Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[J-P]

31 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

I agree with you. I watched a lot of Juolevi last year and caught most of 3 games of Utica this year and while Juolevi has some elite attributes as a defender, passing and his defensive IQ his weakness is his foot speed. He has a a really slow first few steps that don't allow him to close gaps quicky or defend well when the play is scrambley. 

 

When the play is structured he always make excellent reads and is excellent at breaking up plays through the neutral zone but 1v1 or in scrambled play he can be prone to giving up quality chances against. Its like watching Tanev vs Edler out there. Watch how fast Tanev moves his feet to get into position and close gaps defensively vs Edler who kinda prods along out there. Edler does a decent enough job out there though so Juolevi will be able to as well but I just have a hard time picturing Juolevi ever being a high end defender with his slow feet.

Those are definitely valid points and concerns - but one question, why do you think every canucks coach play Edler 5 mins more per game vs Tanev?

[Sergei Shirokov]

How you guys rank the defense in Utica through 6 games? Juolevi seems like he'd be at No.3. Being familiar with a team and a league makes a big difference. It'll come for Juolevi. 

 

1. Chatfield

2. Sautner

3. Juolevi

4. Brisebois

 

[ohmy]

What exactly does everyone want from Juolevi? Kids had a good start to his North American pro career. Looking great on the powerplay, crisp outlet passes as usual, and clearly is more engaged. Has he made some mistakes? Yeah of course he has, hes playing a different style of game on a different ice surface and most likely still not 100% from back surgery. Probably similar to Boeser but hes coming around as will Olli. Im not worried or have any doubt that hes gonna be a huge part of the Canucks future. If anything people should be excited to see his progression so far. On a similar if not better path then Klingberg, Lindell, Josi, Ekholm, Ristolainen, Morrissey, and Im sure theres more. We just live in this now society where patience is an afterthought. You see it in the way people drive, the way we try to lose weight or build muscle, how we get our food, and of course how we treat our prospects. I agree with a lot of positives and flaws people are pointing out but if your not encouraged by what you see then that's nothing more than a jaded opinion because the facts say otherwise.  Hope everyone has a great day doing what there doing, hockey and beer are only hours away. 

 

[Ihatetomatoes]

25 minutes ago, J-P said:

Those are definitely valid points and concerns - but one question, why do you think every canucks coach play Edler 5 mins more per game vs Tanev?

Because Edler gets 1st pairing PP minutes and is much better offensively

[aGENT]

13 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I doubt very much that Edler is back next year for one. 

Gotta disagree.

 

Edler will almost surely re-sign for below market as he's repeatedly mentioned that he loves it here and wants to stay. AKA - they're not going to do any better replacing him in free agency for less $$.

 

This team has consistently, throughout this rebuild, maintained sheltering veterans to eat harder minutes/assignments to avoid putting kids in over their heads too soon. Don't see that stopping now.

 

Any of Hughes, Pouliot, Brisebois and Tryamkin (if he ever returns) all can/have/do play right side as well.

 

I can easily see them re-signing Edler for a couple years (until the Seattle ED maybe?) to shelter the kids and slowly move down to 2nd or 3rd pair as kids pass him in pecking order/he ages.

Edited October 18, 2018 by aGENT

[UticaHockey]

24 minutes ago, Sergei Shirokov said:

How you guys rank the defense in Utica through 6 games? Juolevi seems like he'd be at No.3. Being familiar with a team and a league makes a big difference. It'll come for Juolevi. 

 

1. Chatfield

2. Sautner

3. Juolevi

4. Brisebois

 

1. Sautner

2. Juolevi

3. Brisebois

4. Chatfield

5. McEneny 

 

For me Sautner is the clear #1.  Very solid and makes few mistakes.  Juolevi and Brisebois are similar and the order could be switched.  Both are good skaters and make good breakout passes.  Chatfield is a distant 4th.  EMac has a ways to go to get back to where his was before his latest knee surgery.  

