Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Rob_Zepp]

25 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I think the issue with losing players via waivers is that fact that generally speaking, in life, nobody likes to lose things they believe have value for absolutely nothing.  And yes, I know your very next question/comment and it is a valid one - if they have no value then why are people concerned about it?  That is the rub, you know as well as I do Rob that a LOT of people here, despite what they claim to know, have very little actual knowledge about the true value of any particular player - especially lesser known players who haven't been in the league long like the types of players generally put on waivers.  These are the same fans that actually believe every guy we draft in every round has a legit chance of being a regular NHL player - the same guys that were, in all seriousness, penciling guys like Olson, Subban, Cassels (just to name a few) into our regular full-time line-up immediately after their respective drafts.   So that's the problem, people's 'perceived' values of players directly impacts their concerns (or lack thereof in some cases) over losing players via waivers. 

Extremely well said!

[TGT68]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

For the record, my concern isn't waivers  (Hutton would likely pass if he's actually out played given his salary). Benning has worked hard to build up NHL capable D depth. I don't see him risking throwing it away on a 20 year old kid who likely won't be head and shoulders above those guys next fall anyway. Long term, absolutely. 

 

He'll only be 20. Part of the year, developing in Utica will be good for him imo. 

But who would you have to waive to keep Joulevi up?  

 

Edler Guddy

mdz tanev

Hutton Stecher 

 

That is the incumbent starting 6 to me.  

 

then we have

Pouliot

Juolevi.

 

Ok.  then we send down everyone else.  Who isn't waiver eligible that you are worried about?  

 

Beiga, Sautner, McEneny, maybe Weircoch?  

 

Who did I miss?  

 

And if any of those guys want to make the team they better outplay Juolevi, Pouliot and Hutton.  

 

But if we sign much in free agents this can all change.  

Edited June 4, 2018 by TGT68

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Always prefer something but these deals people imagine up are seldom there.  

I can’t speak for the deals people are talking about but this year I look at our roster and can see it’s overfilled. I also see some value in players. Add that JB has openly admitted he’s planning on adding more picks and it’s a pretty easy conclusion to put together. 

 

If throwing in one of our potential waiver players gets us a slightly better pick in say a tanev trade it’s a win win. 

 

 

 

[Psycho_Path]

Well if you've watched this team, you'd know that the Canucks almost always go 10+ defensemen deep during the season. Gotta have plenty depth and a decent enough starting 6 that whoever's there with the depth can hopefully prevent goals from being scored. Benning stated something about that difference from when he was in Boston after his first season here.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, TGT68 said:

But who would you have to waive to keep Joulevi up?  

 

Edler Guddy

mdz tanev

Hutton Stecher 

 

That is the incumbent starting 6 to me.  

 

then we have

Pouliot

Juolevi.

 

Ok.  then we send down everyone else.  Who isn't waiver eligible that you are worried about?  

 

Beiga, Sautner, McEneny, maybe Weircoch?  

 

Who did I miss?  

 

And if any of those guys want to make the team they better outplay Juolevi, Pouliot and Hutton.  

 

But if we sign much in free agents this can all change.  

I think Pouliot far outplsyed Hutton.  If they can tighten up the play in his own end, he could be a serious, serious steal.

[TGT68]

27 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think Pouliot far outplsyed Hutton.  If they can tighten up the play in his own end, he could be a serious, serious steal.

Yeah.  I threw Pouliot at 7th D because he plays both sides though and I thought that made things clearer.  Frankly I thought he outplayed Stecher too.  

[stawns]

25 minutes ago, TGT68 said:

Yeah.  I threw Pouliot at 7th D because he plays both sides though and I thought that made things clearer.  Frankly I thought he outplayed Stecher too.  

In the o-zone, for sure.  But to say he's an adventure in his own end would be putting it mildly.  Still, I'm confident that Green knows exactly how to motivate, push and develop him into being a top 4 dman in a cpl years.

 

Though I don't think Stetch has the strength or offense to be a top 4 d, I think he's a rock solid #5.

