Ryan Miller | #30 | G

[Junkyard Dog]

13 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

I'd say it depends on the market come TD.  If a team has a #1 goalie go down, Miller might fetch a decent return.  Imagine if a player like Jones, or Quick go out long term, Miller would be a perfect fill in for those teams.  Experienced, short term (rental), and wouldn't have an outrageous asking price.

 

Honestly, i can see the stars being interested in Miller this TD.  Miller would be an upgrade on a goalie like Niemi to push Lehtonen even more.  Millers contract will be off the books this summer, freeing up much needed cap space (benn contract extension), and the coach already has a good relationship/ understanding with him. 

It also depends if Markstrom can push his way into the #1 spot and hold on to it, which I think he can. 

 

It will depend on how we're doing more than how the market is.

 

Thing is if we are in a winning spot by TD I doubt we trade Miller. We've had too much success with 2 solid goalies and you always have that chance of one going down. Also our management and coaching staff seems to be taking our time with our goalies, they have stressed that a lot. Markstrom would really have to blow them away for a scenario to happen where we can trade Miller and be competitive, we would also need to find a suitable replacement mid season for a backup role. Seems like an unlikely scenario IMO. Our management and coaching staff have shown that they are fairly cautious when it comes to our goalies development, and also our young defense prospects as well. That cautiousness is a factor to keeping Miller in my eyes.

 

Only way I see us trading Miller is if we are far from a good spot come TD. Then we could chalk it up to another development year and trade Miller for future assets. It would make sense to trade him then. The loss of Miller would cost us wins and get Markstrom a good amount of games during the latter half of the year. Win-win regarding this if we are having a losing season.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Junkyard Dog

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Thing is if we are in a winning spot by TD I doubt we trade Miller. We've had too much success with 2 solid goalies and you always have that chance of one going down. Also our management and coaching staff seems to be taking our time with our goalies, they have stressed that a lot. Markstrom would really have to blow them away for a scenario to happen where we can trade Miller and be competitive, we would also need to find a suitable replacement mid season for a backup role. Seems like an unlikely scenario IMO. Our management and coaching staff have shown that they are fairly cautious when it comes to our goalies development, and also our young defense prospects as well. That cautiousness is a factor to keeping Miller in my eyes.

 

Only way I see us trading Miller is if we are far from a good spot come TD. Then we could chalk it up to another development year and trade Miller for future assets. It would make sense to trade him then. The loss of Miller would cost us wins and get Markstrom a good amount of games during the latter half of the year. Win-win regarding this if we are having a losing season.

That's why I suggest the stars as a good suitor for Miller, it's a win-win for both teams.

 

Miller (retain 50%) to Dallas

For Niemi + conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 1st if stars make it to WCF)

 

Stars would do this because:

They upgrade on a 1B goalie.  Miller is still good enough to push for a #1 spot as he’s proved in vancouver, he’s very familiar with Ruff, he doesn’t cost the stars much in assets to make an improvement. And at 50% retained stars will still have lots of cap room for improving other areas.  The biggest reason the stars like this is Millers cap comes off the books next year (where Niemi’s doesn’t) freeing up needed cap space for the Benn extension.

 

Canucks would do this because:

They get an asset for miller who will be walking in the summer. They also get a decent (somewhat expensive 1B) goalie to push Markstrom for the fallowing season, allowing us not to rush Demko into the NHL. 

 

 

Or even a bigger package, involving bigger pieces.

 

Miller (retain 50%) + Edler to Dallas

For Niemi + conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 1st if stars make it to WCF) + Nichushkin

Edited September 13, 2016 by ForsbergTheGreat

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

That's why I suggest the stars as a good suitor for Miller, it's a win-win for both teams.

 

Miller (retain 50%) to Dallas

For Niemi + conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 1st if stars make it to WCF)

 

Stars would do this because:

They upgrade on a 1B goalie.  Miller is still good enough to push for a #1 spot as he’s proved in vancouver, he’s very familiar with Ruff, he doesn’t cost the stars much in assets to make an improvement. And at 50% retained stars will still have lots of cap room for improving other areas.  The biggest reason the stars like this is Millers cap comes off the books next year (where Niemi’s doesn’t) freeing up needed cap space for the Benn extension.

