Googlie Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 2 hours ago, theo5789 said: Slegr had a bomb of a shot as well, but none of his teammates that play in front of the net wanted him to shoot more. Duck and cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Googlie said: Duck and cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 (edited) On August 12, 2020 at 9:53 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said: There's no question that benning's drafting has been good, but there's two things that need context around it. 1) Quality matters. The goal of drafting is to make the team better so that we can win a cup. That's great he drafted Tryamkin, Forsling, McCann, but all we have left to show for it is Pearson. Also take into consideration, since benning has started he has had 11 of his picks play an NHL game. Oilers in that same time frame have had 10. Leafs have 12, Columbus and bruins each have 16, Further more, Gillis had 14 players play in the NHL that he had drafted in his 6 years, which comes to an average of 2.33 player per draft. (really 2010 was a write off as our first pick wasn't until 114th. so he did that in 5 years'ish). He did that while only having 7 top 50 picks. 2) You can't really credit players not in the NHL as good picks yet. Remember when everyone thought cassels was going to be a shutdown NHLers because he played well against mcDavid. Listing a bunch of unproven draft picks doesn't really bring to the table, every team has promising players in their system. Hi Mike Gillis...So now what are we talking about now 14 players what are you smoking?????????? Come on really? Lebate 13 games, Sauve 8 games, Grenier 13 games they got called up AHL player not NHL regular players... Only players that are NHL players were, Hodgson, Schroeder, Connauton, Gaunce, Hutton, Horvat = 6 NHL players Here are the facts Gillis Drafting 1st year 2008 - Hodgson 328 games Sauve -- 8 games-----AHL player 2009 Schroeder 165 games Connauton 314 2010 Zero 2011 Jansen - 31games - AHLguy Grenier - 9 games -- AHL guy Lebate - 13 games -- AHL guy Corrado - 76 games 2012 Gaunce 118 games Hutton 341 games 2013 Horvat... Benning 2014 --- 5 NHL players 1.Virtanen 279 games -- 2.McCann 310 games --3. Demko # 2 NHL goalie 4. Tryamkin # 5 D man - 79 games 5. Forsling 122 games Edited August 15, 2020 by wildcam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 3:40 PM, theo5789 said: Slegr had a bomb of a shot as well, but none of his teammates that play in front of the net wanted him to shoot more. LOL Jiri Slegr. He was going top corner or his teamates helmets. He was like that kid at Mighty Ducks Folton, the one with the slapshot. 1 out of 5 shots hit the net, but in Slegrs case its more one of 10. Thing of beauty though when he gets it past the goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 10 hours ago, wildcam said: Hi Mike Gillis...So now what are we talking about now 14 players what are you smoking?????????? you said. “Gms should expect 3 players to play in the NHL every draft year”. Gillis was just shy of that average while having only picked twice above top the 22nd over position. One of those two picks is Horvat, you know the captain and leader of this team and he’s treated as an after thought because he doesn’t fit your narrative. Quote Come on really? Lebate 13 games, Sauve 8 games, Grenier 13 games they got called up AHL player not NHL regular players... You areright they are not NHL players. But if you want to remain consistent neither are brisebois, forsling, dipietro and tryamkin, the players who you seem to list as drafting successes (none of which who are NHL players). and curious as to how tryamkin was a more valuable/better pick than corrado. Or forsling was more valuable/better than Schroeder. i’m not denying that JB hasn’t made good picks. I’m just pointing out the flawed logic you are using to justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I believe the goal 2-3 players who play 200+ games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 10 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: you said. “Gms should expect 3 players to play in the NHL every draft year”. Gillis was just shy of that average while having only picked twice above top the 22nd over position. One of those two picks is Horvat, you know the captain and leader of this team and he’s treated as an after thought because he doesn’t fit your narrative. You areright they are not NHL players. But if you want to remain consistent neither are brisebois, forsling, dipietro and tryamkin, the players who you seem to list as drafting successes (none of which who are NHL