Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[canucksnihilist]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Not making the team and not having room to play aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

Due to our rebuild, our D is a bit of a dog's breakfast with basically only two legit 1st pair D to speak of (and neither a #1). From there we have a lot of borderline 2nd pair, 3rd pair and 7-8 'spare' pair depth. An over abundance actually (though a few likely have 2nd pair upside, they clearly aren't there yet...if they get there at all).

 

So it's not as simple as 'if they can't make a bottom team' IMO. Most of those guys could make a bottom pair/spare, even on a contender. THAT's not the problem. The problem is that we lack legit top 4/2 players and have an overabundance of bottom pair guys. That means we have both, guys playing over their heads (hence our bad D) and a lack of space for guys we'd probably like to keep/develop/see who pans out over the next couple years. And that's only getting more crowded (particularly on the left side) as further prospects (OJ, Sautner, McEneny, Brisebois etc) continue to develop.

 

MDZ likely leaving at this TDL will help. I personally don't think we can afford to lose Edler (that lack of top pair capable D), so I'm guessing we re-sign him. And we likely move on from at least one of Hutton/Pouliot some time this year. But there's also no rush for us to start selling low on our young guys with us able to start our merely 20 year old OJ in Utica for part of the year. I mean I'm likely as high on OJ as anyone here long term, I've been a major proponent of drafting him since before we did. But to think at only 20 years old he's going to come in here and be head and shoulders above most of those guys, right away, is pretty optimistic IMO. It won't hurt him at all to spend a few months in Utica adjusting to N.A. pros.

 

And if by some chance he shows up to camp, clearly out playing everyone on the left side not named Edler...well then we can all talk about maybe waiving other guys. And even then, I'd not be opposed to him getting 'Stechere'd' for a few games while we wait for injury and/or a trade.

 

 

Yup good post.

 

From what you say, it shouldn't be a problem to jetison some of the dead wood - the bottom pairing D that are taking up space.  ONLY problem is if there are contract problems - which some of them do / have had...  Thats really the only legit criticism of this management group so far, is their contracts, but who knows the real story, maybe they knew it wouldn't matter early on if they signed guys to more $... maybe they had a problem signing anyone?  Hope for good contracts going forward - especially on bottom pairing D and forwards.

 

[Phat Fingers]

On 2018-06-04 at 6:35 PM, TGT68 said:

But who would you have to waive to keep Joulevi up?  

 

Edler Guddy

mdz tanev

Hutton Stecher 

 

That is the incumbent starting 6 to me.  

 

then we have

Pouliot

Juolevi.

 

Ok.  then we send down everyone else.  Who isn't waiver eligible that you are worried about?  

 

Beiga, Sautner, McEneny, maybe Weircoch?  

 

Who did I miss?  

 

And if any of those guys want to make the team they better outplay Juolevi, Pouliot and Hutton.  

 

But if we sign much in free agents this can all change.  

I would let Hutton go unless he shows that he committed to the program over the offseason. 

 

Hutton is on the hot seat and I hope he reslhzeses it. 

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:16 PM, canuckledraggin said:

Couple that with all of the best friend and Nation connections that make them unique.

What do you mean by this?

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

What do you mean by this?

Pretty sure he's referring to friends like Dahlen/Pettersson and Palmu/Gadjovich etc and a lot of guys have (or possibly will) have played together internationally.

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:00 AM, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Zomgggg Aaron Volpatti and Frankie Corrado!! Terrible "ass3t manag3m3nt"!!!

We did miss Volpatti when he left?

 

Did we not also claim him on waivers...?

[canuckledraggin]

They play it off as happy coincidences, but if you look at the players that they have drafted and the young players they brought in (Dahlen and Goldobin) there are lots of connections with the countries they represent. They knew Tryamkin could bolt and they brought in Goldobin, which didn't work, but it wouldn't surprise me see more Russians taken in the draft over the next couple of drafts.

 

There's the U.S. players Demko, Gaudette, Boeser and Lockwood. The Swedish besties reunited with the Pettersson pick. I personally thought they might go with Necas for the Czech connection with Jasek, but they definitely got that one right. Gadjovich and Palmu taken in the same draft and Joulevi gives them a Finnish connection.

 

Maybe they are all just coincidences, but there are recipes for success from a teambuilding perspective.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

Maybe they are all just coincidences, but there are recipes for success from a teambuilding perspective.