[TGT68]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

In the o-zone, for sure.  But to say he's an adventure in his own end would be putting it mildly.  Still, I'm confident that Green knows exactly how to motivate, push and develop him into being a top 4 dman in a cpl years.

 

Though I don't think Stetch has the strength or offense to be a top 4 d, I think he's a rock solid #5.

and third pair is where he should be games when we have a healthy D group.  

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, TGT68 said:

and third pair is where he should be games when we have a healthy D group.  

if they can straighten out pouliot's, that lessens the issues on d, for sure.

[TGT68]

21 minutes ago, stawns said:

if they can straighten out pouliot's, that lessens the issues on d, for sure.

Will be better if Juolevi can step in and bring up the quality of play some too.  

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, TGT68 said:

Will be better if Juolevi can step in and bring up the quality of play some too.  

now if Try comes back, then they're laughing

[canuckledraggin]

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

I don't accept this sending a guy to Utica (like we did to Stecher) because of roster problems.  It's Benning's job to make a spot for a guy who earns it.  If Olli earns a spot on our big club then he should get it.  It's should be that simple.  Every time JB sends a guy (like Stecher) to Utica it sends the wrong message to future players about our team.  "Play your best, and earn a spot, and you will still get sent to the minors (and make a lot less money, ride buses, and the rest of it) while some verteran - who you beat out - gets the perks to stay."  

We can't have any more" You're [Stecher] not supposed to be here" (WD) comments.  The best players should make the team.  JB needs to dump the others.  If that means losing a guy to waivers, so be it. 

 

No. Organizational depth has to be a consideration. He is much better served by starting in the minors and giving the team depth. As much as I have loved the Comets over the years, they are now going to experience a serious infusion of talent the way this franchise hasn't seen since the Manitoba Moose days.... and we all know what happens with that team that came up together.

 

I heard Button compare the Canucks to the 80's Oilers. I can't say that I disagree. The mix of Character and talent of our prospects is something I've never seen before. Couple that with all of the best friend and Nation connections that make them unique.

[Rob_Zepp]

4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I can’t speak for the deals people are talking about but this year I look at our roster and can see it’s overfilled. I also see some value in players. Add that JB has openly admitted he’s planning on adding more picks and it’s a pretty easy conclusion to put together. 

 

If throwing in one of our potential waiver players gets us a slightly better pick in say a tanev trade it’s a win win. 

 

 

 

Sure, that would be nice.   My point is such trades are not super common and so just don’t want people having another reason to moan and groan if and when such doesn’t happen as if there was a decision not to.   

[TGT68]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

now if Try comes back, then they're laughing

That ain't gonna happen this year though.  

[Fan since 82]

The other thing to remember with 'asset management' is that when JB calls teams about our fringe players, the other GMs will likely be aware of our over-crowding at certain positions. They'll be aware that we'll need to waive players if we can't trade them so would be happy to not use their assets for someone they very well might get for free off waivers.

 

Fortunately OJ doesn't require waivers so no fear of losing him if management feels he would be better off starting in Utica.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, TGT68 said:

Yeah.  I threw Pouliot at 7th D because he plays both sides though and I thought that made things clearer.  Frankly I thought he outplayed Stecher too.  

Pouliot's ability to play both sides (besides arguably being the better player last year) has him higher up my depth chart, not lower. 

[Legendary10]

2 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

The other thing to remember with 'asset management' is that when JB calls teams about our fringe players, the other GMs will likely be aware of our over-crowding at certain positions. They'll be aware that we'll need to waive players if we can't trade them so would be happy to not use their assets for someone they very well might get for free off waivers.

 

Fortunately OJ doesn't require waivers so no fear of losing him if management feels he would be better off starting in Utica.

Depends on which teams are interested in said player.  A team lower on the waiver list can't assume said player will be available to them.

[Fan since 82]

7 hours ago, Legendary10 said:

Depends on which teams are interested in said player.  A team lower on the waiver list can't assume said player will be available to them.