 

Canucks would do this because:

They get an asset for miller who will be walking in the summer. They also get a decent (somewhat expensive 1B) goalie to push Markstrom for the fallowing season, allowing us not to rush Demko into the NHL. 

Dallas could possibly do a lot of things regarding their goalie situation. That is only one option and not a very appealing one.

 

Both their goalies will be an upcoming UFA the following year after this one. If they were signed longer then yeah it would be a good trade for them but considering the fact that they are not it is very capable for the Stars to trade one of their goalies for whatever they desire, varying on the value of whom their trading. Niemi and Lehtonen would be appealing for teams that could use goaltending support for a season.

 

That way they get a pick/prospect and don't give up a high one for losing a goalie just for cap relief. That pick can get them an actual player at TD that will really help them and not a small upgrade in an area that is not as needed just for cap when they have a lot of options to fix that. And if they really wanted a goalie upgrade they would probably go after Bishop or even Fleury over Miller.

 

All in all they are a lot more viable options for the Stars than that one. If it was a 3rd/4th and/or an average prospect than it would be more appealing for them considering that they would still have those early picks and good prospects to make those deadline deals they want to make to help them get over the hump as well as get a small improvement to their goaltending with some cap relief.

 

Their hands aren't as tied as you are lead to believe though. They have plenty of options regarding their cap. That on top of the fact that they need that pick to make that all important deadline deal for that big upgrade they need give them enough reason not to want to trade that important early pick for, mainly, cap relief.

 

I hope I have made a bit of sense.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

30 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Dallas could possibly do a lot of things regarding their goalie situation. That is only one option and not a very appealing one.

 

Both their goalies will be an upcoming UFA the following year after this one. If they were signed longer then yeah it would be a good trade for them but considering the fact that they are not it is very capable for the Stars to trade one of their goalies for whatever they desire, varying on the value of whom their trading. Niemi and Lehtonen would be appealing for teams that could use goaltending support for a season.

 

Not when they are in cap troubles starting next season.  The Benn extension kicks in and the stars have a lot of holes that will be needed to be filled, the stars can't afford to keep the expensive goalie tandem starting next year..  Add in that Stars have already shown interest in wanting to upgrade their goaltending them summer according to Mike Heika.  Now there aren't really a lot of options to upgrade their goaltending time year while at the same time making sure they have cap space for next year.  That limits them to rentals (upcoming UFA's) or going a completely new direction with their goalie situation, which would mean stars would have to get rid of both current goalies to work with their cap.  Heika suggest Bishop but realizes the cost to acquire would be high and that both Lehtonen and Niemi would have moved as they wouldn't be able to afford an expect goalie tandem again.  He also suggest Miller is the best available UFA rental goalie that could be considered an upgrade on Niemi and if could be had for a 2nd round pick along with the dump of a Niemi cap hit, it would make sense, (depending how Miller looks this season).

 

30 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

That way they get a pick/prospect and don't give up a high one for losing a goalie just for cap relief. That pick can get them an actual player at TD that will really help them and not a small upgrade in an area that is not as needed just for cap when they have a lot of options to fix that. And if they really wanted a goalie upgrade they would probably go after Bishop or even Fleury over Miller.

Niemi and Lehtonen don't have much value, they are too expensive for many teams to take on as a goaltending support, Stars don't have cap flexability to retain cap and the goalie market will be flooded with goalies this summer with the upcoming expansion draft. Just look around the league and try to find a team that would be interested in taking on either of them and be willing to pay a pick/prospect. Bishop and Fluery wont come cheap, they will start with Nichuskin going the other way and it also means stars have to try moving both Lehtonen and Niemi as they wont be able to afford another expensive tandem.  

 

30 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

All in all they are a lot more viable options for the Stars than that one. If it was a 3rd/4th and/or an average prospect than it would be more appealing for them considering that they would still have those early picks and good prospects to make those deadline deals they want to make to help them get over the hump as well as get a small improvement to their goaltending with some cap relief.

