Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Yes let’s also throw in ehlers while we are at it ?

 

weve said this too many times already.  We cannot have tkatchuk and pettersson on the same roster due to the butterfly effect of having tkachuk on our team in 2017 would have made us a stronger team and ultimately not being able to pick pettersson.

 

We don't know that for sure though.

 

The Canucks had Virtanen and McCann make the team during Tkachuk's draft year and the early exposure seemed to have a negative effect on both players in the long run. Tkachuk would have gone back to London team with a good reputation for developing players with Dale Hunter if he didn't make the Canucks straight away. In addition, Tkachuk would have a chance to dispel one of the biggest concerns about him by going back to a London team without Dvorak and Marner, two players who some thought were driving his production. Those factors make it seem like sending Tkachuk back to the OHL for his draft -1 year would've been a real possibility. 

 

However, we can say with a strong sense of certainty that we likely would not have landed Hughes in the 2018 draft. 

[JeremyCuddles]

2 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Yes let’s also throw in ehlers while we are at it ?

 

weve said this too many times already.  We cannot have tkatchuk and pettersson on the same roster due to the butterfly effect of having tkachuk on our team in 2017 would have made us a stronger team and ultimately not being able to pick pettersson.

You don’t know that.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

16 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

You don’t know that.

its basic analytics.  you guys have to stop using this "we don't know that" for the sake of argument.   Its quite obvious Tkachuk would have made us a better team, I personally don't think it would have bumped us into the playoffs, but still a bad team. 

[MoneypuckOverlord]

17 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

We don't know that for sure though.

 

The Canucks had Virtanen and McCann make the team during Tkachuk's draft year and the early exposure seemed to have a negative effect on both players in the long run. Tkachuk would have gone back to London team with a good reputation for developing players with Dale Hunter if he didn't make the Canucks straight away. In addition, Tkachuk would have a chance to dispel one of the biggest concerns about him by going back to a London team without Dvorak and Marner, two players who some thought were driving his production. Those factors make it seem like sending Tkachuk back to the OHL for his draft -1 year would've been a real possibility. 

 

However, we can say with a strong sense of certainty that we likely would not have landed Hughes in the 2018 draft. 

Tkackuk made the Calgary Flames, I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have made the Canucks which is a weaker team.   Or at the same time if we don't know that for sure, then why are we still complaining about getting Tkachuk then? 

[Gaudette Celly]

On 12/25/2018 at 9:20 AM, Westcoasting said:

Refresh our memories on how Keiths contract  sunk the jets.

Just from my recollection, the Jets were already in financial trouble and the Hawks signed Tkachuk to a heavily front-loaded offer sheet -- $17mil with $6mil of it in the first season, knowing that it would basically ensure the Jets leave Winnipeg.  The Jets had no choice, they had to match and were gone I think the next year, but stripped him of the C.  Keith of course made significantly less in the remaining years of the contract and sure enough just as I figured, he went and held out because of it until St. Louis renegotiated or something or other.  The offer sheet was the determinant, and what he pulled later cemented his legacy for me at least.  Was never a class act, and it was always about himself and the money, putting the nail in the coffin for a Canadian franchise.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

18 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

 

We don't know that for sure though.

 

The Canucks had Virtanen and McCann make the team during Tkachuk's draft year and the early exposure seemed to have a negative effect on both players in the long run. Tkachuk would have gone back to London team with a good reputation for developing players with Dale Hunter if he didn't make the Canucks straight away. In addition, Tkachuk would have a chance to dispel one of the biggest concerns about him by going back to a London team without Dvorak and Marner, two players who some thought were driving his production. Those factors make it seem like sending Tkachuk back to the OHL for his draft -1 year would've been a real possibility. 

 

That's exactly what Burke thought too, he even told the owner in the summer that was the plan.  Matt had other plans and played his way onto the flames earned a 9 game spot where he put up 4 points, +3 and was playing 12 min a night.   Also consider that canucks started the season featuring Gaunce, Skille, and Megna, it would have been near impossible for Tkachuk to have not made the roster. 

 

6 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Just from my recollection, the Jets were already in financial trouble and the Hawks signed Tkachuk to a heavily front-loaded offer sheet -- $17mil with $6mil of it in the first season, knowing that it would basically ensure the Jets leave Winnipeg.  The Jets had no choice, they had to match and were gone I think the next year, but stripped him of the C.  Keith of course made significantly less in the remaining years of the contract and sure enough just as I figured, he went and held out because of it until St. Louis renegotiated or something or other.  The offer sheet was the determinant, and what he pulled later cemented his legacy for me at least.  Was never a class act, and it was always about himself and the money, putting the nail in the coffin for a Canadian franchise.