players). and curious as to how tryamkin was a more valuable/better pick than corrado. Or forsling was more valuable/better than Schroeder. i’m not denying that JB hasn’t made good picks. I’m just pointing out the flawed logic you are using to justify it. OMG,, The previous managers pick are all over 25 years old so we know what kind of pro hockey players they are 2013 draft player will be 25 now.. 2014 was Bennings 1st year drafting, Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling is a NHL play left to play in Russia? Forsling NHL Hawks, = 5 NHL These guys are NHL players?? Not comparing players? Just saying 5 players from a draft year?? 2014 draft for Canucks, Vey good draft year.. Never did I say i was comparing players ? Just saying a good draft year is 2-3 players 2015 Boeser 23 NHL player -- Briesbois 23 AHL ( maybe NHL) Gaudette 23 NHL player - 2 player NHL-- (maybe Briesbois )= 2 NHL now 2015 2016 - Juolevi 22 - feel he will be NHL player -- Lockwood 22 ?? --- Still early NO NHL player at this time.. 2017 - Pettersson 21 NHL - Lind 21 ? Gadjovich 21 ? Dipietro 21 - Rathbone 21 -----Still so young 2018 Hughes NHL 20 - Woo 20 - Madden 20 --- 2019 Podkolzin 19 -- Hoglander 19 Not comparing players just saying if you over 25 you should of played 100 games by now exception Tryamkin he left Vancouver his choice, you do know he is a NHL D man right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, wildcam said: OMG,, The previous managers pick are all over 25 years old so we know what kind of pro hockey players they are 2013 draft player will be 25 now.. Hope and potential mean nothing. which is the point. Listing players who you think will be good. NHLers doesn’t hold any water. Again. Cassels was supposed to be a shutdown #3 center after his playoffs remember in the chl 2 hours ago, wildcam said: 2014 was Bennings 1st year drafting, Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling is a NHL play left to play in Russia? tryamkin made (demanded) playing on a bottom two team one season and then yes left to play in Russia, as it was part of his clause for not getting NHL ice time. Last time I checked KHL is not the NHL. Tryamkin is not an NHL player. 2 hours ago, wildcam said: Forsling NHL Hawks, = 5 NHL These guys are NHL players?? forsling hasn’t played a single game in the NHL this year. He was demoted to the AHL at the midway point last season and never got called back up. To you that is the definition of a NHL player??? Very strange, my friend and ex teammate happens to the be head coach of the Blackhawks and he doesn’t think he’s consistent enough to be considered an NHL player but you seem to think so. You must know better. 2 hours ago, wildcam said: Not comparing players? Just saying 5 players from a draft year?? 2014 draft for Canucks, Vey good draft year.. 5 players, two of them I just pointed out that they aren’t NHL players and the other three were all top 40 picks. 3 top 40 picks in one draft year is half the number Gillis selected in his 6 seasons. 2 hours ago, wildcam said: Never did I say i was comparing players ? Just saying a good draft year is 2-3 players The number of players playing a few games in the NHL doesn’t define a good draft year. I’d take 2013 over 2014 any day of the week. 2 hours ago, wildcam said: 2015 Boeser 23 NHL player -- Briesbois 23 AHL ( maybe NHL) Gaudette 23 NHL player - 2 player NHL-- (maybe Briesbois )= 2 NHL now 2015 2016 - Juolevi 22 - feel he will be NHL player -- Lockwood 22 ?? --- Still early NO NHL player at this time.. 2017 - Pettersson 21 NHL - Lind 21 ? Gadjovich 21 ? Dipietro 21 - Rathbone 21 -----Still so young 2018 Hughes NHL 20 - Woo 20 - Madden 20 --- 2019 Podkolzin 19 -- Hoglander 19 again just because you list players you think have potential doesn’t make the point valid. That’s the flaw in your logic. Literally every team has a pool of prospects comparable to he players you listed. It wasn’t that long ago people were saying the same think about shinkaruk 2 hours ago, wildcam said: Not comparing players just saying if you over 25 you should of played 100 games by now exception Tryamkin he left Vancouver his choice, you do know he is a NHL D man right?? nope hes not. That factually false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Hope and potential mean nothing. which is the point. Listing players who you think will be good. NHLers doesn’t hold any water. Again. Cassels was supposed to be a shutdown #3 center after his playoffs remember in the chl tryamkin made (demanded) playing on a bottom two team one season and then yes left to play in Russia, as it was part of his clause for not getting NHL ice time. Last time I checked KHL is not the NHL. Tryamkin is not an NHL player. forsling hasn’t played a single game in the NHL this year. He was demoted to the AHL at the midway point last season and never got called back up. To you that is the definition of a NHL player??? Very strange, my friend and ex teammate happens to the be head coach of the Blackhawks and he doesn’t think he’s consistent enough to be considered an NHL player but you seem to think so. You must know better. 