Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

Best drafting GM in club history or will be.  Yet there is a vocal and hopefully a minority that doesn't get it.  

 

The need to pick apart certain draft choices is a nervous habit on the CDC.  Maybe created after decades of really bad drafting.  

 

Even after bringing in Boeser and EP40 among others JB is still vilified for taking two players Virtannen, though that noise is finally dying down, and OJ.  The anger isnt due so much to the path of the player taken vs some player taken afterwards.  

 

No thought to long term projections, serious team needs and team building.  If a LW was the BPA in 10 consecutive draft years, there are posters who would want to take all ten of them.  

 

Look at the team that is coming into focus right now and tell.me what the biggest need is.  

 

If you dont pick defence, please go away, you are an idiot.... kidding, but not really. 

 

You dont get to fix certain positions on the fly.  They are very hard to project and to develop.  Defence and Goal are the two that come to mind.  Look how long Markey has taken to get to where he is right now.  Demko was picked in the same draft as JV, he has only 2 NHL starts.  By the standards applied to others Demko is a bust.  

 

But people mostly understand that development takes time and generally pays off.  

 

Looking at JV, the team took a player who was physically well.beyond his peers, but mentally needed to mature.  So he has taken longer to develop mentally.  Now some of the hard work is paying off.  He is NHL worthy.  If he can become more consistant he will be top six worthy.  Progress.  

 

When OJ was picked, physically he was under developed compared to his peers  but very mature and smart.  He has worked at developing his physical self, but there have been some setbacks.  Yet he has by most accounts been completely committed to becoming a better player.  He hasn't lost his maturity or his intelligence, the main reasons he was picked where he was, or the skills like his passing and hockey IQ as witnessed by his ppg which were excellent in Ligia and appeared to be a strength in his injury shortened AHL season.  

 

So what's the problem with OJ? Is he getting bigger and stronger, I would say yes.  Is he committed to making the NHL, yes.  Are his injuries career ending?  No.  

 

But Matt Tkachuk was picked right after him and is playing in the NHL right now.  So what?  

 

We have other guys playing in the NHL right now too vs guys drafting before them.  A number of players on this team were steals in their draft years or scouted and traded as undervalued by their former club.  

 

The agnst displayed around these picks are that of spoiled selfish children.  It would be one thing if we had no other picks that have far exceeded their draft position or where completely sucking.   But currently we have a rookie player who is a lock for the Calder and already gaining some Hart trophy consideration.  One season after having another player miss the Calder only due to injury.  Had Brock been healthy, 40g was well within reach.  He would have won the Calder in a tight race.  

 

So we have the best and brightest toy, all shiny and wonderful and some of us are bitching to our parents that we dont have every nice shiny toy.  Selfish spoiled children.  

 

Harping on prospects before 5 years is stupid.  Development happens at different places and is different for different positions.  Or is what EP40 doing the new normal?  

 

 

 

 

Careful, your insightful logic will scare some of the children here.

[SingleThorn]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Careful, your insightful logic will scare some of the children here.

Never bring logic to an emotional fight !

[Bure_Pavel]

16 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Why.  Training camp is long way away.  He has plenty of time to train.  He can even work on his legs, just not in ever direction.  Kids recover quickly.  In some cases players even improved their skating by taking the time to work on technical issues.  

 

A whole lot can happen and we should wait for judgment, we just dont know.  

8 months is a long time to wait to pass judgement, can we not just pass judgement then back track later.   

[Kootenay Gold]

Like most prospects we are never sure just what we truly have  until they have finished there tenures in the CHL and put a year or two in the AHL.

[Phat Fingers]

On 1/23/2019 at 1:27 PM, The 5th Line said:

@Phat Fingers Buddy not even 10 pages back you are trashing Tkachuk's character.  Don't preach patience unless you are going to be patient with all players.  Not to mention you are in the Woo thread comparing him to Ty Smith?  Let's be patient?  

 

 

 

 

 

Woo is 6th in scoring in the WHL with Ty Smith leading.  That's a comparison on it's own.  Has Ty Smith graduated to the NHL and I am comparing a WHL player to him?  They literally lead play against each other, were both drafted in the same class, play the same position and are only a handful of points away from each other in scoring.  I guess you dont compare apples to, idk, apples.  