True but as has already been said, anybody we are going to put on waivers isn't going to be a huge loss for others if they miss out. We're bottom of the league, and if players can't make our team they are likely going to struggle to make anorher NHL roster. Obviously depends on each team's needs but...

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Fan since 82 said:

True but as has already been said, anybody we are going to put on waivers isn't going to be a huge loss for others if they miss out. We're bottom of the league, and if players can't make our team they are likely going to struggle to make anorher NHL roster. Obviously depends on each team's needs but...

Not making the team and not having room to play aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

Due to our rebuild, our D is a bit of a dog's breakfast with basically only two legit 1st pair D to speak of (and neither a #1). From there we have a lot of borderline 2nd pair, 3rd pair and 7-8 'spare' pair depth. An over abundance actually (though a few likely have 2nd pair upside, they clearly aren't there yet...if they get there at all).

 

So it's not as simple as 'if they can't make a bottom team' IMO. Most of those guys could make a bottom pair/spare, even on a contender. THAT's not the problem. The problem is that we lack legit top 4/2 players and have an overabundance of bottom pair guys. That means we have both, guys playing over their heads (hence our bad D) and a lack of space for guys we'd probably like to keep/develop/see who pans out over the next couple years. And that's only getting more crowded (particularly on the left side) as further prospects (OJ, Sautner, McEneny, Brisebois etc) continue to develop.

 

MDZ likely leaving at this TDL will help. I personally don't think we can afford to lose Edler (that lack of top pair capable D), so I'm guessing we re-sign him. And we likely move on from at least one of Hutton/Pouliot some time this year. But there's also no rush for us to start selling low on our young guys with us able to start our merely 20 year old OJ in Utica for part of the year. I mean I'm likely as high on OJ as anyone here long term, I've been a major proponent of drafting him since before we did. But to think at only 20 years old he's going to come in here and be head and shoulders above most of those guys, right away, is pretty optimistic IMO. It won't hurt him at all to spend a few months in Utica adjusting to N.A. pros.

 

And if by some chance he shows up to camp, clearly out playing everyone on the left side not named Edler...well then we can all talk about maybe waiving other guys. And even then, I'd not be opposed to him getting 'Stechere'd' for a few games while we wait for injury and/or a trade.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by aGENT

[Fan since 82]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Not making the team and not having room to play aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

Due to our rebuild, our D is a bit of a dog's breakfast with basically only two legit 1st pair D to speak of (and neither a #1). From there we have a lot of borderline 2nd pair, 3rd pair and 7-8 'spare' pair depth. An over abundance actually (though a few likely have 2nd pair upside, they clearly aren't there yet...if they get there at all).

 

So it's not as simple as 'if they can't make a bottom team' IMO. Most of those guys could make a bottom pair/spare, even on a contender. THAT's not the problem. The problem is that we lack legit top 4/2 players and have an overabundance of bottom pair guys. That means we have both, guys playing over their heads (hence our bad D) and a lack of space for guys we'd probably like to keep/develop/see who pans out over the next couple years. And that's only getting more crowded (particularly on the left side) as further prospects (OJ, Sautner, McEneny, Brisebois etc) continue to develop.

 

MDZ likely leaving at this TDL will help. I personally don't think we can afford to lose Edler (that lack of top pair capable D), so I'm guessing we re-sign him. And we likely move on from at least one of Hutton/Pouliot some time this year. But there's also no rush for us to start selling low on our young guys with us able to start our merely 20 year old OJ in Utica for part of the year. I mean I'm likely as high on OJ as anyone here long term, I've been a major proponent of drafting him since before we did. But to think at only 20 years old he's going to come in here and be head and shoulders above most of those guys, right away, is pretty optimistic IMO. It won't hurt him at all to spend a few months in Utica adjusting to N.A. pros.

 

And if by some chance he shows up to camp, clearly out playing everyone on the left side not named Edler...well then we can all talk about maybe waiving other guys. And even then, I'd not be opposed to him getting 'Stechere'd' for a few games while we wait for injury and/or a trade.

 

 

Good post. I wasn't looking at it from that angle so I stand corrected. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Fan since 82