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Erik Gudbranson | #44 | D


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On 1/28/2019 at 11:06 AM, aGENT said:

Tend to agree that it's likely his more 'ideal' partner is more of a 2 way D that excels at moving the puck. He doesn't tend to mesh well with more outright offensive guys (and their offensive tools are largely wasted playing in the secondary defensive role that is his wheelhouse). That's OJ's ceiling (though he does need to work on his play in his own end at the AHL/this level).

 

I'm actually curious to see how Brisebois develops. He strikes me as a bit of a (young) left handed Tanev that plays more of a transitioning defensive D role. Could be a good secondary shutdown, 3rd pairing down the line.

 

Come on Brisebois-Guddy pairing!

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17 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

He's not the worst D in the league. He skates really well, brings a needed physical presence & he can defend man on man. The current group needs his toughness & at times he can be very effective in our own end.

 

I just think Gudbranson's problems are 2 things; He struggles at times reading the play defensively. And his inability/inconsistency moving the puck. 

Gudbranson's real value will not be realized until CUP play. 

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On 2/5/2019 at 3:06 PM, Smashian Kassian said:

He's not the worst D in the league.

I mean, he's up there, at least statistically (and the eye-test supports it).

 

Credit to @Duodenum

 

Gudbranson is now the worst defenseman in the league in goals against per 60 minutes.
Gudbranson is the 2nd worst defenseman in the league in scoring chances against per 60 minutes.
Gudbranson is the 2nd worst defenseman in the league in GF% (difference between goals scored and goals against while on the ice). 
 

All while getting average zone starts and not playing against the other team's best forwards.

 

INB4 this is all swept under the rug as "fancy stat nerd voodoo" even though the concepts are pretty simple and have been tracked for decades by people in and outside the game.

 

On 2/5/2019 at 3:06 PM, Smashian Kassian said:

I just think Gudbranson's problems are 2 things; He struggles at times reading the play defensively. And his inability/inconsistency moving the puck. 

 

In other words... he's not very good at the two main things D-men do?

 

Can't tell if you're defending him or not.

Edited by kanucks25
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8 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

I mean, he's up there, at least statistically (and the eye-test supports it).

 

Credit to @Duodenum

 

Gudbranson is now the worst defenseman in the league in goals against per 60 minutes.
Gudbranson is the 2nd worst defenseman in the league in scoring chances against per 60 minutes.
Gudbranson is the 2nd worst defenseman in the league in GF% (difference between goals scored and goals against while on the ice). 
 

All while getting average zone starts and not playing against the other team's best forwards.

 

INB4 this is all swept under the rug as "fancy stat nerd voodoo" even though the concepts are pretty simple and have been tracked for decades by people in and outside the game.

 

 

In other words... he's not very good at the two main things D-men do?

 

Can't tell if you're defending him or not.

 

Im more or less on your side. Ive been holding out hope for guddy the last few years. I do appreciate he brings toughness & muscle that we absolutely need. But its not looking good. I got ripped b4 for suggesting move Guddy for draft picks but i stand by that.

 

One again his lack of awareness came thru on the 2nd Debrincat goal.

 

The trade hasnt worked out. Gudbransons icetime/role has been declining. We'll need to replace his toughness/muscle 100%. But its time to move on & revamp this defense. 

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38 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I'll take the word of guys like Jovanoski over the stats geeks who fetishize over Gudbranson, and have no actual concept of the game.

I love how a "hockey guy" just confirmed what Gudbranson's "geek" detractors have been saying all along but you still managed to take a shot at said "geeks".

 

I guess I gotta admire the hustle lol

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16 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I'll take the word of guys like Jovanoski over the stats geeks who fetishize over Gudbranson, and have no actual concept of the game.

And Willie Mitchell. And Luongo. 

 

Every once in a while I go look at one of the pages of the guys making the charts. You see hilarious things on there like Beagle is terrible, Del Zotto was our best d, and other such nonsense. 

 

tumblr_ml1idnyyiX1rflnceo1_500.gif.02c83ebcc448de7ba2a6da6cb5dc265c.gif

Edited by Jimmy McGill
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2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I love how a "hockey guy" just confirmed what Gudbranson's "geek" detractors have been saying all along but you still managed to take a shot at said "geeks".

 

I guess I gotta admire the hustle lol

Why are stats guys assumed to be weaklings, who never played, but (instead) we’re always watching from the sidelines wishing they could play, and fiddling with stats is their only way to participate?  

Guddy needs a partner who is brilliant at skating to move the puck.  Then Guddy can do all the heaving work to free up pucks for his dynamically gifted partner.  When Hughes arrives, we will see him with Guddy.  Then Guddy will not even be noticed out there.  He will free up pucks, and Quinn will use his talents to move those pucks up ice.  

