Popular Post aGENT Posted July 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, GoCanucks16 said: I'm saying the amount of development they've gone through in their respective leagues isn't much different. Just that Juolevi skates against better competition doesn't mean he's developing faster. Development isn't linear. Rathbone's skating is phenomenal, and we don't need to see both players on the same ice surface to know he's better than Juolevi at it. Sure. But he's also smaller, which isn't surprising. Smaller players tend to have quicker acceleration and better agility (less mass to get moving or change direction largely). It's a bit apples and oranges really. OJ's skating is actually above average himself. Especially for a larger guy. Smooth, long stride and good top end speed. He's been a bit hampered on his lateral skating with the back/knee/hip issues but even that seems to improved the last year (and he looks like he's continuing to strengthen that aspect). And like all bigger guys, his first three steps can always use more power/quickness, which again, comes with time and is apples/oranges to a guy with a completely different physique. I'd also say that while he could also still stand to improve it, particularly at the NHL level, OJ's defensive game is also FAR more developed than Rathbone's. And that's likely the biggest thing that blows your 'more NHL ready' argument out of the water. NHL coaches don't play kids they can't trust. Doesn't matter how good their skating or offense are. OJ is far closer to 'NHL ready' in that regard. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 The difference between the two. Juolevi is a Benning first round pick and Rathbone is a 4th round Brackett pick, Politics with a capital P. I don't think skill will over come envy or until it's too painfully obvious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aGENT Posted July 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fred65 said: The difference between the two. Juolevi is a Benning first round pick and Rathbone is a 4th round Brackett pick, Politics with a capital P. I don't think skill will over come envy or until it's too painfully obvious. Well that's an assinine comment based on very little in the way of facts. Edited July 31, 2020 by aGENT 5 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 14 hours ago, Dazzle said: So you're basically stretching a narrative by saying NCAA = AHL. Never mind the fact that AHL has some long time former NHL players playing there. Never mind that AHL players in general have more experience than NCAA players. You're saying that Juolevi's experience is basically equal to Rathbone. So here's the thing. The skating thing you're saying is a joke. No one else who is credible to comment on this has said Rathbone's skating is better nor worse than Juolevi's. I highly doubt you saw enough of both players skate to really make that accurate of a comparison. This is not taking into account the difference in level of competition. But to finally clear up the reality of competition - here's what other posters said about NCAA vs AHL:.tl;dr - every single poster believes AHL > NCAA. Go through both sites (HF/Reddit). Your opinion is just wrong. Source 1 HF Boards https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/ncaa-vs-ahl.2441209/ For what it's worth, UNB is an elite CIS team and has been for a while. You can't really draw conclusions about the level of competition in CIS/USports based on their performance. Personally I think even a weak AHL team would chew through virtually every NCAA team. I just can't see NCAA defenses being able to handle even the worst AHL team's top players. I wish we had more inter-league games to get some numbers to support/refute these types of questions. NCAA could win a one-off, but AHL would probably win nine out of ten 7 game series. ^This is pretty spot on. Top NCAA teams would probably have a couple lines that would be fine against a bad AHL team. But in terms of depth I dont see many NCAA standing much of a chance in the long run All in all though the AHL is far higher quality of play than the CIS. For example, the following players graduated from UNB to pro hockey last year: -----------------------------------------Source 2 Reddit level 1 ProcrastinatorAJC CHI - NHL 104 points · 2 years ago AHL is probably the hardest out of all of those. AHL (by a country mile) NCAA WHL QMJHL This seems mostly correct, although I’d argue that the tougher conferences in the NCAA (like the WHCA, for example) are closer to the AHL than these HFBoards and Reddit posters suggest. The AHL is still the better league, but not “by a country mile.” I’d say NCAA as a whole is somewhere between the WHL and the AHL, with the weaker conferences being pretty close to junior, and the better conferences being just shy of the AHL, at least when it comes to valuing points and translating player performance to the NHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: This seems mostly correct, although I’d argue that the tougher conferences in the NCAA (like the WHCA, for example) are closer to the AHL than these HFBoards and Reddit posters suggest. The AHL is still the better league, but not “by a country mile.” I’d say NCAA as a whole is somewhere between the WHL and the AHL, with the weaker conferences being pretty close to junior, and the better conferences being just shy of the AHL, at least when it comes to valuing points and translating player performance to the NHL. The CHL seems to be the one in decline for graduates going on to the NHL while the NCAA players continue to make up a larger percentage of NHL rosters. Thirty percent of the NHL (283 players this season) went to college for at least one season, and 71 percent of that group played at least three seasons of college hockey before turning pro.Mar 21, 2018 Jun 22, 2019 - The United States has gained the most ground. Last year, 26.5 percent of the league's players — or 286 — were Americans. That was up from 16 percent in 2003-4. The surge in the number of top-tier American players is partly attributable to the expansion of hockey into untraditional, warm-weather markets. Meanwhile the number of CHL players drafted over the past 4 drafts has fallen by 12.7%. https://stories.featurd.io/2019/06/23/number-of-nhl-draftees-from-chl-in-steady-decline/ Not sure what any of this means in terms of ranking the various leagues but I did find these numbers interesting. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 4 hours ago, aGENT said: Well that's an assinine comment based on very little in the way of facts. Tongue in cheek. I some times think it's funny how posters get over technical in assessing ( with little in the way of history, knowlege or facts) a player when some times just like any other business it can be a case of favourites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckCup2022 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 19 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: Yup. 6'3 and just over/under 200 is nothing to scoff at... That is average size for an NHLer. The average modern NHL player is 6-foot-1 and 199.3 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Tongue in cheek. I some times think it's funny how posters get over technical in assessing ( with little in the way of history, knowlege or facts) a player when some times just like any other business it can be a case of favourites 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CanuckCup2022 said: That is average size for an NHLer. The average modern NHL player is 6-foot-1 and 199.3 pounds. 6'1 and 6'3 are not the same. OJ will play at 215 by the time he is in his prime. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckCup2022 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, BCNate said: 6'1 and 6'3 are not the same. OJ will play at 215 by the time he is in his prime. People keep saying Juolevi is big or he has size. No he doesn't. He is average. Will he play at a heavier weight? Maybe...maybe not. He is already 22 years old. He might be at his maximum weight. You don't know. You are just assuming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, CanuckCup2022 said: People keep saying Juolevi is big or he has size. No he doesn't. He is average. Will he play at a heavier weight? Maybe...maybe not. He is already 22 years old. He might be at his maximum weight. You don't know. You are just assuming. Oh boo hoo... The point is that he has the size to handle the rigours of the league. 6'3 and under/over 200. There's nothing to get nitpick-y about here... He "has size", as you like to put it. That's good enough, and beyond that, it doesn't matter as much as you're making it out to be. Also, he's only 22, so he's still a few years away from having his "man muscle". Size aside, THIS is what matters: Edited July 31, 2020 by Herberts Vasiljevs 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BCNate Posted July 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CanuckCup2022 said: People keep saying Juolevi is big or he has size. No he doesn't. He is average. Will he play at a heavier weight? Maybe...maybe not. He is already 22 years old. He might be at his maximum weight. You don't know. You are just assuming. 6'1 is average. 6'3 is bigger. It's math, not an opinion. Of nearly 500 D under NHL contract, only 80 are 6'4 or more. 6'3 is big for an NHL defenseman. 2 1 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, BCNate said: 6'1 is average. 6'3 is bigger. It's math, not an opinion. Of nearly 500 D under NHL contract, only 80 are 6'4 or more. 6'3 is big for an NHL defenseman. this isn't the first time I've read people saying Juolevi is average size and I even saw a description of his as "small defender".... why is this a thing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CanuckCup2022 said: That is average size for an NHLer. The average modern NHL player is 6-foot-1 and 199.3 pounds. And that includes about 600 goalies that are at least 6'5".................lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: this isn't the first time I've read people saying Juolevi is average size and I even saw a description of his as "small defender".... why is this a thing? Joulevi is 6'3 200. Once he gets with NHL trainers and on an NHL diet he will more than liklely play at 215+. Almost all NHl players put on muscle mass once they become regulars. He is certainly not small, he will end up very similar to Edler's size. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 42 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said: Oh boo hoo... The point is that he has the size to handle the rigours of the league. 6'3 and under/over 200. There's nothing to get nitpick-y about here... He "has size", as you like to put it. That's good enough, and beyond that, it doesn't matter as much as you're making it out to be. Also, he's only 22, so he's still a few years away from having his "man muscle". Size aside, THIS is what matters: Unfortunately that clip omits that stretch pass in both of it's replays. We saw a glimpse of it in the exhibition game when he threw a nice breakout stretch pass I believe it was to Roussel racing down the wing. EP is going to enjoy these passes while going full stride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CanuckCup2022 said: That is average size for an NHLer. The average modern NHL player is 6-foot-1 and 199.3 pounds. Well, technically, at 6'-3", he's got 2" over 'average' and at only 22 is bound to put another good 15+/- lbs of muscle on his frame in to his prime. But sure, he's not Chara or Byfuglien. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: You got me here. I have no idea who this dude is or what he does, I assume he's not a hockey player 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 6 hours ago, aGENT said: Well that's an assinine comment based on very little in the way of facts. At the very least you guys are entertaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 So if olli at 6 foot 3 is average what does that make our d men who are around 5 foot 10? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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