 

Their hands aren't as tied as you are lead to believe though. They have plenty of options regarding their cap. That on top of the fact that they need that pick to make that all important deadline deal for that big upgrade they need give them enough reason not to want to trade that important early pick for, mainly, cap relief.

 

I hope I have made a bit of sense.

I understand what your trying to say but it really I think your just trying to stick to your guns about Miller not being moved, which i think does happen.  Miller being a good fit Dallas isn't even my own suggestion, it was stars own beat writer which suggests it's a more appealing move than you give credit.

[N4ZZY]

45 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Not when they are in cap troubles starting next season.  The Benn extension kicks in and the stars have a lot of holes that will be needed to be filled, the stars can't afford to keep the expensive goalie tandem starting next year..  Add in that Stars have already shown interest in wanting to upgrade their goaltending them summer according to Mike Heika.  Now there aren't really a lot of options to upgrade their goaltending time year while at the same time making sure they have cap space for next year.  That limits them to rentals (upcoming UFA's) or going a completely new direction with their goalie situation, which would mean stars would have to get rid of both current goalies to work with their cap.  Heika suggest Bishop but realizes the cost to acquire would be high and that both Lehtonen and Niemi would have moved as they wouldn't be able to afford an expect goalie tandem again.  He also suggest Miller is the best available UFA rental goalie that could be considered an upgrade on Niemi and if could be had for a 2nd round pick along with the dump of a Niemi cap hit, it would make sense, (depending how Miller looks this season).

 

Niemi and Lehtonen don't have much value, they are too expensive for many teams to take on as a goaltending support, Stars don't have cap flexability to retain cap and the goalie market will be flooded with goalies this summer with the upcoming expansion draft. Just look around the league and try to find a team that would be interested in taking on either of them and be willing to pay a pick/prospect. Bishop and Fluery wont come cheap, they will start with Nichuskin going the other way and it also means stars have to try moving both Lehtonen and Niemi as they wont be able to afford another expensive tandem.  

 

I understand what your trying to say but it really I think your just trying to stick to your guns about Miller not being moved, which i think does happen.  Miller being a good fit Dallas isn't even my own suggestion, it was stars own beat writer which suggests it's a more appealing move than you give credit.

if the team is trying to make the playoffs. would they move a veteran goalie? 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Not when they are in cap troubles starting next season.  The Benn extension kicks in and the stars have a lot of holes that will be needed to be filled, the stars can't afford to keep the expensive goalie tandem starting next year..  Add in that Stars have already shown interest in wanting to upgrade their goaltending them summer according to Mike Heika.  Now there aren't really a lot of options to upgrade their goaltending time year while at the same time making sure they have cap space for next year.  That limits them to rentals (upcoming UFA's) or going a completely new direction with their goalie situation, which would mean stars would have to get rid of both current goalies to work with their cap.  Heika suggest Bishop but realizes the cost to acquire would be high and that both Lehtonen and Niemi would have moved as they wouldn't be able to afford an expect goalie tandem again.  He also suggest Miller is the best available UFA rental goalie that could be considered an upgrade on Niemi and if could be had for a 2nd round pick along with the dump of a Niemi cap hit, it would make sense, (depending how Miller looks this season).

 

Niemi and Lehtonen don't have much value, they are too expensive for many teams to take on as a goaltending support, Stars don't have cap flexability to retain cap and the goalie market will be flooded with goalies this summer with the upcoming expansion draft. Just look around the league and try to find a team that would be interested in taking on either of them and be willing to pay a pick/prospect. Bishop and Fluery wont come cheap, they will start with Nichuskin going the other way and it also means stars have to try moving both Lehtonen and Niemi as they wont be able to afford another expensive tandem.  

 

I understand what your trying to say but it really I think your just trying to stick to your guns about Miller not being moved, which i think does happen.  Miller being a good fit Dallas isn't even my own suggestion, it was stars own beat writer which suggests it's a more appealing move than you give credit.

