WHL rocks Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Or we could make the playoffs this year and not have to worry about next year. We are 6 points out of 1st in the Pacific (albeit 6 points from being last in the Pacific) and 3 points back of the last wild card spot currently and we have a game or two in hand on most of the teams above us currently. The only situation I see us trading Tanev is if Tryamkin indeed does return and plays lights out for us. Who would be the 2 rookie D full time next year even if Tanev is gone? Agreed we have to try make playoffs. Need Edler back and go on a good run. But there are some good teams we're up against. 4 of the teams will make it 3 won't. Edmonton Calgary Dallas Nashville Minnesota Vancouver Chicago It'll be a tough fight to get in..that's why they play the games. We'll see what happens I think Stecher goes ... If Tanev goes and Fattenberg isn't brought back he's ufa...you need to fill those spots Tryamkin Rafferty rookie Chatfield/ Brisebois / OJ ?? Some posters are saying they want to see vets traded and young kids brought in.. So if we bring the kids up move the vets were going to take a step back.. likely be looking at a top 5 pick again next year.. unless they play like Quinn Hughes but that's not happening he's a special talent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydog Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Theres not 1 D-man in Utica that can replace what Tanev brings to this team atm. Sure maybe a year or 2 or 3 maybe someone breaks out to provide that stability.Quite a fewD from Utica have been called up this year alone. Maybe they haven't played a game or more but coaching staff are definately having a look.during practices. Why trade a guy like Tanev away when he will be the guy staff will be looking for during playoffs.Could be quite an expensive gamble.I think as much as Tanev has done for Quinn the reverse could be said. Tanev very rarely gets hammered into the boards regularly, hes moving hes feet .Barely ever stationary. His first pass out is almost perfect to clear the zone. thats not dumping it down ice but a pass .The forwards have also chipped in blocking shots more often at the shooter not allowing Tanev to jump in front 15 feet away. I believe thats why Tanev is as healthy as opposed to years before. As i have mentioned before my belief is Tanev will sign a team friendly contract, both money and term to be part of this team. Ive heard it before and agree that we wont get anything close in return for what he offers us now. Hes a keeper. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 minute ago, WHL rocks said: Agreed we have to try make playoffs. Need Edler back and go on a good run. But there are some good teams we're up against. 4 of the teams will make it 3 won't. Edmonton Calgary Dallas Nashville Minnesota Vancouver Chicago It'll be a tough fight to get in..that's why they play the games. We'll see what happens I think Stecher goes ... If Tanev goes and Fattenberg isn't brought back he's ufa...you need to fill those spots Tryamkin Rafferty rookie Chatfield/ Brisebois / OJ ?? Some posters are saying they want to see vets traded and young kids brought in.. So if we bring the kids up move the vets were going to take a step back.. likely be looking at a top 5 pick again next year.. unless they play like Quinn Hughes but that's not happening he's a special talent. Certainly not an easy path to the playoffs, but we are very much in it and should be focused on this year before being concerned about next year with the small chance that our team plummets or win the lottery with the odds of the 14-15th pick. If we just miss the playoffs next year again (assuming we miss this year), I'd be surprised if we "won" the lottery with our pick, so a 14-15th overall pick for what we are getting in Miller is well worth it. Teams have done much worse. Fantenberg is a replaceable piece. Not that concerned here, there will be plenty of potential UFA guys that would take that spot if he doesn't return at a cheap price or if a Sautner type player doesn't assume the role. Tryamkin takes up one of Tanev or Stecher and while we need to see what he can do now, he isn't a rookie. So it really leaves one spot for a rookie that goes to the player that earns the spot. I don't see that being an issue moving forward for us next season that would see our team collapsing. A lot does ride on Tryamkin being able to step in. Keeping Tanev for this season can help us ease his transition back to NA hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dannydog said: Theres not 1 D-man in Utica that can replace what Tanev brings to this team atm. Sure maybe a year or 2 or 3 maybe someone breaks out to provide that stability.Quite a fewD from Utica have been called up this year alone. Maybe they haven't played a game or more but coaching staff are definately having a look.during practices. Why trade a guy like Tanev away when he will be the guy staff will be looking for during playoffs.Could be quite an expensive gamble.I think as much as Tanev has done for Quinn the reverse could be said. Tanev very rarely gets hammered into the boards regularly, hes moving hes feet .Barely ever stationary. His first pass out is almost perfect to clear the zone. thats not dumping it down ice but a pass .The forwards have also chipped in blocking shots more often at the shooter not allowing Tanev to jump in front 15 feet away. I believe thats why Tanev is as healthy as opposed to years before. As i have mentioned before my belief is Tanev will sign a team friendly contract, both money and term to be part of this team. Ive heard it before and agree that we wont get anything close in return for what he offers us now. Hes a keeper. The team friendly contract is going to be key. We can't afford him at market value. It's going to depend how much he loves this city and wants to remain a Canuck for his career. But I think personally for him, he should be chasing the big payout in UFA or at least seek offers before deciding if he should stay here. I wouldn't blame him for doing so and I would wish him the best. I agree that we shouldn't be trading him. Just doesn't make sense on so many levels. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Fantenberg is a replaceable piece. Not that concerned here, there will be plenty of potential UFA guys that would take that spot if he doesn't return at a cheap price or if a Sautner type player doesn't assume the role. Tryamkin takes up one of Tanev or Stecher and while we need to see what he can do now, he isn't a rookie. So it really leaves one spot for a rookie that goes to the player that earns the spot. I don't see that being an issue moving forward for us next season that would see our team collapsing. A lot does ride on Tryamkin being able to step in. Keeping Tanev for this season can help us ease his transition back to NA hockey. You didn't read my post properly. It's not about bringing in other UFAs .. why not just keep fatenberg instead of bringing in a replacement.. he seems to do a fine job as 7D.. .. go back read this thread.. ppl are complaining about Edler being on the team and wish to trade Tanev Stecher to bring rookies up.. That's what I was referring to.. we can't make playoffs with 2 rookies plus Tryamkin on D and taking out Tanev Stecher and Fattenberg.. If you want to miss the playoffs and finish 14th or 15th that's your choice. I don't think Aqua puts up with it. JB will be gone in that scenario.. JB isn't going to lose all his D depth and fill it with rookies. That's not happening. He's taken years to build up the depth. Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Benn Tryamkin Rafferty Rafferty will have chance to break into top 6. Maybe he'll work out great with Tryamkin. Rafferty the offensive guy and Tram the defensive guy. Could turn out to be a very solid pairing depending on the opposition team we are playing on given night. if need more toughness you put in Benn on that 3rd pair. Benn as 7D gives us so much depth. Brisebois is close he'll get some games next year when injuries happen. Edited December 24, 2019 by WHL rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Tracksuit said: edler shouldn’t have been resigned but he was. How ridiculous. Edler is still a top pairing D but you say the Canucks should not have resigned him? Did you prefer pouliot or mdz? Give me a break... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Tracksuit said: Quality response way to add to the group. But i guess that’s how you got your post count up. He is right though. Your "brilliant" idea that the Canucks should not have re signed Edler is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 hour ago, WHL rocks said: You didn't read my post properly. It's not about bringing in other UFAs .. why not just keep fatenberg instead of bringing in a replacement.. he seems to do a fine job as 7D.. .. go back read this thread.. ppl are complaining about Edler being on the team and wish to trade Tanev Stecher to bring rookies up.. That's what I was referring to.. we can't make playoffs with 2 rookies plus Tryamkin on D and taking out Tanev Stecher and Fattenberg.. If you want to miss the playoffs and finish 14th or 15th that's your choice. I don't think Aqua puts up with it. JB will be gone in that scenario.. JB isn't going to lose all his D depth and fill it with rookies. That's not happening. He's taken years to build up the depth. I don't want to be in that position. I want to be in the playoffs this year ideally, so we don't have to hear about how we might lose a lottery pick all year. My point is that if that's what we lose, then it's fine from a team perspective, but we will see things go with JB (I imagine Green goes first). I haven't read anything about bringing up two rookies. We could bring back Fantenberg, but if he wants a raise and we can't afford him, he's a replaceable piece. Other UFAs can help mitigate the issue of having too many rookies. I think most people are believing Tryamkin is returning and while he would be new to the lineup, he's not a rookie. So it really looks like Rafferty is the only guy that may be a rookie and even he will be 25 next year, so it's not like some raw 19 year old. We don't want to lose depth, but we do have a cap to consider and that forces us to make changes, just have to hope it's the right ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracksuit Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Edler 20 when he came into the league tanev 21 when he came into the league KB 24 Huh. But yeah giving young guys the reins never works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 53 minutes ago, Tracksuit said: Edler 20 when he came into the league tanev 21 when he came into the league KB 24 Huh. But yeah giving young guys the reins never works. None of those three players played full seasons in their first years. Tanev played 29 games with 13:47 ATOI. Edler played 22 games with 11:27 ATOI. Bieksa played 39 games.with 16:06 ATOI. You seem to be suggesting our young kids can just fall straight into the lineup and replace Edler and Tanev, right now, who are averaging 23:38 and 19:50 per game, respectively and both against the top players in the league. Sure, maybe a young kid can get 30 games with 13 minutes a game, but don't kid yourself thinking every young defenseman is a Quinn Hughes-calibre defenseman who can play 20 minutes right away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) I’m appreciating Fantenburgs work over Tanevs right now. Each has their contracts expiring this season... 850k vs 4.5m respectively.. 1 of those 2 might bring back a potential prospect or pick for the future before the TDL, or risk losing both? I wouldn’t sign Tanev for more than 3.5 next season.. time to talk to the agent perhaps? Edited December 24, 2019 by SilentSam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Just now, SilentSam said: I’m appreciating Fantenburgs work over Tanevs right now. Each has their contracts expiring this season... 850k vs 4.5m respectively.. 1 of those 2 might bring back a potential prospect or pick for the future before the TDL, or risk losing both? I think a common trap I've fallen into in the past is evaluating the play of 3rd pairing defensemen outside of the context of their competition. I've seen many defenders look good in sheltered 3rd pairing minutes, but then struggle much more with top 4 minutes. Both Stecher and Hutton come to mind. It's worth keeping in mind Tanev plays against the McDavids, Eichels, and Ovechkins of the league whereas Fantenberg is shutting down the 3rd and 4th lines most often. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Just now, -AJ- said: I think a common trap I've fallen into in the past is evaluating the play of 3rd pairing defensemen outside of the context of their competition. I've seen many defenders look good in sheltered 3rd pairing minutes, but then struggle much more with top 4 minutes. Both Stecher and Hutton come to mind. It's worth keeping in mind Tanev plays against the McDavids, Eichels, and Ovechkins of the league whereas Fantenberg is shutting down the 3rd and 4th lines most often. I saw some crossing over of the prospected match ups tonight AJ.. I edited my last post.. I don’t think Tanev is worth more than 3.5 next season.. it’s the games he dosent, or haven’t played that hurt us,. and that against the Cap,. And the fact he is not an Ironman. Its an interesting situation,. Espescially with our possible appearance in the playoffs... but realistically, I don’t think Tanev is going to be a common denominator to take us past a 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, -AJ- said: I think a common trap I've fallen into in the past is evaluating the play of 3rd pairing defensemen outside of the context of their competition. I've seen many defenders look good in sheltered 3rd pairing minutes, but then struggle much more with top 4 minutes. Both Stecher and Hutton come to mind. It's worth keeping in mind Tanev plays against the McDavids, Eichels, and Ovechkins of the league whereas Fantenberg is shutting down the 3rd and 4th lines most often. Excellent post. Anyone suggesting Fantenburg is at the level of Tanev has no idea what they are talking about imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: I saw some crossing over of the prospected match ups tonight AJ.. I edited my last post.. I don’t think Tanev is worth more than 3.5 next season.. it’s the games he dosent, or haven’t played that hurt us,. and that against the Cap,. And the fact he is not an Ironman. Its an interesting situation,. Espescially with our possible appearance in the playoffs... but realistically, I don’t think Tanev is going to be a common denominator to take us past a 2nd round. Tanev alone may not take us past a 2nd round, but you're going to take away a top 4 guy and depth for futures. Having that depth is what helps push teams forward should injuries arise. Having Tanev to bolster our D gives us the best chance to even try and make the playoffs this year. He's not signing for 3.5 million unless you're signing him for 8 years with a NMC. I doubt he gets less than 5.5 on the market, so the lowest he might go here is 5 million. Probably will be looking for a 4 year term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Tanev alone may not take us past a 2nd round, but you're going to take away a top 4 guy and depth for futures. Having that depth is what helps push teams forward should injuries arise. Having Tanev to bolster our D gives us the best chance to even try and make the playoffs this year. He's not signing for 3.5 million unless you're signing him for 8 years with a NMC. I doubt he gets less than 5.5 on the market, so the lowest he might go here is 5 million. Probably will be looking for a 4 year term. Highly doubt we sign him here for that.. we have an encore of future talent stacked. Just my opinion , but I would rather resign Fantenberg and add Joulevi next season. I still think Tanev is over rated here.. just because of our tendency to have a lower quality D core over the years, he stands out a little more. +5m will help to sign the talent that really exists on this team over the next 2 seasons.. and not someone who plays 2/3 rds or less of one. Edited December 24, 2019 by SilentSam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Tanev is having a career year, no games missed and on pace for over 20 points. I guess his contract must be up. He could cash in big. He could fetch a 1st round pick at the trade deadline as a rental. If we are out of the playoff hunt it's a no brainer you trade him. However, if we have playoff aspirations then he will definitely be needed come playoff time. While I assume Stecher is moved Tanev is a much tougher call. A lot of fans get very excited about the possibility of playoffs which is understandable. My focus is 3 years out and building a serious CUP contender. Playoff experience is part of that process. That said moving Tanev has to be a hockey trade. Losing his experience has to bring back a major piece or you don't do it. Benning could easily pass on dealing Tanev thinking his prospect pool will give him the pieces he needs. That means letting Tanev walk as a UFA as re-signing Marky takes priority. A thought might be whether Tanev would give a significant home town discount to stay in Van. He strikes me to be that type of guy. He is a 2011 vet just like Edler. Unfinished business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 5 hours ago, SilentSam said: Highly doubt we sign him here for that.. we have an encore of future talent stacked. Just my opinion , but I would rather resign Fantenberg and add Joulevi next season. I still think Tanev is over rated here.. just because of our tendency to have a lower quality D core over the years, he stands out a little more. +5m will help to sign the talent that really exists on this team over the next 2 seasons.. and not someone who plays 2/3 rds or less of one. Neither of those guys would actually "replace" Tanev as they're both LD. I don't expect us to be able to sign Tanev, but I think he gives us the best team moving forward should we be striving for the playoffs and hoping for some success. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Playing good enough to get a very high draft pick from a top team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Playing good enough to get a very high draft pick from a top team. Not likely as a pending UFA. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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