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Just now, Alflives said:

Why are stats guys assumed to be weaklings, who never played, but (instead) we’re always watching from the sidelines wishing they could play, and fiddling with stats is their only way to participate?  

Guddy needs a partner who is brilliant at skating to move the puck.  Then Guddy can do all the heaving work to free up pucks for his dynamically gifted partner.  When Hughes arrives, we will see him with Guddy.  Then Guddy will not even be noticed out there.  He will free up pucks, and Quinn will use his talents to move those pucks up ice.  

 

oh Alf. 

 

Filipovic_Dimitri-300x300.jpg.c28d162d5005ddb767d3161fac6c1a55.jpg

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35 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

And Willie Mitchell. And Luongo. 

 

Every once in a while I go look at one of the pages of the guys making the charts. You see hilarious things on there like Beagle is terrible, Del Zotto was our best d, and other such nonsense. 

Who said MDZ was our best D? lol

 

And not many people thought Beagle is terrible, just that it's a terrible contract for an older 4th liner.

 

34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why are stats guys assumed to be weaklings, who never played, but (instead) we’re always watching from the sidelines wishing they could play, and fiddling with stats is their only way to participate?  

Guddy needs a partner who is brilliant at skating to move the puck.  Then Guddy can do all the heaving work to free up pucks for his dynamically gifted partner.  When Hughes arrives, we will see him with Guddy.  Then Guddy will not even be noticed out there.  He will free up pucks, and Quinn will use his talents to move those pucks up ice.  

Last thing we need is for Quinn to have to carry an anchor around. He needs to be paired with someone who can shelter him, not someone he's going to have to waste a ton of energy on bailing out in the D-Zone.

 

33 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That he's struggling? Yeah, Jovo confirmed that for sure. I'm sure Guddy would say the same.

 

That's far different than your narrative though. Trying to state that Jovo is confirming your biased slant is the definition of reaching. Jovo hasn't stated that Gudbranson's one of the worst defenseman in the league, because he has a respect for what fellow players do, whereas you, in your infinite knowledge and experience of the game are poised and ready to strike with your analyticzzzzz.

Yes, my take is biased but you're 100% impartial.

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

And Willie Mitchell. And Luongo. 

 

Every once in a while I go look at one of the pages of the guys making the charts. You see hilarious things on there like Beagle is terrible, Del Zotto was our best d, and other such nonsense. 

 

tumblr_ml1idnyyiX1rflnceo1_500.gif.02c83ebcc448de7ba2a6da6cb5dc265c.gif

And some even admit to never watching games. I believe yourself and aGENT have mentioned how advanced statistics aren't the best tool in measuring a defenseman's performance.

 

As you've said, I'll take the words of those you actually have experience in the game, especially at the NHL level, over those who are chomping at the bit to detract.

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1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Who said MDZ was our best D? lol

 

And not many people thought Beagle is terrible, just that it's a terrible contract for an older 4th liner.

 

I'll see if I can find that again, one of the custom chart guru's.

 

My issue with nearly all of what I've seen from the publicly available hockey analytics is, well, its not technically analytical. They rarely provide a full methodology, or all of their assumptions. There's also a great deal of bias towards shooting. Add to that there isn't really a good set of metrics at all for defensive play. I actually have some stats training and it bugs me that many of these guys make big claims like the recent ones about Guddy, when so much of the "analysis" isn't really proper analysis, its opinion. 

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35 minutes ago, SingleThorn said:

Gudbranson struggling ! Who cares. Bo is in a scoring slump. Let's tie him to the whipping post too.

Bo's on pace for 62 points while playing with lesser and inconsistent linemates. Not to mention the tough minutes he's had to play all season due to our injuries at center.

 

Bo is an example of a player persevering despite tough deployment.

 

Which is the opposite of Gudbranson, who's struggling despite soft/average deployment.

Edited by kanucks25
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Just now, kanucks25 said:

Bo's on pace for 62 points while playing with lesser and inconsistent linemates. Not to mention the tough minutes he's had to play all season due to our injuries at center.

 

Bo is an example of a player persevering despite tough deployment.

 

Which is the opposite of Gudbranson, who's struggling despite soft/average deployment.

zzzzzzzzzzzz

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38 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'll see if I can find that again, one of the custom chart guru's.

 

My issue with nearly all of what I've seen from the publicly available hockey analytics is, well, its not technically analytical. They rarely provide a full methodology, or all of their assumptions. There's also a great deal of bias towards shooting. Add to that there isn't really a good set of metrics at all for defensive play. I actually have some stats training and it bugs me that many of these guys make big claims like the recent ones about Guddy, when so much of the "analysis" isn't really proper analysis, its opinion. 

Throw "analytics" aside. Anybody who watches the game can see Gudbranson is constantly lost in the D-zone and has an extremely difficult time making outlet passes.

 

The "numbers" only support what we see.

 

Really baffling why people are taking such a hard contrarian stand on this lol.

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