You have to understand they're a pretty cautious group with the goalies.They've said that they even consider to extend Miller at the end of his contract when the trade rumors began last off-season. I doubt that they would even want to trade Miller if we are winning. Markstrom would probably have to consistently play like a top 10 goalie throughout the year for them to consider to trade Miller.

 

They've had too much success with 2 goalies so why stop that? That's how they see it.

 

I doubt the stars want a goalie. I was just pointing out that they have multiple options, some of which are better options. Yeah those options would require more but they would actually be worth the price unlike Miller. Trading their 1st/2nd for Miller would be bad for them. They need that pick for an actual upgrade. They have multiple options to fix their cap, none of which will require them to waste a 1st for a asset that won't make that much of a significance.

 

If it was for a mid pick and/or average prospect then it would make sense for them. Miller is not that important of an asset to give up a 1st/2nd, they can address their cap in many different ways.

 

I am not trying to stick to my guns. I even implied that Miller should be traded if we are far from being in the race for the playoffs. I am just trying to look at our goalies how our management would and your proposal from Dallas's POV. Looking at it from Dallas's POV it is not a good deal for them. Not having that pick will hurt them when every other team will be spending their early picks and top prospects at the top trade targets. It won't help them when they need to try and outbid other teams for a player they need to help them over the hump.

 

They are in win now mode and yeah next year Benn's cap will increase but they have multiple options to adjust for that.

 

They only have Lehtonen and Niemi for 2 more seasons. They can manage and dealing one of them after this season or even buying one of them out, it isn't as difficult as you make it out. They will have just under 50million in cap at the end of this season with the Benn extension and both goalies. You could probably expect Hemsky and perhaps Oduya being let go and their non big-name RFAs being signed for cheap, 1 year deals considering they will have more cap to sign them during the next off-season both the goalies contracts up.

 

Swap the pick for a lesser one and/or an average prospect and it is a fair deal for Dallas. And don't get me wrong if Markstrom plays lights out and carries the team for us to be good enough to trade Miller I would be ecstatic. I Just don't expect us to get that much of a return from Dallas if we decided to make that kind of deal.

 

I am just trying to look at it from both sides of the coin.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

13 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

if the team is trying to make the playoffs. would they move a veteran goalie? 

Depends on Marky Mark.  He was signed to become our #1 by the start of next season, so it would make sense in his progression if he's taken over the role by this trade deadline.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

You have to understand they're a pretty cautious group with the goalies.They've said that they even consider to extend Miller at the end of his contract when the trade rumors began last off-season. I doubt that they would even want to trade Miller if we are winning. Markstrom would probably have to consistently play like a top 10 goalie throughout the year for them to consider to trade Miller.

 

They've had too much success with 2 goalies so why stop that? That's how they see it.

 

Markstrom was signed to be the number one guy.  At some point they are going to have to give him the reigns.  We'd also be getting a 1b coming back so we'd still be using 2 goalies.

 

10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I doubt the stars want a goalie. I was just pointing out that they have multiple options, some of which are better options. Yeah those options would require more but they would actually be worth the price unlike Miller. Trading their 1st/2nd for Miller would be bad for them. They need that pick for an actual upgrade. They have multiple options to fix their cap, none of which will require them to waste a 1st for a asset that won't make that much of a significance.

 

If it was for a mid pick and/or average prospect then it would make sense for them. Miller is not that important of an asset to give up a 1st/2nd, they can address their cap in many different ways.

 

Jill Nill has been reported to be looking to upgrade his goaltending already, and will try to make that push even hard before playoffs.  You are sort of missing the value coming back to Vancouver.  It's a 2nd round picks to become a conditional 1st depending on playoff success.  Just like they did with Russell last year.  The 2nd isn't worth very much since stars will likely once again be in the top end of the league 50+ and it only becomes first if they have success, thus reducing any risk on their end.  Stars biggest need is on their back end, they need another top 4 LHD and better goaltending.  They have enough offensive already.