5 players, two of them I just pointed out that they aren’t NHL players and the other three were all top 40 picks. 3 top 40 picks in one draft year is half the number Gillis selected in his 6 seasons. The number of players playing a few games in the NHL doesn’t define a good draft year. I’d take 2013 over 2014 any day of the week. again just because you list players you think have potential doesn’t make the point valid. That’s the flaw in your logic. Literally every team has a pool of prospects comparable to he players you listed. It wasn’t that long ago people were saying the same think about shinkaruk nope hes not. That factually false. I understand what you're trying to say but you can't argue potential means nothing without acknowledging that potential also means something. Trajectory is the key point and a player like Cassels had his trajectory stagnate immediately after the jump to pro. Many of our prospects are on positive trajectory and a lot of our young players have not reached their ceiling. From what I remember hearing, having a mid to late pick play 100 NHL games is a successful pick. Tryamkin left because of Willie, not because he wasn't good enough for the NHL. He was a bright spot for us during those dim times and he'd still be in the NHL if he stayed. Edited August 16, 2020 by MrCanuck94 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 And here I thought there would be some news on Juolevi. Silly me! 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, higgyfan said: And here I thought there would be some news on Juolevi. Silly me! we were both duped! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 6 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: I understand what you're trying to say but you can't argue potential means nothing without acknowledging that potential also means something. Trajectory is the key point and a player like Cassels had his trajectory stagnate immediately after the jump to pro. Many of our prospects are on positive trajectory and a lot of our young players have not reached their ceiling. How do you define a positive trajectory? Shinkaruk was .86p/gp in his second AHL season as a 20 year old. Gaunce was .82p/gp in in his second AHL season as a 21 year old. Subban was .56p/gp in in his first AHL season as a 20 year old. As a 24 year old Rodin won the SHL MVP It wasn't like some of those players didn't have positive trajectory. Compare that the unproven prospects that keep getting listed. Kole lind was .72p/gp in his second AHL season as a 20 year old. Jasek was .48p/gp in his second AHL season as a 22 year old. Gadjovich was .42p/gp in his second AHL season as a 21 year old Palmu only had 1 point in 12 AHL games as a 21 year old That doesn't mean they can't turn out one day, but it's really to explain the shiny new toy hype that gets placed on these guys. Every new draft pick we get, people think he will become the next great thing 6 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: From what I remember hearing, having a mid to late pick play 100 NHL games is a successful pick. The goal is to win the cup, a successful pick is one that becomes an asset to help you achieve that, which is why 2013 was a more successful drat year than 2014. 6 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: Tryamkin left because of Willie, not because he wasn't good enough for the NHL. He was a bright spot for us during those dim times and he'd still be in the NHL if he stayed. Tryamkin left because he didn't think he got enough ice time and it was part of his clause that he could bail if that were the case. That's great he was a bright spot but we were the second worst team in the league, it doesn't take much to be hopeful. You can blame Willy but's he's had the chance to come back and work his way onto a roster without WD and he's still not here. Trymakin is no more an NHLer than Shirokov was. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: How do you define a positive trajectory? Shinkaruk was .86p/gp in his second AHL season as a 20 year old. Gaunce was .82p/gp in in his second AHL season as a 21 year old. Subban was .56p/gp in in his first AHL season as a 20 year old. As a 24 year old Rodin won the SHL MVP It wasn't like some of those players didn't have positive trajectory. Compare that the unproven prospects that keep getting listed. Kole lind was .72p/gp in his second AHL season as a 20 year old. Jasek was .48p/gp in his second AHL season as a 22 year old. Gadjovich was .42p/gp in his second AHL season as a 21 year old Palmu only had 1 point in 12 AHL games as a 21 year old That doesn't mean they can't turn out one day, but it's really to explain the shiny new toy hype that gets placed on these guys. Every new draft pick we get, people think he will become the next great thing The goal is to win the cup, a successful pick is one that becomes an asset to help you achieve that, which is why 2013 was a more successful drat year than 2014. Tryamkin left because he didn't think he got enough ice time and it was part of his clause that he could bail if that were the case. That's great he was a bright spot but we were the second worst team in the league, it doesn't take much to be hopeful. You can blame Willy but's he's had the chance to come back and work his way onto a roster without WD and he's still not here. Trymakin is no more an NHLer than Shirokov was. That's a fair comparison but player tangibles also come into play. Subban wasn't good defensively. Gaunce's speed was average/below average. Shinkaruk was a perimeter player. Rodin had bad injury luck. However, that also applies now. For example, I do not believe Gadjovich will make it due to his poor foot speed even with his improvement. Also, I think it comes down to how much better our drafting and development teams are now. Benning came in and traded Shinkaruk even with his good numbers because he didn't think his skillset could translate to the NHL. Many of our prospects seem to have a translatable skillset so that's a positive. Of course not saying every single prospect is going to make it, but now our current prospects have a better chance of realizing their potential, which gives way to a more hopeful future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckCup2022 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 So, how about that Juolevi guy...right! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, CanuckCup2022 said: So, how about that Juolevi guy...right! 723 pages and the kid’s played one game. This is why I love CDC. Edited August 16, 2020 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckCup2022 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Me_ said: 723 pages and the kid’s played one game. This is why I love CDC. Well, in fairness to the posters, this website solely exists to chat about Vancouver Canucks. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) On 8/16/2020 at 3:16 AM, MrCanuck94 said: I understand what you're trying to say but you can't argue potential means nothing without acknowledging that potential also means something. Trajectory is the key point and a player like Cassels had his trajectory stagnate immediately after the jump to pro. Many of our prospects are on positive trajectory and a lot of our young players have not reached their ceiling. From what I remember hearing, having a mid to late pick play 100 NHL games is a successful pick. Tryamkin left because of Willie, not because he wasn't good enough for the NHL. He was a bright spot for us during those dim times and he'd still be in the NHL if he stayed. Gawd I can't get away from this Tryamkin guy. Edited August 17, 2020 by Gawdzukes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Gawd I can't get away from this Tryamkin guy. You are in the Olly Juolevi thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) On 8/16/2020 at 5:16 AM, MrCanuck94 said: I understand what you're trying to say but you can't argue potential means nothing without acknowledging that potential also means something. Trajectory is the key point and a player like Cassels had his trajectory stagnate immediately after the jump to pro. Many of our prospects are on positive trajectory and a lot of our young players have not reached their ceiling. From what I remember hearing, having a mid to late pick play 100 NHL games is a successful pick. Tryamkin left because of Willie, not because he wasn't good enough for the NHL. He was a bright spot for us during those dim times and he'd still be in the NHL if he stayed. Might be the girl. A Pronger situation. The general stench of weed apparently bother med miss pretty. So the beast took her back home. But imagine Myers AND Tryamkin on the same team. Edited August 17, 2020 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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