Edited October 18, 2018 by UticaHockey

[nergish]

Honestly, what was it that everybody liked so much about Olli playing for Finland WJC in his draft year?

Does anybody really remember?

 

Because thinking back, I don't think it was really his defending... at all.

It was his work on the powerplay and feeding the puck to skilled players...

He was a treat with Laine and Poolparty. 

 

That's what he will be for Vancouver.

I'd argue we still need to keep drafting Jett Woos and tough stay-at-home defenders with size (not Gudbransons though), because Olli is an offensive defenseman 

Not a speedy, spin-o-rama type guy who can be mistaken for a forward. Not even a booming slapper from the point. But a deadly calm, pinpoint passer. Able to find open guys in the right spots. Sneaky wrister when he has a path to the net. 

He will bring exactly what Edler does to the current powerplay, but with even more creativity and offensive acumen. 

 

This year in the AHL is for teaching the kid that most of the game is not spent with a man-advantage. He will need to defend hard, relentlessly trying to keep the puck out of dangerous areas in his own end. That all comes down to hunger. He's now at a great size and has all the tools, he needs to command the game his way.

 

But he needs to be a top PP guy for the Comets, and seems like he is becoming that in short order. That's his bread n butter.

 

 

[TGT68]

Basically what I see of Juolevi is the lead d man on Petterssens unit.  EP is a play driver and needs smart players to play with.  

 

Hughes is the play driver for Horvat/Boeser.  

[Ray_Cathode]

3 hours ago, J-P said:

Those are definitely valid points and concerns - but one question, why do you think every canucks coach play Edler 5 mins more per game vs Tanev?

Edler plays most of every power play, for one significant thing, Tanev pretty much zero.  They both are significant penalty killers and shot blockers.  Edler is much more robust and able to handle heavy traffic than Tanev - so matches against heavy forwards may tilt in Edler's favor.  Also, look at team structure: on the right side we have Tanev, Stetcher, and Gudbranson - lately we have Edler, Pouliot and Hutton on the left.  How much are you going to want to play Pouliot and Hutton on the PK?  At least for now.  That means that the load on the right side is more balanced than on the left side.  If Hutton and Pouliot keep improving, that may change.  

[J-P]

9 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Edler plays most of every power play, for one significant thing, Tanev pretty much zero.  They both are significant penalty killers and shot blockers.  Edler is much more robust and able to handle heavy traffic than Tanev - so matches against heavy forwards may tilt in Edler's favor.  Also, look at team structure: on the right side we have Tanev, Stetcher, and Gudbranson - lately we have Edler, Pouliot and Hutton on the left.  How much are you going to want to play Pouliot and Hutton on the PK?  At least for now.  That means that the load on the right side is more balanced than on the left side.  If Hutton and Pouliot keep improving, that may change.  

Nah, I agree that I'd take Stetcher and Guddy over Pouliot and Hutton and that Edler's more robust, but mainly he's just a better player, like a #2-3 d on a contender whereas Tanev's a #3-4 IMHO.

[Ray_Cathode]

4 minutes ago, J-P said:

Nah, I agree that I'd take Stetcher and Guddy over Pouliot and Hutton and that Edler's more robust, but mainly he's just a better player, like a #2-3 d on a contender whereas Tanev's a #3-4 IMHO.

My evaluation is that Edler is the more rounded player, but that Tanev is by far the better defensive player, he is a lifetime +34 and Edler a lifetime -48.  +/- may not mean much in the short run, but in the long haul it is telling - particularly when defensively they play similar roles.  I really don't see Edler as a 2 on a contender, whereas Tanev could be if he is used to support a number one who is really offensive minded.  But that's all just judgement, and it could go many ways depending on the fit with the team's needs.