He signed an offer sheet and then willed the team into playoffs after putting up 50 goals and 98 points.  The next closest to him was selanne who missed 21 games and had 72 points.  What's wrong about him signing a contract that was offered to him.  Is Shea Weber held to the same standards after signing an outrageous offer sheet? What about Bure who held out then demanded a trade in Vancouver all over money....

 

[Westcoasting]

27 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Just from my recollection, the Jets were already in financial trouble and the Hawks signed Tkachuk to a heavily front-loaded offer sheet -- $17mil with $6mil of it in the first season, knowing that it would basically ensure the Jets leave Winnipeg.  The Jets had no choice, they had to match and were gone I think the next year, but stripped him of the C.  Keith of course made significantly less in the remaining years of the contract and sure enough just as I figured, he went and held out because of it until St. Louis renegotiated or something or other.  The offer sheet was the determinant, and what he pulled later cemented his legacy for me at least.  Was never a class act, and it was always about himself and the money, putting the nail in the coffin for a Canadian franchise.

There was quite a bit more to it than just a players salary or two... the old Winnipeg stadium sucked and no one  was willing to put up or partner on a  new one. No one wanted to buy the team at the time. The writing was on the wall. An american stepped in and bought them and the rest is history.

 

I'm totally with you by the way in regards to offer sheets and hold outs etc. that crap used to drive me nuts. But in reality the Jets were the smallest market at the time with the worst stadium to make money with. Now i think they get a 10 million gambling fund to help them out. I didn't like Sakic signing his either and that was for 16 million i think wasn't it? I really used to hate players who had a signed contract, and then the next season holds out because his buddy just negotiated a better deal for himself!! lol if only i could do that in life!

[Gaudette Celly]

Again, the issue wasn't that he got paid what he was worth, but that he not only willingly leveraged another team in putting his (financially troubled) team and its city over a barrel by massively front-loading a contract, happily took over 1/3 of the entire contract up front, then had the absolute gall a few years later to whine that he was thereafter only getting a couple million per year in salary and held out for renegotiation after he'd already been paid most of it.

 

Quote

Tkachuk, who had two years left on a five-year contract, had insisted he would return to the fold only if he gained financial concessions in an extension that would place him among the NHL's highest-paid players at his position.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coyotes-sign-holdout-tkachuk/

Saw it as inevitable the moment he signed the offer sheet, because that's just who he is.

[Boudrias]

12 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Just from my recollection, the Jets were already in financial trouble and the Hawks signed Tkachuk to a heavily front-loaded offer sheet -- $17mil with $6mil of it in the first season, knowing that it would basically ensure the Jets leave Winnipeg.  The Jets had no choice, they had to match and were gone I think the next year, but stripped him of the C.  Keith of course made significantly less in the remaining years of the contract and sure enough just as I figured, he went and held out because of it until St. Louis renegotiated or something or other.  The offer sheet was the determinant, and what he pulled later cemented his legacy for me at least.  Was never a class act, and it was always about himself and the money, putting the nail in the coffin for a Canadian franchise.

What has changed in hockey finance since the Jets left Winnipeg? As the CDN$ continues to slide towards 60 cents the Canadian NHL franchises will again come under pressure. In the Jets case just imagine their struggle to re-up all their young talent. I can easily see them losing pieces because they cannot afford them. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[gobi]

On 12/26/2018 at 6:24 PM, Hutton Wink said:

Just from my recollection, the Jets were already in financial trouble and the Hawks signed Tkachuk to a heavily front-loaded offer sheet -- $17mil with $6mil of it in the first season, knowing that it would basically ensure the Jets leave Winnipeg.  The Jets had no choice, they had to match and were gone I think the next year, but stripped him of the C.  Keith of course made significantly less in the remaining years of the contract and sure enough just as I figured, he went and held out because of it until St. Louis renegotiated or something or other.  The offer sheet was the determinant, and what he pulled later cemented his legacy for me at least.  Was never a class act, and it was always about himself and the money, putting the nail in the coffin for a Canadian franchise.

I don't understand this part.  Why did the Jets had to match?  If it's between signing Keith vs the survival of the team, I'd choose the latter.

[MeanSeanBean]

Matt is a rat and I for one am glad he is no where near our organization. Obviously the injuries Olli has suffered are a bummer, but from day 1 after the draft we knew this kid needed time. I still have very high Hope's for the kid turning into a solid part of our D core.