And I think sometime people discount how important the 'band of brothers' element is in playoff success.

 

Both teams in the cup final have that element in spades for example. The desire to push that little bit further, work a little bit harder, play through a bit more pain etc for the other 22 guys doing the same for you.

[867-five-309]

17 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I would let Hutton go unless he shows that he committed to the program over the offseason. 

 

Hutton is on the hot seat and I hope he reslhzeses it. 

Unless Hutton comes in and nails training camp I'm 100% in favor of getting rid of him.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, 867-five-309 said:

Unless Hutton comes in and nails training camp I'm 100% in favor of getting rid of him.

This is all speculative.... but I'm of the opinion that even if he comes in and performs reasonably well, that the Canucks don't see him as a long term fit. They sure wouldn't mind him upping his trade value though, I'm sure.

[Canuck Surfer]

58 minutes ago, aGENT said:

This is all speculative.... but I'm of the opinion that even if he comes in and performs reasonably well, that the Canucks don't see him as a long term fit. They sure wouldn't mind him upping his trade value though, I'm sure.

Probably close to the mark.

 

Last year, even before we picked up Pouliot. There was that talk of trading ''D depth?'' Even right from the mouth of Bennng, albeit Tryamkin bolted changing the equation.

 

But I would think JB explored moving Hutton. Talk of a D trade surfaced again & he doused Tanev discussions. I'd have to think he had feedback that with Hutton they were not confident he would make it. Much like Shinkaruk?

 

But now coming off a 5 or 6 point year, and nothing having transpired???

 

We're probably better off letting him try to respond to his call to action. Give him a shot to either earn his way back and / or improve his trade value as you suggest.    

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 7:07 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

It’s not about the value of the player lost but about the opportunity for gaining value, missed by not moving a player prior. 

 

Would had it not been better to try and obtain even a 5th or a 6th round pick for Etem at the draft in 2016 rather than losing him for nothing 2 months later? Heck maybe he could have been added to a package in another deal to get a slightly better return.

 

 

At the time, Etem had some NHL games under his belt. Was an NHL body, a type we badly needed in our line up in fact. That possibly bought him more rope than it should have?  But he was close?  I would think at that moment he had a better chance at an NHL career than, say, an average 5th rounder?

 

Most years only 3 or 4 guys drafted in the 5th play 100 NHL games, One occasionally two with substance.  

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

At the time, Etem had some NHL games under his belt. Was an NHL body, a type we badly needed in our line up in fact. That possibly bought him more rope than it should have?  But he was close?  I would think at that moment he had a better chance at an NHL career than, say, an average 5th rounder?

 

Most years only 3 or 4 guys drafted in the 5th play 100 NHL games, One occasionally two with substance.  

Its not about the value you get it’s about getting some value. It’s not rocket science to look at the roster numbers and no one player is going to be gone.

 

Is it really too much to expect our GM to have a solid idea of which players he sees on the roster verse ones he sees on the outs?  Heck us armchair GMs are capable of doing this. I would think the gm has a pretty solid idea of knowing what his roster looks like come October. 2 weeks of training camp shouldn’t change anyone’s opinion of what we saw from them in the last 8 months. 

 

For example. I would love to see your projected roster for next year. 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Its not about the value you get it’s about getting some value. It’s not rocket science to look at the roster numbers and no one player is going to be gone.

 

Maybe he feels there might be rocket fuel left in Hutton? Like he did Etem. That proved wrong, but such is life. Rocket scientists experiment with their formulas. There is also opportunity lost when you give up on a guy too soon. Example Michael Grabner?

 

Your expectation the GM will accurately predict exactly the 22 bodies that will be uninjured & win jobs is unhealthy. Or that he'll find a market for a guy you he believes is a dud? JB will make the trade if we get something of substance. Otherwise he will just send them into the gladiator ring. The plan every year is to stack 4 or 5 bodies to compete for the last jobs. And that 2 or 3 of them will survive waivers to be available for Utica. Callups...  

 

If those guys, Hutton, Biega, Pouliot, don't beat this years Wiercioch for a spot? So be it...  

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Maybe he feels there might be rocket fuel left in Hutton? Like he did Etem. That proved wrong, but such is life. Rocket scientists experiment with their formulas. There is also opportunity lost when you give up on a guy too soon. Example Michael Grabner?