[J-P]

3 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Because Edler gets 1st pairing PP minutes and is much better offensively

Yep, judging from last game where no PP time and Tanev got 30 secs more ice time you are right. Stll, if Edler's just slow and they get the same ice time 5 vs 5, why is that? And I'd still say Edler's more trusted on 5 vs 5 althought that of course remains to be seen throughout the season

[J-P]

13 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

My evaluation is that Edler is the more rounded player, but that Tanev is by far the better defensive player, he is a lifetime +34 and Edler a lifetime -48.  +/- may not mean much in the short run, but in the long haul it is telling - particularly when defensively they play similar roles.  I really don't see Edler as a 2 on a contender, whereas Tanev could be if he is used to support a number one who is really offensive minded.  But that's all just judgement, and it could go many ways depending on the fit with the team's needs.

Not saying you are wrong, I agree that +/- says something in the long run and Tanev is really a stud defensively. Though, take into account the games played the last 2-3 seasons and the heavy lifting Edler's done when Tanev's been injured and it's not as crystal clear. And of course, what it comes down to is who you'd choose for a cup run. As a role player Tanev's one of the best in the league defensively, but for most teams and seasons I'd still choose Edler simply because he's the better player.

[Rob_Zepp]

 

Olli Juolevi notched his first North American professional goal but on the night it was a game that he would rather forget.  The pairing of Chatfield - Juolevi struggled all night in the defensive zone and Olli was victimized too many times by weak passes that were either picked off or immediately put the receiver of the pass in a bad position.

 

In general I have been impressed with Juolevi so far this season but last night wan't one of them.

Agreed - just watched the film and it was a poor game by many on the team with OJ near the front of that line.

[Rob_Zepp]

 

I have watched every minute of every game, and plus minus is a valuable stat when the differences are so extreme, yeah once in a while you get a bad hit on plus minus, but that is often offset by stepping on the ice just as your team scores.  But a net difference of 11 (+4 / -7) over five games is more than 2 goals per game - that is significant.  I’m not putting Juolevi down, I’m glad we have him, but I’m not prepared to say he is sound defensively yet - he just isn’t.

His last game he wasn’t for sure but otherwise, we clearly will agree to disagree.

[Dazzle]

On 10/16/2018 at 6:39 PM, danny.canuck said:

Why trade Brisebois? Because he has a bit of value, he's bad, he's replaceable via FA, we have too many LD, and because we need picks to get Jack Hughes and one or more RD in the 2019 draft.

 

Huge deadline needed to prep for a massive Hughes package:

 

Out: Edler (2nd), Sutter (2nd), Brisebois (3rd), Nilsson (4th), Del Zotto (6th), Granlund (7th)

 

In: J. Hughes (1st, 0-3 x 2nd, 0-2 x 3rd, 0-2 x 4th, etc.)

 

Ideally we get first overall and stockpile new RD talent, otherwise push in your chips.

 

Stanley Cup in 2022.

Lolwut

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dazzle

[Ihatetomatoes]

23 minutes ago, J-P said:

Yep, judging from last game where no PP time and Tanev got 30 secs more ice time you are right. Stll, if Edler's just slow and they get the same ice time 5 vs 5, why is that? And I'd still say Edler's more trusted on 5 vs 5 althought that of course remains to be seen throughout the season

Why does Edler get as much 5v5 ice time as Tanev even though he's slow? 

 

Because he's still decent at defending even though he's pretty slow and has 10 years of NHL experience. Also he's decent offensively and most important he's the best option we have. There isnt a better left defender to take those minutes. 

 

How does this relate to Juolevi? Personally I see his defensive abilities being very similar to the Edler we have now. Smart, strong and good enough puck skills to make a good breakout pass yet still a little to slow to be elite defensively. 

[J-P]

4 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Why does Edler get as much 5v5 ice time as Tanev even though he's slow? 

 

Because he's still decent at defending even though he's pretty slow and has 10 years of NHL experience. Also he's decent offensively and most important he's the best option we have. There isnt a better left defender to take those minutes. 

