Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Seems like most people feel this way.

 

I’m not gonna to sit here and argue that Hutton has actually played really well. He’s had some struggles. But he’s hardly unique in that area.

 

And I can’t help but notice that whenever I dig into his stats, I find he’s usually in the top third of our D regulars in nearly every category. Whether shot shares, scoring chances, goals for/against, zone exits, or whatever stat you like, there’s always around 5 of our top-8 regulars on D who are producing worse results for this team than Hutton.

 

Apparently he’s had off ice issues and questionable fitness/commitment, and I support Green in giving Hutton some tough love and challenging him to become a better pro.

 

But as far as the actual team results with/without Hutton in the lineup, nearly every measure I look at says this team is better off when Hutton plays.

 

In fact, if we were to move a couple veteran Ds out, a player like Ben Hutton would be exactly the kind of value acquisition I’d be looking to bring in.

 

Trading him away, especially at this point in time, when his value has been tanked by scratches/deployment, seems like a step in the wrong direction.

 

Unless he’s just never going to get back into the good graces of the staff. In that case, you move him and salvage what you can from as assets perspective.

 

But for me, it really looks like one of the easiest moves we could make to improve the overall performance of this team would be to just play Hutton (and not play some of the guys who’ve been objectively worse by a host of statistical measures). 

 

Hopefully he gets the chance.

I'd be really interested in your evaluation of the D if you would share it?  By PM or posted here...

 

Thanks if you can!

 

7 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think it has to do with green’s comments about Pouliot’s lack of commitment to fitness and off ice professionalism.  Kind of the same as Hutton.  Mistakes go up when tired.  

I think guys who are not fit can become a lot better if they get fit.  It’s a good thing, maybe?

I did not catch a Greenism directed at Pouliot's conditioning.  (I have with Jake, our backup goalie, etc.)

 

What was said when?

[rekker]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I'd be really interested in your evaluation of the D if you would share it?  By PM or posted here...

 

Thanks if you can!

 

I did not catch a Greenism directed at Pouliot's conditioning.  (I have with Jake, our backup goalie, etc.)

 

What was said when?

I believe it was at the same time it was directed at Hutton. And both were scratched that night.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I'd be really interested in your evaluation of the D if you would share it?  By PM or posted here...

 

Thanks if you can!

 

I did not catch a Greenism directed at Pouliot's conditioning.  (I have with Jake, our backup goalie, etc.)

 

What was said when?

I think TG made comment after the trade and Pouliot got here.  

[Fanuck]

Just now, Alflives said:

I think TG made comment after the trade and Pouliot got here.  

To my knowledge those comments about DP were directed at the circimstances that saw him see very little meaningful game action prior to joining us and that he simply needed to get into mid-season conditioning. Nothing more than that.

[rekker]

Just now, Fanuck said:

To my knowledge those comments about DP were directed at the circimstances that saw him see very little meaningful game action prior to joining us and that he simply needed to get into mid-season conditioning. Nothing more than that.

Just an observation and purely speculative. DP doesn't look like the most chiseled athlete. But obviously just a guess on my part. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I'd be really interested in your evaluation of the D if you would share it?  By PM or posted here...

 

Thanks if you can!

I’ll try to reply a little later. For the time being, could you just give me a bit more of a brief on what you’re looking for? Like is it more about evaluating the D order in terms of how they rank against each other? Or profiling each D by player type? Or coming up with a strategy team-wise as to who to keep and who should get moved? Or some combination of these? Or something completely different?

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I’ll try to reply a little later. For the time being, could you just give me a bit more of a brief on what you’re looking for? Like is it more about evaluating the D order in terms of how they rank against each other? Or profiling each D by player type? Or coming up with a strategy team-wise as to who to keep and who should get moved? Or some combination of these? Or something completely different?

Yes, exactly.

 

You were right, a fair few posters are down on Hutton.  But you mentioned metrics placing him possibly top 3 in effectiveness among the guys we have.

 

Just a summary that speaks to where each of our D is at. Maybe any highlight or lowlight criteria that ID each?

 

Two thumbs up Sid!

[rekker]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Yes, exactly.

 

You were right, a fair few posters are down on Hutton.  But you mentioned metrics placing him possibly top 3 in effectiveness among the guys we have.

 

Just a summary that speaks to where each of our D is at. Maybe any highlight or lowlight criteria that ID each?

 

Two thumbs up Sid!

You sure you ready for that. Better pour yourself one first. Lol. 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

You sure you ready for that. Better pour yourself one first. Lol. 

  Good idea!

 

Here are some of my own eyes observations;

 

> I am a Stecher fan!  I like his compete level above both Pouliot & Hutton.  

> I compare the three, should add MDZ but I kinda ignore him as he is here for this yr & next, because they are the guys who should haul & handle the puck?

> Similarly they should, like Tanev, get to the puck and get it out...

> I see Stecher win pucks, get to pucks and notably

> I see Stecher turn the corner, put on a burst of speed and carry the puck up ice. Also turn over the puck doing so, but not egregiously. I suspect the highest TO%? And zone exits carrying the puck as a positive. I suspect, but am not sure that there should be better shot suppression.

