night when healthy Guad gets sub 13.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Umbrus Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said: I think Sutter returns as the #3C, and that's not so bad. He is good defensively and with faceoffs, and can provide a bit of offence occasionally. Is he overpaid? Yes. But can he still play? Yes. Gaudette and Schaller will probably start the season in Utica. Honestly with how the cap and salaries have went up and keep slowly climibing up year after year. His contract isn't too bad really. If he returns to his 35-40 point form and has a full healthy season. 4ish mil for a guy like that is the going rate these days anyways. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 What would be Sutter's value at the TD if he stays healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dats hockey Posted July 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, dpn1 said: What would be Sutter's value at the TD if he stays healthy? Probably a valuable 3rd line centre for the Canucks Stanley cup run 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-P Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Sutter while injured a lot did have 17.28 TOI average. Gaudette had 10.57. I think that's all you need to know, really. AG is not ready to be a 3rd line center yet and Sutter's cap hit isn't that bad for what he provides if he can actually stay healthy. Also, ice time around 10 mins is ok for MacEwen playing 4 games, it's not ok for someone being on the roster for a longer period unless you're a career 4th liner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Why haven't the Canucks tried him at 4th line centre like Bo did? I think he is scrappy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 48 minutes ago, dpn1 said: Why haven't the Canucks tried him at 4th line centre like Bo did? I think he is scrappy enough. That's Beagle's job. Well, maybe if Willie were still here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 11 hours ago, higgyfan said: Gaud can't play the heavy defensive minutes just yet. If he's playing 3C, Bo's line has to pick up more d-zone mins, which takes away from their o-zone starts. With the added UFA players, I pretty sure most people want to see the top two lines (1a and 1b) getting top offensive mins. Goals, goals, goals. As much I agree with giving Bo o zone starts.....Bo played his best going up against the other teams top lines. In that way he reminds of Kesler.. I would like to see green try Miller bo and Jake cause that line can shut other's down and score.. Guad could play third line and replace Sutter since Sutter isn't a play maker which I think hurts the wingers we have. ( FYI just my opinion and I don't have stats to back up....just my two cents) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I don't mind keeping Sutter. He's a veteran presence the young players can rely upon so with his intangibles, he can bring things on the table that Gaudette can not. Guadette will get his NHL time but I see no problems making him earn his stripes as a call up. Plus I know Sutter will get injured at somepoint in the season just like I know the sun will come up the next morning so Guadette will get his chances with the big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Which Sutter are we going to see this season? Are we going to see the defensive, hard playing guy who can chip in 30 points or are has he completely lost his mojo and will see see the Sutter we saw after he came back from injury? If the former, I feel he has an important role on this team, and allows us to groom Gaudette properly. If not, we need to find a way to move him and his contract - which would he exceptionally hard once other GMs see he is no longer a good contributor. We will see. A lot of people have written him off, but fully healthy and time to rest in the offseason might just provide us with the Sutter of old. Fingers crossed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) Dbl post Edited July 17, 2019 by kloubek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Baggins Posted July 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 10:40 AM, Dats hockey said: Not really here to argue back and forth how are these guys comparable sure they would both be 3rd on our centre depth chart but sutter gets17-19 minutes a night when healthy Guad gets sub 13.... You don't think there's a reason for that? Sutter only played 26 games last season. If Gaud was ready to replace him his ice time would have been considerably higher with Sutter out most of the season. Also Sutter kills penalties while Gaud spent a whopping 5 seconds on the PK for the entire season despite Sutter being out. Obviously Green disarees with your assessment Gaud is ready to replace Sutts. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Baggins said: You don't think there's a reason for that? Sutter only played 26 games last season. If Gaud was ready to replace him his ice time would have been considerably higher with Sutter out most of the season. Also Sutter kills penalties while Gaud spent a whopping 5 seconds on the PK for the entire season despite Sutter being out. Obviously Green disarees with your assessment Gaud is ready to replace Sutts. Yeah, I think Gaud has a ways to go before he can claim the 3C; shutdown or offensive line. He's always been an offensive player, but is not really a playmaker and his defensive game is not very good. The team's prospect pool doesn't really have future alternatives for the 3C role, so they will be patient with Gaud's development. Eventually they may move to equipping a more offensive 3rd line, but he will still have to improve his defensive game and probably require a playmaking winger. He's waiver exempt, so a expect he will go to Utica for some time. Probably be good for his development. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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