Brandon Sutter | #20 | C

[Boudrias]

At what point does keeping Sutter and Roussel become a negative to future development of their younger replacements? Both these players have played a major role in mentoring but keeping them longer takes TOI away from younger alternatives. The playoffs this year exposed the younger core and potential roster players to CUP play. Time now to accelerate development by giving them more TOI, larger roles.  

[Provost]

49 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

At what point does keeping Sutter and Roussel become a negative to future development of their younger replacements? Both these players have played a major role in mentoring but keeping them longer takes TOI away from younger alternatives. The playoffs this year exposed the younger core and potential roster players to CUP play. Time now to accelerate development by giving them more TOI, larger roles.  

Well we don’t really have anyone on the farm pushing for a spot.

 

MacEwan is the guy that should transition to a full time gig, and without Ferland really in the mix there is a spot for him.  Lind should be in a year of getting injury call ups next year to see how well he plays.  Hoglander can’t be counted on for next season, though I would love him to come into camp and push Pearson down to the 3rd line.

 

It is all about cap space as a reason to get rid of Sutter and Roussel.  We can get cheaper veterans if we need to bring someone back or just sign Leivo which it sounds like we will be doing.

 

[Toyotasfan]

Time to move on if there’s any takers out there.

[Kootenay Gold]

On 9/11/2020 at 8:47 AM, Provost said:

t is all about cap space as a reason to get rid of Sutter and Roussel.  We can get cheaper veterans if we need to bring someone back or just sign Leivo which it sounds like we will be doing.

If I were a betting man, I think Roussel will be the one traded and Leivo will fill that position at a lesser cost. Also; Virtanin might stick around but with a flat cap and the relative value he might bring in a trade; he could be gone as well. I just don't see him as a top 6 and there are cheaper options to fill the bottom six IMO

[-AJ-]

I'm a big fan of the Sutters and Beagles, but I do think we're beginning to approach a time where they're less needed--not yet, but soon. Our young players got a huge amount of experience this spring and I think one more run to at least the second round and our need for older experienced leaders is greatly diminished. By then the core will be experienced enough on their own I think.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

13 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'm a big fan of the Sutters and Beagles, but I do think we're beginning to approach a time where they're less needed--not yet, but soon. Our young players got a huge amount of experience this spring and I think one more run to at least the second round and our need for older experienced leaders is greatly diminished. By then the core will be experienced enough on their own I think.

I think there is always room to have players like Sutter or Beagle, but you can't have both of them especially in crucial pieces in the bottom six.  You can have one but you likely dedicate that line to being defensive, energy based, and not much offensive production, and need more offense generated in the other line.

 

You always need experience, but in the right areas.  Our lack of bottom six offensive production caught up to us, Having basically 3 full lines dedicated to defense/containment  isn't a recipe for success.  Ultimately, Sutter and Beagle had a solid playoff performance from a defensive standpoint, but need more offense and can't have the third and fourth line purely defensive.

 

Roussel-Sutter-Gaudette

Motte-Beagle-Virtanen           That bottom six was bound to fall into an offensive blackhole, too many redundant pieces who don't have much poise with the puck.

 

Personally I'd prefer Sutter over Beagle as I think he has more capabilities to play 5v5 better and has more offensive talent, but Beagle has better skating overall and more solid in the faceoff department.

[J-P]

I think Beagle continuing the fitness culture and mentality from the Sedins is more important than you might think.

 

Sutter had his moments during these playoffs but I just don't see his salary or the type of player he is nowadays as a good fit for 3C on a winning team. So I hope he's moved but might be easier said than done.

 

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, J-P said:

I think Beagle continuing the fitness culture and mentality from the Sedins is more important than you might think.

 

Sutter had his moments during these playoffs but I just don't see his salary or the type of player he is nowadays as a good fit for 3C on a winning team. So I hope he's moved but might be easier said than done.

 

Sutter at 50% retained is a solid player that should be moveable. If we try to clear his whole salary though... things certainly get harder.

Edited September 13, 2020 by aGENT

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

I'm just thinking outside the box here. So hear me out, but what if Travis Green chose to use Brandon Sutter with Tanner Pearson and Bo Horvat?

 

Reasons why:

 

1) Seems like the Canucks would like to try and see what they have in Gaudette at centre and perhaps create a third line that can score. With the lack of depth in the centre prospect system, it seems almost imperative that the Canucks find a way to develop Gaudette to be a responsible centre. Unless they acquire or find another suitable centre, he is our guy going forward on the third line as I doubt the Canucks reup Sutter. Gaudette still isn't great at faceoffs and isn't defensively sound as Sutter so it would seem more natural to have Sutter there, but that way you can orient this line to take more ozone faceoffs rather than starting it in the dzone. Allowing Bo and Beagle's line to take them.

 

2) Green wants to use Horvat as the shutdown line, Sutter and Beagle redundantly do the same thing at centre, so it makes no sense to have 3 lines that become defensively oriented. Additionally, perhaps due to his hernia injuries 2 in the past 2 years, his faceoff proficiency has dropped. Past 2 seasons, his average has been 48%. Not bad, but surely not to the same calibre where he was consistently well above 50%. Additionally perhaps this serves as a way to preserve Brandon Sutter, it seems to be that playing centre wears him down a lot and to 'preserve him' is to take the burden off at centre and become a checking winger.  Sutter has a notable shot coming off the right wing, and serves as a natural right hand shot presence on that line, which not only impacts offense, but is notably a big plus when you are in the defensive zone clearing pucks off the boards on his natural wing side.