 

Your expectation the GM will accurately predict exactly the 22 bodies that will be uninjured & win jobs is unhealthy. Or that he'll find a market for a guy you he believes is a dud? JB will make the trade if we get something of substance.

I don’t expect him to accurately predict. But at this low of value who really cares I’m not expecting any of the players we move out to be the next Wild bill. You’re choosing between bottom 6 depth. 

 

And since when are late round picks substance.  I’m looking at added low asset value that brings us another at bat,  with is better than only having to swings. 

 

I don’t get this idea that late picks are so low at becoming nhlers therefor who cares if we acquire them.  All assets have value. Whether the just improve your ahl depth (Jasek). You flip them for another player (forsling) or you luck out and they become gaudette.  

 

 

I am curious to to see your line predictions for next year

 

 

[Alflives]

It's exciting to hear, and read, really good stuff on Olli.  I keep hearing comparisons to Dan Hamhuis, but with a lot more offence.  That's one heck of a player!!!!!

Great pick by JB!!!

[Phat Fingers]

Where did the Ollie thread go?  I take a break for a few weeks and now this is the Hutton thread... 

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t get this idea that late picks are so low at becoming nhlers therefor who cares if we acquire them.  All assets have value. Whether the just improve your ahl depth (Jasek). You flip them for another player (forsling) or you luck out and they become gaudette.  

 

I am curious to to see your line predictions for next year

I can tell you don't get it. That there is a different argument that is.

 

Hutton IMO, he scored 22 points (edit 24 points) just a couple years ago. Has NHL speed, and he's 6'2''. I would not be giving up on him, nor selling low. My own opinion, prediction is he will rebound. And that Juolevi will play part or most of the season in the NHL. To me that's a good depth player to have. 

 

He also might beat Juolevi for a roster spot? I cannot predict? He was a Hobey Baker finalist. It is possible! I can add what I would try...   (but really, how close will I be?)

 

 

I would be signing a D man, just one, who was significantly better than MDZ.  Our left is ''full,'' but with significant questions. And prospects like Juolevi that should start challenging existing guys. Maybe not right away & more than one guy. (Edler, Juolevi, MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton, Sautner is an ok but not high upside guy, Brisbois, McEneny, Chatfield). Our current NHL RHD (Tanev, Stecher, Guddy, Biega) depth is better? But we are at near ground zero for prospects, Rathbone, who I like, is years away. Juolevi is waiver exempt. I have no quims assigning him back to Europe, or the AHL to develop further. Or a spot of he deserves it. And I would be gearing up to trade Edler & MDZ next deadline. It will bring better assets than selling our fringe players? But we would have to wait to secure them.

 

If I had a choice? That UFA would be a righty with puck skills. We need lots of things, but speed and some puck skills, a PP QB are highest on the list.  But just an excellent two way D man, if that is what the market allowed? And a lefty if that's what's available? Because ultimately I am going to move on from MDZ and Edler. I am happy to spend money, not going term unless someone is at the min UFA age. And not swinging for the fence on Carlson. Plus I draft Dobson or Boqvist, whichever available.

 

> Mike Green, overpay for 2 years, two x $7.3.  

> Calvin De Haan, 5 x $5.something low or mid.

 

Those would be my two keys efforts?  Would kick the tires on Sbisa, Johnny Moore or Ian Cole.  And I would also look at a secondary market for a better version of Wiercioch. Sustr, Jerabek, bring back Hamhuis at a lower rate.  If we signed a De Haan, maybe I do trade a Hutton now for a depth pick? But if no takers, no takers, including on a UFA...

 

De Haan Stecher                               Edler Green

Edler Tanev                                       Juolevi Tanev

MDZ Gudbrandson                            Pouliot Gudbrandosn

Pouliot Stecher   Biega/Hutton??       MDZ Stecher   Biega/Hutton

 

One of Pouliot, Hutton or Biega could be a casualty, on waivers. But they also may pass, serve in Utica? One guy at least will be injured. Call up Juolevi as soon as someone injured. We run, which has proven to be required, 10 to 12 deep in guys who could play games, adding McEneny, Sautner & Chatfield as possible call ups. 

  

I think there is a strong chance we get a 1st or another Goldobin, worst case, for Edler at the deadline. And another Leipsic.  Just another Leipsic for MDZ.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Canuck Surfer

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Where did the Ollie thread go?  I take a break for a few weeks and now this is the Hutton thread... 

