Alflives Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: PIcking 5,6,7 guarantees nothing. Scott Cullen did an excellent article on TSN a few years back A "few years back" (15 or so) before the internet, youtube and all the other social media, GM's still would have "holes" in their information, now they can find out what is happening off the ice as well. Look up the 5,6 and 7 picks 2011 to 2017 - only 10 top ten picks are iffy, Benning has two and the only player to not play a single NHL game. Virtanen is one of the iffy one's as well, so over those years Benning has 20% of ALL failures. No other GM comes close. He is getting a huge amount of PP time, 1rst pass elite? Problem with those clips is they are not showing other dmen, he looks slow and out of position quite often. There is absolutely nothing that makes him stand out offensively. I disagree, OJ is a big boy, who is showing the elite skills, and high IQ, that earned him a high draft spot. I wanted Tkapuke, but OJ is looking like a top four NHL D. He will be up here soon enough. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Garth Snow comes to mind: 2011: Ryan Strome 5th overall 2012: Griffin Reinhart 4th overall 2014: Michael Dal Colle 5th overall The same Garth Snow that most fans ridicule as having done such a bad job? And Strome has played over 450 games at .5 pt per game rate so while not up to the standard, not really a bomb. They just shoved him into the league too soon and put too much pressure on him to "be the scoring threat", sound familiar? Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes maybe? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Alflives said: I disagree, OJ is a big boy, who is showing the elite skills, and high IQ, that earned him a high draft spot. I wanted Tkapuke, but OJ is looking like a top four NHL D. He will be up here soon enough. Have you watched those clips? really look around the rest ot what is going on. He gets overtaken within half the rink, players slide past him and then he is behind, defensively he is horrible. His "elite" passing D to D or to a wide open winger waiting for the puck. Passing looks good when not pressured, but then ....what is so special about that. If he was elite he would have more than just PP points. How do you think Hughes would do down there? Maybe just a wee bit better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Just now, ItTakesAnArmy said: Have you watched those clips? really look around the rest ot what is going on. He gets overtaken within half the rink, players slide past him and then he is behind, defensively he is horrible. His "elite" passing D to D or to a wide open winger waiting for the puck. Passing looks good when not pressured, but then ....what is so special about that. If he was elite he would have more than just PP points. How do you think Hughes would do down there? Maybe just a wee bit better? I watched the games. I haven’t seen the clips you speak of. OJ is still maturing physically. The elite skills are apparent in his play. He needs more time to mature. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2020 Playoffs? Edler - Myers Hughes - Tanev Benn - Stecher Juolevi - Tryamkin Fantenberg - Rafferty Really liking the D depth, Big, nasty and skilled 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Aladeen Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 Holy crap I think someone caught Benning in bed with their wife. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Alflives said: I watched the games. I haven’t seen the clips you speak of. OJ is still maturing physically. The elite skills are apparent in his play. He needs more time to mature. Ya I guess so, he is way behind his peers though. Be clear though, it is not his fault he was drafted WAY TOO high, Benning had all the information that most scouts, the one's paid to do the job, were high on Sergachev, he was up coming and Chyrchun had lost a little of his shine but was still highly skilled, it was attitude that soured him. The thing Benning should do, if possible now, is package him to make the team better, maybe with Eriksson or something. He has reached the point where his potential has plateaued and been measured. If lucky he ends up like Gudbranson or Barker. But all this is BECAUSE there was a mistake, a multimillion dollar mistake. One very good player can earn the team untold amount of money or at the very least assets which will help the future. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: 2020 Playoffs? Edler - Myers Hughes - Tanev Benn - Stecher Juolevi - Tryamkin Fantenberg - Rafferty Really liking the D depth, Big, nasty and skilled Hughes with a whole season under his belt will be incredible. Not sure about Tanev as his contract ends this year. He sure looks great with Hughes though. Love to see the return of Tryamkin. Finally a full year of a healthy Juolevi would be awesome. I like the defensive depth too. So much better than years gone by. A few ifs in this lineup, but if guys stay healthy, this is a good d. Along with all the 200ft gamers up front, the team defence looks very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: "You have to get bad before you can be good" Tallon was hired as GM in 2005 - demoted in 2009 He had only three top ten picks, those named, so he was 100% on top ten picks, like most GM's are. Benning has had 5 top 7 picks, all could have been and should have been sure things, especially with all the data out there available to be looked at. Name one other GM over the last 10 years that has blown two top 6 picks. Wait really? Will this qualify instead of a GMs name? As well, don't forget that from 2004 through 2008 the Hakws drafted 3-7-3-1-11 The Canucks have not had the same privilege 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Wait really? Will this qualify instead of a GMs name? As well, don't forget that from 2004 through 2008 the Hakws drafted 3-7-3-1-11 The Canucks have not had the same privilege People take the wrong guy at the wrong time all the time. Aaron Ekblad Taylor Hall - EDM Ryan Murray Valerie Nichushkin Nail Yakupov - EDM Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - EDM Erik Johnson Derrick Pouliot Jesse Pulujarvi -EDM Eric Gudbranson And the list goes on...and on, and on.