 

I'm shocked how many people are writing him off, he has had solid progression since his draft and was adjusting nicely to the pro NA game in Utica before his injury.

[J-Dizzle]

On 12/26/2018 at 6:45 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

That's exactly what Burke thought too, he even told the owner in the summer that was the plan.  Matt had other plans and played his way onto the flames earned a 9 game spot where he put up 4 points, +3 and was playing 12 min a night.   Also consider that canucks started the season featuring Gaunce, Skille, and Megna, it would have been near impossible for Tkachuk to have not made the roster. 

 

He signed an offer sheet and then willed the team into playoffs after putting up 50 goals and 98 points.  The next closest to him was selanne who missed 21 games and had 72 points.  What's wrong about him signing a contract that was offered to him.  Is Shea Weber held to the same standards after signing an outrageous offer sheet? What about Bure who held out then demanded a trade in Vancouver all over money....

 

All else aside....this franchise treated Bure terribly. 

[J-Dizzle]

On 12/26/2018 at 6:45 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

That's exactly what Burke thought too, he even told the owner in the summer that was the plan.  Matt had other plans and played his way onto the flames earned a 9 game spot where he put up 4 points, +3 and was playing 12 min a night.   Also consider that canucks started the season featuring Gaunce, Skille, and Megna, it would have been near impossible for Tkachuk to have not made the roster. 

 

He signed an offer sheet and then willed the team into playoffs after putting up 50 goals and 98 points.  The next closest to him was selanne who missed 21 games and had 72 points.  What's wrong about him signing a contract that was offered to him.  Is Shea Weber held to the same standards after signing an outrageous offer sheet? What about Bure who held out then demanded a trade in Vancouver all over money....

 

All else aside....this franchise treated Bure terribly. 

[Butters Stoch]

37 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Matt is a rat and I for one am glad he is no where near our organization. Obviously the injuries Olli has suffered are a bummer, but from day 1 after the draft we knew this kid needed time. I still have very high Hope's for the kid turning into a solid part of our D core.

 

I'm shocked how many people are writing him off, he has had solid progression since his draft and was adjusting nicely to the pro NA game in Utica before his injury.

Burr, Kes, and Lapierre were "rats" and most of our fans loved them.

[UticaHockey]

4 minutes ago, Butters Stoch said:

Burr, Kes, and Lapierre were "rats" and most of our fans loved them.

Everyone hates a rat on another team and loves them on their own team. Tkachuk is no different.

[Blömqvist]

On 12/25/2018 at 9:55 PM, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Yes let’s also throw in ehlers while we are at it ?

 

weve said this too many times already.  We cannot have tkatchuk and pettersson on the same roster due to the butterfly effect of having tkachuk on our team in 2017 would have made us a stronger team and ultimately not being able to pick pettersson.

 

The Rangers traded up in that draft too, selecting with the 7th overall pick Lias Andersson, who was playing in Sweden at the time too. I strongly believe that Pettersson would not get past the Rangers. In the scenario where we would have Tkachuk in all likelihood we would have picked after the NYR at 7th overall pick in the 2017 draft, meaning no Pettersson but yes to anyone after (Villardi, Liljegren, Brannstrom, etc). 

[messier's_elbow]

On 12/24/2018 at 5:28 PM, Bitter Melon said:

I didn’t want him at the draft and I still don’t want Tkachuk, despite all he’s accomplished. He’s a prick with the most punchable face in the league. The one thing this organization has prioritized over everything else in the draft is character, and it pays dividends.

 

“BuT yOU woULd LikE hIm if He wUZ a CaNUCK!” 

Yeah and people make that same argument about Marchand, I don’t care.

I don’t know man. I still have faith in Juolevi but Tkachuk would look amazing with Pettersson or Horvat... 

[messier's_elbow]

On 12/24/2018 at 8:37 PM, The Lock said:

I recall the Juolevi pick very differently from what you recall apparently. I recall a lot more strife when Juolevi was picked compared with Hughes. lol

Yeah it wasn’t even close. People were celebrating with the Hughes pick. People were mad we didn’t take Tkachuk. I think that had a bit to do with Politics. 

[messier's_elbow]

On 12/25/2018 at 4:48 PM, Alflives said:

Hughes is a unique player the likes of we haven’t seen.  This time 2019, he will be showing he’s the best in his draft.  

I definitely think he will be a top 3 player from the 2018 draft. His skating and hockey IQ are elite.