 

> I believe Hutton & Pouliot both protect and play with the puck a lot. In the defensive, neutral & offensive zone. A bit more creative.

> In the defensive zone; a move or stride to break free when they get the puck. And then a pass or chip out is much more common than lugging it out. 

> Which works for them. Would work better if we had streaking forwards to bust breakout passes on?

> And makes them, particularly Pouliot, more effective in the O'zone. Pouliot because he gets his shot in better. 

 

But I'll spare more (especially in case I am wrong). And emphasize I have not studied any, should really, any advanced stats or metrics. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Canuck Surfer

[TGT68]

9 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm not sure why people are so down on Pouliot.......he makes young guy mistakes, but if he learns from them, he has the potential to be an impact player.

I wasn't being down on Pouliot in my Juolevi post.  It was 'sometimes Pouliot' because he also plays the right side and I was talking about the left side.  

[stawns]

52 minutes ago, TGT68 said:

I wasn't being down on Pouliot in my Juolevi post.  It was 'sometimes Pouliot' because he also plays the right side and I was talking about the left side.  

sorry, didn't mean you, specifically.  I just quoted you because you mentioned Pouliot

Edited March 29, 2018 by stawns

[Phat Fingers]

7 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Seems like most people feel this way.

 

I’m not gonna to sit here and argue that Hutton has actually played really well. He’s had some struggles. But he’s hardly unique in that area.

 

And I can’t help but notice that whenever I dig into his stats, I find he’s usually in the top third of our D regulars in nearly every category. Whether shot shares, scoring chances, goals for/against, zone exits, or whatever stat you like, there’s always around 5 of our top-8 regulars on D who are producing worse results for this team than Hutton.

 

Apparently he’s had off ice issues and questionable fitness/commitment, and I support Green in giving Hutton some tough love and challenging him to become a better pro.

 

But as far as the actual team results with/without Hutton in the lineup, nearly every measure I look at says this team is better off when Hutton plays.

 

In fact, if we were to move a couple veteran Ds out, a player like Ben Hutton would be exactly the kind of value acquisition I’d be looking to bring in.

 

Trading him away, especially at this point in time, when his value has been tanked by scratches/deployment, seems like a step in the wrong direction.

 

Unless he’s just never going to get back into the good graces of the staff. In that case, you move him and salvage what you can from as assets perspective.

 

But for me, it really looks like one of the easiest moves we could make to improve the overall performance of this team would be to just play Hutton (and not play some of the guys who’ve been objectively worse by a host of statistical measures). 

 

Hopefully he gets the chance.

Great insightful post. 

 

In your oppinion, does Hutton have it in him to beat out stiffer comp on the left side?  

 

Is he worth his salary?  

 

Would he be better in a change of scene swap?  

 

Hutton has played more like a place holder in the past two years imo. To me he still has trade value and would be welcome on the nucks roster, if he can get his groove back. 

 

 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

11 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Great insightful post. 

 

In your oppinion, does Hutton have it in him to beat out stiffer comp on the left side?  

 

Is he worth his salary?  

 

Would he be better in a change of scene swap?  

 

Hutton has played more like a place holder in the past two years imo. To me he still has trade value and would be welcome on the nucks roster, if he can get his groove back. 

 

 

Cheers. 

 

To answer your questions: yes, yes, and maybe.

 

I think Hutton is actually our 2nd best LHD after Edler. So even with an incoming Juolevi, I think he should have a place on this team. If the left side is too crowded, my first choice is to move MDZ.

 

Yes, he’s worth his salary. Although not if he’s going to be scratched for multiple games and viewed as the 4th LHD option on our depth chart. It’s my hope that the treatment this season was message sending regarding preparation and pro habits. I support our coaches in anything they do for these purposes. But I hope that they are choosing “short term pain for long term gain” and pushing Hutton because they ultimately believe in him.

 

Would he be better off somewhere else? Possibly. It depends on what happens moving forward. If he and Green can’t get in the same page, then yes. But I’d like to believe that Hutton has what it takes to learn from this experience. And Green will reward him for the effort. We’ve seen this with Greener and Jake. Virtanen is a better player today because Green called the kid out on his BS, made him work, and is now rewarding Jake for putting in the effort and learning to be a true pro. I see no reason Hutton can’t do the same.

[Bure_Pavel]

13 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Cheers. 

 

To answer your questions: yes, yes, and maybe.

 

I think Hutton is actually our 2nd best LHD after Edler. So even with an incoming Juolevi, I think he should have a place on this team. If the left side is too crowded, my first choice is to move MDZ.

 

Yes, he’s worth his salary. Although not if he’s going to be scratched for multiple games and viewed as the 4th LHD option on our depth chart. It’s my hope that the treatment this season was message sending regarding preparation and pro habits. I support our coaches in anything they do for these purposes. But I hope that they are choosing “short term pain for long term gain” and pushing Hutton because they ultimately believe in him.