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho_Path Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Aaron Ekblad and Taylor Hall were both great picks. Not sure why you put them there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Ya I guess so, he is way behind his peers though. Be clear though, it is not his fault he was drafted WAY TOO high, Benning had all the information that most scouts, the one's paid to do the job, were high on Sergachev, he was up coming and Chyrchun had lost a little of his shine but was still highly skilled, it was attitude that soured him. The thing Benning should do, if possible now, is package him to make the team better, maybe with Eriksson or something. He has reached the point where his potential has plateaued and been measured. If lucky he ends up like Gudbranson or Barker. But all this is BECAUSE there was a mistake, a multimillion dollar mistake. One very good player can earn the team untold amount of money or at the very least assets which will help the future. Interesting how you try to make this all look black and white like it was obvious and every 5-7 pick should be a sure hit. Right before the 2016 draft , Bob Mckenzie (who is pretty well respected I would think) surveyed a bunch of scouts and had his finger on the pulse of what what the perceptions were on the eve of the draft. He reported that Juolevi was ranked in a tier below the top 3 picks that year in a group including the likes of Dubois and Tkachuk.: https://www.tsn.ca/matthews-goes-wire-to-wire-as-tsn-s-top-prospect-1.511597 For example, the first layer beyond the Big Three is a four-man grouping that includes three different types of wingers — Tkachuk, who is strong from the top of the circles down; Dubois, who has a strong 200-foot game; and Nylander, whose skill and hockey sense are considered elite — and the one defenceman Juolevi, who's viewed as the best all-around blueliner in the draft. He goes on to state this about the available D men Outside of Juolevi, who had nine of 10 votes as a top-10 prospect, consensus wasn't easy to come by on the defencemen. Five of 10 scouts viewed Sergachev as a top-10 prospect; four of 10 had Bean in their top 10; three of 10 had Chychrun in their top 10; two of 10 had McAvoy in the top 10. So at the end of the day selecting Juolevi ahead of Sergachev was not outlandish nor did it go against any kind of consensus. If we go by what Bob tells us (and sorry ...i take his word a little more seriously than yours) the opposite seems to be true. Im not here to argue that Juolevi was the best choice. my point is it is ridiculous to think that Juolevi was some sort of "out of the blue" reach pick and that if you have a pick in the 5 to 7 range you have to nail it every time. Edited October 16, 2019 by Darius 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: "You have to get bad before you can be good" Tallon was hired as GM in 2005 - demoted in 2009 He had only three top ten picks, those named, so he was 100% on top ten picks, like most GM's are. Benning has had 5 top 7 picks, all could have been and should have been sure things, especially with all the data out there available to be looked at. Name one other GM over the last 10 years that has blown two top 6 picks. which two did Benning miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocket Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, stawns said: which two did Benning miss? Think he means Jake and Joulevi However I think this ignores jim hitting home runs with picks outside the top 10 in Demko and boeser. If Demko and Jake were drafted in switched draft positions and Boeser and Joulevi were drafted in switched draft positions, everyone would agree we got good value for our picks. where JB list value in some places, he gained in others. Add in to that the Petey and Hughes are greatly outperforming their draft positions, I find it hard to believe that Jim Benning has done anything worse than an above average job in drafting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I have watched both Comets games and Olli looked good to me. He is not an overly aggressive guy but he is 6' 3" and over 200 lb. He is not small. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, The_Rocket said: Think he means Jake and Joulevi However I think this ignores jim hitting home runs with picks outside the top 10 in Demko and boeser. If Demko and Jake were drafted in switched draft positions and Boeser and Joulevi were drafted in switched draft positions, everyone would agree we got good value for our picks. where JB list value in some places, he gained in others. Add in to that the Petey and Hughes are greatly outperforming their draft positions, I find it hard to believe that Jim Benning has done anything worse than an above average job in drafting. I'n not willing to write OJ off yet. I am still certain he plays with the Canucks this year, and is a big piece of our future. He is big, smart and can skate. He has had a tough development curve, but seems to be settling in. He has been pretty good sop far in Utica between the ex. games and 2 regular season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, BCNate said: I'n not willing to write OJ off yet. I am still certain he plays with the Canucks this year, and is a big piece of our future. He is big, smart and can skate. He has had a tough development curve, but seems to be settling in. He has been pretty good sop far in Utica between the ex. games and 2 regular season. haha, what? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, The_Rocket said: Think he means Jake and Joulevi However I think this ignores jim hitting home runs with picks outside the top 10 in Demko and boeser. If Demko and Jake were drafted in switched draft positions and Boeser and Joulevi were drafted in switched draft positions, everyone would agree we got good value for our picks. where JB list value in some places, he gained in others. Add in to that the Petey and Hughes are greatly outperforming their draft positions, I find it hard to believe that Jim Benning has done anything worse than an above average job in drafting. I probably wouldn't call a solid two way, full time NHL player a miss, nor would I call a dman who had one of the best 20 year old seasons in Liiga history and who was one of the top rookie scorers in the ahl before injury a miss either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, stawns said: haha, what? I don't get your point. I'm not willing to write OJ off yet, as many people here have. No sure what you are trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gttxc Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, BCNate said: I don't get your point. I'm not willing to write OJ off yet, as many people here have. No sure what you are trying to say. I hate to be contentions but there are very few who have actually written him off. In fact, I can’t think of any at the moment. For some reason, criticizing or expressing disappointment means they are writing off the player. This is obviously bullocks and creates a self perpetuating, magnified by the media, myth of insane and unreasonable fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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