 

10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am not trying to stick to my guns. I even implied that Miller should be traded if we are far from being in the race for the playoffs. I am just trying to look at our goalies how our management would and your proposal from Dallas's POV. Looking at it from Dallas's POV it is not a good deal for them. Not having that pick will hurt them when every other team will be spending their early picks and top prospects at the top trade targets. It won't help them when they need to try and outbid other teams for a player they need to help them over the hump.

 

They are in win now mode and yeah next year Benn's cap will increase but they have multiple options to adjust for that.

 

They only have Lehtonen and Niemi for 2 more seasons. They can manage and dealing one of them after this season or even buying one of them out, it isn't as difficult as you make it out. They will have just under 50million in cap at the end of this season with the Benn extension and both goalies. You could probably expect Hemsky and perhaps Oduya being let go and their non big-name RFAs being signed for cheap, 1 year deals considering they will have more cap to sign them during the next off-season both the goalies contracts up.

 

Swap the pick for a lesser one and/or an average prospect and it is a fair deal for Dallas. And don't get me wrong if Markstrom plays lights out and carries the team for us to be good enough to trade Miller I would be ecstatic. I Just don't expect us to get that much of a return from Dallas if we decided to make that kind of deal.

 

I am just trying to look at it from both sides of the coin.

I guess we will just watch and see how this season plays out, I think the writing is on the wall for Miller at the end of this season. And canucks fully expect Marky to be the number 1 before the TD.

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

I'd say it depends on the market come TD.  If a team has a #1 goalie go down, Miller might fetch a decent return.  Imagine if a player like Jones, or Quick go out long term, Miller would be a perfect fill in for those teams.  Experienced, short term (rental), and wouldn't have an outrageous asking price.

 

Honestly, i can see the stars being interested in Miller this TD.  Miller would be an upgrade on a goalie like Niemi to push Lehtonen even more.  Millers contract will be off the books this summer, freeing up much needed cap space (benn contract extension), and the coach already has a good relationship/ understanding with him. 

It also depends if Markstrom can push his way into the #1 spot and hold on to it, which I think he can. 

 

Well said.  If Demko has another stellar year, he could be bullying his way up the depth chart by the end of the year.  Markstrom proved he belonged last year with near identical numbers as Miller, which were pretty much right in the middle as far as number one goalies went last season....and that was in front of a pretty smacked up and weak defense.  This year the defense has improved somewhat, and if healthy could make things much easier for them, logically that could mean better numbers from them.  Miller won't be coming back next year, even if we make the playoffs or we are a bubble team near the deadline I say go ahead and trade him for as much as we can get.  If we are lucky it will be a first rounder from a good team with injuries who needs a capable option in Miller.  Then next year we have more ammunition at the draft table, and with Bennings record at picking late first rounders, we could have another Brock coming up the pipe-line. 

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Depends on Marky Mark.  He was signed to become our #1 by the start of next season, so it would make sense in his progression if he's taken over the role by this trade deadline.

Totally depends on Markstrom's play but also Demko. A strong season in Utica could give Benning the comfort level to deal Miller at the TDL. What is offered for Miller makes all the dif but the reality is that Van will not resign him.

 

IMHO Markstrom showed last year that he can carry the load and on a rebuilding team Miller's value is not what it was. Still a good tender and therefore has TDL value. Miller will likely look forward to a move to a contender.

[SabreFan1]

Nobody is going to trade for Miller unless they have an injured goalie right before the TDL and are really desperate for a netminder and are in playoff contention and there is no better option at a cheaper cost. 

 

That's a whole lot of "and" that have to fall in line at the perfect time no less.

 

Unless he's willing to play for peanuts on another team next season, this is his last season in the NHL.  The market just isn't there for expensive average goaltenders that are on the downside of their career.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

Nobody is going to trade for Miller unless they have an injured goalie right before the TDL and are really desperate for a netminder and are in playoff contention and there is no better option at a cheaper cost. 

 

That's a whole lot of "and" that have to fall in line at the perfect time no less.