 

3) Green prefers a defensive minded player on the wing with Bo, to have a full on match line, Sutter still has the mind and legs to play that sort of style. Using his strength and defensive skills, and adding another centre to Bo's line can take some burden off of Bo in the faceoff dot. Additionally, still uses Sutter's defensive capacity but channeling it to another area to help take the load off Bo Horvat.  To have 2 additional checking lines with Sutter and Beagle really just leads to a trap system game and very little offensive pushback. 

 

4) It allows to orient a potential third scoring line with Gaudette, Virtanen, Roussel, MacEwen, Baertschi etc. More flexibility and perhaps a softer matchup line for secondary scoring. We all saw the playoffs how eventually the roster became a 1 line offensive output and 3 defensive lines. That is just a recipe for being hemmed into the zone, and notions of the old style of game we used to play. Let the twins do their stuff while everyone else just hold on for dear life. We need more offensive pushback especially if Bo's line becomes dedicated to matchup against the top lines.

 

5) Most importantly, perhaps there is a better option than Loui Eriksson. Green has been reluctant to use Virtanen here, Boeser doesn't seem to jive well on this line due to its defensive orientation, MacEwen just isn't quite ready to take on defensive responsibility, and Eriksson provides little offensive pushback. Not that Sutter is an offensive juggernaut, but he has shown he can put up some offense, mostly on the wing. 

 

Not saying this is a great option, but as I look at the roster construction, and see there should be options explored to optimize the style Green likes to play. 

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearason-Horvat-Sutter

Baertschi/Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

[Toyotasfan]

I have watched every Sutter who’s played in the NHL . Is Brandon adopted  because He is bringing shame to the Sutter name after watching him lately. I think he’s sucking the energy out of Motte as well. I’d slot in Louie over him right now . 

 

Ahh , I think I finally found a replacement for Pouliot rants .

[SilentSam]

On 1/19/2021 at 12:56 PM, Toyotasfan said:

I have watched every Sutter who’s played in the NHL . Is Brandon adopted  because He is bringing shame to the Sutter name after watching him lately. I think he’s sucking the energy out of Motte as well. I’d slot in Louie over him right now . 

 

Ahh , I think I finally found a replacement for Pouliot rants .

I don’t get the lack of work ethic ... 

is it a wonder why we like the “want” and “desire” in the game of kids in there 20’s?

This is why some of the bigger contracts will go to RFA ‘s.  
And the 30 yr old veteran who used to get his best pay day as a UFA,.  will be pushed out of the game by way of attraction.

 

[J-P]

Sutter is smart defensively but hard not to question his effort at times and offensively it's depressing to see how often plays die on his stick leaving his linemates frustrated.

[BarnBurner]

He's played solid this year. But keep in mind, it's his contract year. He's playing for his next deal... with another team. 

[Goal:thecup]

Don't be surprised if Sutter is re-upped with a team friendly contract with no movement protection.

For example, $1m per year, plus available for trade as a throw-in or for a pick from a team that needs that one last center/winger for their run.

At a mill a year, Sutter would be a very good deal, imo.

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, J-P said:

Sutter is smart defensively but hard not to question his effort at times and offensively it's depressing to see how often plays die on his stick leaving his linemates frustrated.

Hands of stone eh? No effort, eh?

 

 

[Phil_314]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Hands of stone eh? No effort, eh?

 

 

Ultimately hockey's a results-based sport/ business.  When extrapolated over a full season, he's averaged 10-15 goals (over 82 games), which is not bad for a healthy 3rd line center.  The problem is he's also not healthy or consistent when it comes to showings like these (I don't know how many other rushes or shots in close that he put wide or hit Beagle's stick with his shot, but there have been a bunch, which is frustrating to see).   

Agreed with @Goal:thecup, if he signed for what Turris did in Edmonton even, he'd be a solid depth piece and those misses would be much more excusable.  Same would be said if Roussel and Beagle re-upped for the same discounts.

[-AJ-]

25 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Ultimately hockey's a results-based sport/ business.  When extrapolated over a full season, he's averaged 10-15 goals (over 82 games), which is not bad for a healthy 3rd line center.  The problem is he's also not healthy or consistent when it comes to showings like these (I don't know how many other rushes or shots in close that he put wide or hit Beagle's stick with his shot, but there have been a bunch, which is frustrating to see).   

Agreed with @Goal:thecup, if he signed for what Turris did in Edmonton even, he'd be a solid depth piece and those misses would be much more excusable.  Same would be said if Roussel and Beagle re-upped for the same discounts.

Yeah, I'm not saying Sutter is an offensive superstar by any means, but I do think his offensive skill is underrated when it's considered equal to, say, Beagle's. Sutter pulls a lot of slick stick-handling moves that Beagle hasn't been able to do for five years and as a result, definitely is more capable in an offensive role.

 

I agree he's not worth what he's being paid, but I wouldn't mind a cheap deal for him upon the expiry of his current one, as you indicated.

[Toyotasfan]

You could put him on waivers and there would be no takers . 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Hate to say it but Sutter's been one of our best players this year, he's always been a consistent defender and PKer but he's producing a bit in the offensive zone too lately with some pretty poor linemates. 

 

Say what you want about his contract and trying to move him but who slots in at 3C and the penalty kill role, Gaudette? As much as I love Gaudette, he's one of our worst defensive forwards, not great at faceoffs and not quite strong enough yet. Once Beagle and Sutter leave this team is going to have a massive hole down the middle, and we'll see a trickle-down effect as it starts to weigh all on Bo to carry, so his offence will falter and then as a result so will our top line's. We need these guys at 3C and 4C, it's no wonder why JB called Sutter "foundational"; take it away and the building will collapse...

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

So glad for Sutter to get the hat trick. After such a hard tenure in Vancouver, felt he was due to have some success go his way. He has had a great start to the season. He looks very solid, if he can stay healthy, and move out Beagle and other cash I'd rather hold onto him as a fourth line C.