 

How does this relate to Juolevi? Personally I see his defensive abilities being very similar to the Edler we have now. Smart, strong and good enough puck skills to make a good breakout pass yet still a little to slow to be elite defensively. 

Yeah, but if you accept that OJ is not Burns or Erik Karlsson etc and that he will be better than Edler offensively and in time about equal defensively than that's one hell of a defender and a #2 D on any team. Lets hope for that.

[JamesB]

7 hours ago, UticaHockey said:

Olli Juolevi notched his first North American professional goal but on the night it was a game that he would rather forget.  The pairing of Chatfield - Juolevi struggled all night in the defensive zone and Olli was victimized too many times by weak passes that were either picked off or immediately put the receiver of the pass in a bad position.

 

In general I have been impressed with Juolevi so far this season but last night wan't one of them.

 

5 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

I agree with you. I watched a lot of Juolevi last year and caught most of 3 games of Utica this year and while Juolevi has some elite attributes as a defender, passing and his defensive IQ his weakness is his foot speed. He has a a really slow first few steps that don't allow him to close gaps quicky or defend well when the play is scrambley. 

 

When the play is structured he always make excellent reads and is excellent at breaking up plays through the neutral zone but 1v1 or in scrambled play he can be prone to giving up quality chances against. Its like watching Tanev vs Edler out there. Watch how fast Tanev moves his feet to get into position and close gaps defensively vs Edler who kinda prods along out there. Edler does a decent enough job out there though so Juolevi will be able to as well but I just have a hard time picturing Juolevi ever being a high end defender with his slow feet.

 

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Edler will almost surely re-sign for below market as he's repeatedly mentioned that he loves it here and wants to stay. AKA - they're not going to do any better replacing him in free agency for less $$.

 

This team has consistently, throughout this rebuild, maintained sheltering veterans to eat harder minutes/assignments to avoid putting kids in over their heads too soon. Don't see that stopping now.

.....

 

Thought I would weigh in on the Edler/Juolevi comparison.

 

First I want to agree with aGENT that Edler will be back. The argument that Hughes and Juolevi coming along will make Edler expendable is completely wrong. Benning does not think that way, and I personally am happy about that. Benning is not going to count on rookies to replace the best D on the team.

 

And Edler is easily the best D on the team. Yes, he makes some mistakes (who doesn't). But he takes the tough minutes AND plays well on PP. Admittedly, on a really good team he would be #2 or #3, not #1, but any team in the league would be happy to have him in the top 4. He likes it here and would sign for a reasonable salary. In terms of performance per dollar no other UFA signing the Canucks have done in recent years or will do next summer would be as good. And it is not obvious Juolevi makes the team next year and it would be a bit early to count on Hughes, although I expect him to be on the team. But, you don't drop a guy like Edler in favor of two guys who have not yet played a regular season NHL game. 

 

My biggest concern about Juolevi is the quickness of his feet. In pre-season of 2017 he got turnstiled a number of times because he could not transition quickly enough from skating backwards to skating forward with the attacking forward. In 2018 he was better and managed to avoid getting completely turnstiled, but it was close a few times and he just barely managed to keep guys to the outside. Edler is actually very good at making that transition, even though his straight-ahead acceleration and top speed are not that great.

 

My second concern about Juolevi is his passive style of play. Apparently he is becoming more assertive in Utica this year -- carrying the puck, using his body, getting involved in the offense. He certainly needs to be more engaged and more assertive in these areas than he showed in pre-season. Edler IS assertive in these areas. He can play a physical game when needed, he takes advantage of size generally, and obviously he gets involved with the offense. And he has a heavy shot that is getting blocked less often this year.

 

Juolevi still has a ways to go before catching up to Edler. I hope it happens, and I hope it happens soon. But we can't count on it happening this year or even next.

 

 

[ohmy]

3 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

As far as I can see, everybody is being patient here.  I am not reading any negative reviews, unless I am missing something?

I spent to much time on hf boards, probably should have added that to my vent.