 

Unless he's willing to play for peanuts on another team next season, this is his last season in the NHL.  The market just isn't there for expensive average goaltenders that are on the downside of their career.

Your likely right but I'm hoping a desperate playoff bound team will take him because of his experience. They won't be making a long term commitment with his existing contract.

[tyhee]

7 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Nobody is going to trade for Miller unless they have an injured goalie right before the TDL and are really desperate for a netminder and are in playoff contention and there is no better option at a cheaper cost. 

 

That's a whole lot of "and" that have to fall in line at the perfect time no less.

 

Unless he's willing to play for peanuts on another team next season, this is his last season in the NHL.  The market just isn't there for expensive average goaltenders that are on the downside of their career.

I agree with most of this, though there are a couple of things that argue in favour of Miller being traded at the deadline. 

 

It should be remembered though that cost is much less of a factor at the trade deadline because there is so little time left in the rest of the regular season.  A team at that time wouldn't need as much cap space to take on Miller's salary as would be the case earlier in the season.

 

Further, with Miller's contract expiring, the team wouldn't be taking on much of an obligation.  If the scenario you suggest with a team having an injured goalie comes up, then the team could acquire Miller then not sign him to an extension.  There would be no financial obligation to the team past the end of the regular season.

 

There are also, as you and others have pointed out, a number of reasons that argue against a Miller deadline trade.

[Stierlitz]

 

[pluralsight]

Gotta feel for Millsy this season, the guy has a 1.79 GAA and a .934V% through 5 games yet his record is 1-4. Most goalies would be at least 4-1 with those stats. This team just can't score. 

[Crabcakes]

Depends on Demko's development but I wouldn't be surprised to see Miller re-sign on a year by year basis for much less money.

 

Despite the difference in stats, I see Miller and Markstrom as equals at this point in the season (15 game mark).  Over time, it's clear to me that Markstrom will be playing a higher % of games.  

 

I think this is a good option if Demko isn't ready.  I have no idea whether Miller would be open to playing another year in the $2-3M range.

[-AJ-]

4 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Depends on Demko's development but I wouldn't be surprised to see Miller re-sign on a year by year basis for much less money.

 

Despite the difference in stats, I see Miller and Markstrom as equals at this point in the season (15 game mark).  Over time, it's clear to me that Markstrom will be playing a higher % of games.  

 

I think this is a good option if Demko isn't ready.  I have no idea whether Miller would be open to playing another year in the $2-3M range.

I would honestly be okay with this, but like you, I'm not sure if Miller would be willing to take that kind of pay cut. 

[coryberg]

On 12/11/2016 at 4:37 PM, ajhockey said:

I would honestly be okay with this, but like you, I'm not sure if Miller would be willing to take that kind of pay cut. 

As it sits right now he has cooled off from his hot start (as has markstrom).

His stat line doesn't scream big money.

 

36 years old

2 wins

7 losses 

2.92 GAA

.899sv%

 

I'm hoping he heats up again and picks those numbers up for trade value sake. I would consider bringing him back for 1 more year at 3 mil to backup Marky though.

[Mackcanuck]

Our next 3 games this week are at home(COL, ARZ, CGY) and then finish on the road Saturday the next night in CGY on a back to back.

Why do I get the feeling that Miller will take the next 3 starts at home against COL, ARZ and CGY and give Marky the 2nd game  (CGY) on the road of the back to back.

Miller will start tonight for sure

Edited January 2, 2017 by Mackcanuck

[Mackcanuck]

On 1/2/2017 at 6:46 AM, Mackcanuck said:

Our next 3 games this week are at home(COL, ARZ, CGY) and then finish on the road Saturday the next night in CGY on a back to back.

Why do I get the feeling that Miller will take the next 3 starts at home against COL, ARZ and CGY and give Marky the 2nd game  (CGY) on the road of the back to back.

Miller will start tonight for sure

 

Well, Miller is starting again tonight against ARZ, It will be interesting if he also takes the next game at home Fri and leave Marky Sat. Night in CGY.

I think it is now pretty evident that Miller is making the decisions and not Willie!