The implication is Ollie may push Hutter out?

[Phat Fingers]

11 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

The implication is Ollie may push Hutter out?

I know, but thought I could add some levity... the board is bored waiting for draft day.  

[Phat Fingers]

14 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I can tell you don't get it. That there is a different argument that is.

 

Hutton IMO, he scored 22 points (edit 24 points) just a couple years ago. Has NHL speed, and he's 6'2''. I would not be giving up on him, nor selling low. My own opinion, prediction is he will rebound. And that Juolevi will play part or most of the season in the NHL. To me that's a good depth player to have. 

 

He also might beat Juolevi for a roster spot? I cannot predict? He was a Hobey Baker finalist. It is possible! I can add what I would try...   (but really, how close will I be?)

 

 

I would be signing a D man, just one, who was significantly better than MDZ.  Our left is ''full,'' but with significant questions. And prospects like Juolevi that should start challenging existing guys. Maybe not right away & more than one guy. (Edler, Juolevi, MDZ, Pouliot, Hutton, Sautner is an ok but not high upside guy, Brisbois, McEneny, Chatfield). Our current NHL RHD (Tanev, Stecher, Guddy, Biega) depth is better? But we are at near ground zero for prospects, Rathbone, who I like, is years away. Juolevi is waiver exempt. I have no quims assigning him back to Europe, or the AHL to develop further. Or a spot of he deserves it. And I would be gearing up to trade Edler & MDZ next deadline. It will bring better assets than selling our fringe players? But we would have to wait to secure them.

 

If I had a choice? That UFA would be a righty with puck skills. We need lots of things, but speed and some puck skills, a PP QB are highest on the list.  But just an excellent two way D man, if that is what the market allowed? And a lefty if that's what's available? Because ultimately I am going to move on from MDZ and Edler. I am happy to spend money, not going term unless someone is at the min UFA age. And not swinging for the fence on Carlson. Plus I draft Dobson or Boqvist, whichever available.

 

> Mike Green, overpay for 2 years, two x $7.3.  

> Calvin De Haan, 5 x $5.something low or mid.

 

Those would be my two keys efforts?  Would kick the tires on Sbisa, Johnny Moore or Ian Cole.  And I would also look at a secondary market for a better version of Wiercioch. Sustr, Jerabek, bring back Hamhuis at a lower rate.  If we signed a De Haan, maybe I do trade a Hutton now for a depth pick? But if no takers, no takers, including on a UFA...

 

De Haan Stecher                               Edler Green

Edler Tanev                                       Juolevi Tanev

MDZ Gudbrandson                            Pouliot Gudbrandosn

Pouliot Stecher   Biega/Hutton??       MDZ Stecher   Biega/Hutton

 

One of Pouliot, Hutton or Biega could be a casualty, on waivers. But they also may pass, serve in Utica? One guy at least will be injured. Call up Juolevi as soon as someone injured. We run, which has proven to be required, 10 to 12 deep in guys who could play games, adding McEneny, Sautner & Chatfield as possible call ups. 

  

I think there is a strong chance we get a 1st or another Goldobin, worst case, for Edler at the deadline. And another Leipsic.  Just another Leipsic for MDZ.

Agree.  

 

We should be targeting a high valued RHD this FA season. One other guy that I would be more inclined to spend some serrious cap on would be John Carlson. There is no prospect currently in the system that can take a top 4 RHD spot.  Anyone we draft at 7 should be at least 2 to 3 years away from playing regular minutes, longer to become a solid top pairing player. 

 

He is the right age, plays lots of games, will be a SC Champ and can QB a PP.  The team will also get more back bone. 

 

Edler. Carlson

OJ (by TDL) Tanev

MDZ Guddy

Pouliot Stecher. 

 

Hutton and Biega can fight their way onto the club. 

 

Draft Dobson, Bouchard or Bomqvist, in two years Edler is likely traded, same with Tanev.  We will hopefully get Trymakin back next year.  

 

In two years time. 

 

OJ Carlson

Trymakin Bouchard Bomqvist or Dobson 

Pouliot Guddy

 

Plus whomever rises to the top. 

 

Signing Carlson to big money won’t hurt our cap and he has been very durable.  He could be the veteran top pairing foundational player for our d retool on the fly...