 

Would he be better off somewhere else? Possibly. It depends on what happens moving forward. If he and Green can’t get in the same page, then yes. But I’d like to believe that Hutton has what it takes to learn from this experience. And Green will reward him for the effort. We’ve seen this with Greener and Jake. Virtanen is a better player today because Green called the kid out on his BS, made him work, and is now rewarding Jake for putting in the effort and learning to be a true pro. I see no reason Hutton can’t do the same.

Everyone is entitled to they opinion, but I dont think Hutton is our 2nd best LHD. His play over the last 1.5 years has turned be from being a fan to wanting him off the ice. His shot has looked horrible (shin pads going the other way every time or bad angle weak wrist shot), poor defending and bad turnovers consistently, personally i prefer Poulliot and MDZ over him at least they can provide some offense from the back end. I dont think it is worth trading him at this point, might as well hold on to him to see if he can rebound. I dont see him as part of the future anymore.  

[aGENT]

14 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Cheers. 

 

To answer your questions: yes, yes, and maybe.

 

I think Hutton is actually our 2nd best LHD after Edler. So even with an incoming Juolevi, I think he should have a place on this team. If the left side is too crowded, my first choice is to move MDZ.

 

Yes, he’s worth his salary. Although not if he’s going to be scratched for multiple games and viewed as the 4th LHD option on our depth chart. It’s my hope that the treatment this season was message sending regarding preparation and pro habits. I support our coaches in anything they do for these purposes. But I hope that they are choosing “short term pain for long term gain” and pushing Hutton because they ultimately believe in him.

 

Would he be better off somewhere else? Possibly. It depends on what happens moving forward. If he and Green can’t get in the same page, then yes. But I’d like to believe that Hutton has what it takes to learn from this experience. And Green will reward him for the effort. We’ve seen this with Greener and Jake. Virtanen is a better player today because Green called the kid out on his BS, made him work, and is now rewarding Jake for putting in the effort and learning to be a true pro. I see no reason Hutton can’t do the same.

I would tend to agree he's currently our 2nd best LD. And I'd also agree that if given the choice, I'd move MDZ this summer to make the space required (despite MDZ seemingly being a great 'room' guy).

 

Though some of that may depend on whether they extend Edler after July 1. Somehow I doubt they want to move forward after next year with Hutton, Juolevi, Pouliot as our (very young) left D depth. They're going to want some sort of vet there the next couple years at least IMO. And by then McEneny, Brisebois etc will likely be knocking on the door as well and Tryamkin possibly (likely, IMO) returning.

 

To me, that equates to only one of Hutton/Pouliot surviving the next couple years IMO. 

 

 

[RetroCanuck]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I would tend to agree he's currently our 2nd best LD. And I'd also agree that if given the choice, I'd move MDZ this summer to make the space required (despite MDZ seemingly being a great 'room' guy).

 

Though some of that may depend on whether they extend Edler after July 1. Somehow I doubt they want to move forward after next year with Hutton, Juolevi, Pouliot as our (very young) left D depth. They're going to want some sort of vet there the next couple years at least IMO. And by then McEneny, Brisebois etc will likely be knocking on the door as well and Tryamkin possibly (likely, IMO) returning.

 

To me, that equates to only one of Hutton/Pouliot surviving the next couple years IMO. 

 

 

My guess is Juolevi at least starts in Utica considering reports on him from Salo. Next year we have Edler, DelZotto, Pouliot, Hutton in a way guaranteed for the NHL. After that we have Sautner and McEneny who n my mind will be fighting very hard for spots next year. My guess is we trade one, or both of, Del Zotto and Hutton this offseason making room for McEneny who I think will make the team next year.

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

My guess is Juolevi at least starts in Utica considering reports on him from Salo. Next year we have Edler, DelZotto, Pouliot, Hutton in a way guaranteed for the NHL. After that we have Sautner and McEneny who n my mind will be fighting very hard for spots next year. My guess is we trade one, or both of, Del Zotto and Hutton this offseason making room for McEneny who I think will make the team next year.

I think it's almost for sure he spends all of next season and possibly even a second in Utica.  He's 19, not 22.  I think people forget that sometimes

[Bure_Pavel]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think it's almost for sure he spends all of next season and possibly even a second in Utica.  He's 19, not 22.  I think people forget that sometimes

Im guessing half a season in the AHL and half in NHL (maybe after trade deadline) if Hutton is who he needs to beat out for a spot. Unless we sign another top 4 LHD free agent.  

 

My guess of the Left D depth chart to end the year next year:

Edler

Poulliot

Juolevi

McEneny

Edited March 29, 2018 by Bure_Pavel

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Olli and TPS heading into the final minutes of game 6 today. Win and they advance. TPS just scored to break the scoreless tie with under five minutes remaining.

 

EDIT: with Tallinder out, Juolevi-Eronen have drawn in as the first pairing for today’s game

Edited March 29, 2018 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Olli and TPS heading into the final minutes of game 6 today. Win and they advance. TPS just scored to break the scoreless tie with under five minutes remaining.

 

EDIT: with Tallinder out, Juolevi-Eronen have drawn in as the first pairing for today’s game

cheers for all the updates