 

Funny though, when I wrote that post, somehow I thought you of all posters would internalize it.  I think that has alot more to do with you than anyone else. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Phat Fingers

[Phat Fingers]

2 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

@Phat Fingers Buddy not even 10 pages back you are trashing Tkachuk's character.  Don't preach patience unless you are going to be patient with all players.  Not to mention you are in the Woo thread comparing him to Ty Smith?  Let's be patient?  

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of not bringing logic to the CDC... exhibit number one, the 5th.  

[Phat Fingers]

On 1/23/2019 at 4:05 PM, The 5th Line said:

Is it fair to preach patience but at the same time slam a 21 year old for having (possible) character issues?   Is that your idea of logic?  

Some 21 y/o do have character issues.  Nylander didn't do the leafs any favours did he...  I predict that Tkachuk will do similar and ask for alot of cash ala his dad.  The basis of my criticism of Tkachuk was two fold.  He is reported to be seeking money in the 9 million dollar range, sound familiar, and he reminds me of his dad , a player I couldn't stand. BTW, I never said he wasnt a good player, just that I don't like him.  

 

That isn't to say I can be wrong and maybe Matt is a stand up guy and I rushed to judgement.  

 

The person that can't admit they might have been wrong about something isnt me 5th, it's you.

 

That's why you get so prickly even with general critiques of your view point.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by Phat Fingers

[Gaudette Celly]

15 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

8 months is a long time to wait to pass judgement, can we not just pass judgement then back track later.   

The correct practice, I believe, is to then abandon ship and tie anchor to the latest high pick to not make the team in his D+1.

[Comeback_Kings]

Maybe the next best player onto the EP40 lead Vancouver Canucks roster will one day be Olli Juolevi.  Time will tell I guess.  

[TheRealistOptimist]

I haven't read all the posts. So I don't know if this has been mentioned. 

 

But the greatest example of hypocrisy I can give, is the fact that many on CDC are trying to figure out ways to trade for or acquire Dante Fabbro - (probably mostly cause he's a local kid). While many of the same people are calling Juolevi a bust.

 

They rave about Fabbro who's was drafted in the same year (2016) and is the same age (20) as Juolevi. Even though just like Juolevi, Fabbro is in his 3rd season since getting drafted and not yet in the NHL either.

 

It's like people are in capable of viewing the nuances of development. First off, we really only care about the point totals of prospects, largely because that's the only thing we get to see. But it gets deeper because if Juolevi was in college like Fabbro, people wouldn't be calling him a bust. But because he's not in the NCAA, we disregard his numbers, the fact that he is improving them and the fact that he is doing so in more difficult leagues than Fabbro has been playing in. 

 

Juolevi

2016-17 - OHL - 42 Points in 58 Games

2017-18 - Liiga - 19 Points in 38 Games, playing in one of the top men's leagues in the world

2018-19 - AHL - 13 Points in 18 Games, before getting hurt for the rest of the season

 

Fabbro 

2016-17 - NCAA - 18 Points in 36 Games

2017-18 - NCAA - 29 Points in 38 Games

2018-19 - NCAA - 20 Points in 21 Games

 

Also it's 2019, no one should be worried about knee surgeries these days. 

 

On a side note Juolevi could still be a bust, but we won't know for many more years probably.

 

Fans of the Canucks shouldn't be that harsh to judge. A lot of the fans' all time favourite Canuck Trevor Linden was drum roll please..........a BUST. Meaning there were better picks available when the Canucks drafted him, even if he had a long, nice career.

 

[Toews]

On 1/22/2019 at 3:41 PM, Westcoasting said:

Yep too many high hopes lol, i had him pegged for superstardom! Oh and the biggest reason was seeing the superstar that Pittsburgh got after us. So unfair they already had Mario..

 

On 1/22/2019 at 4:22 PM, Warhippy said:

The only disappointment in him is that Jagr was picked 3 spots later which I am absolutely sure all of CDC would have been yelling about back then in their infinite hindsight granted wisdom :p

 

On 1/22/2019 at 4:53 PM, Phat Fingers said:

Nedved had a good to great career.  He will always be the guy taken ahead of Jagr, to bad.  

I know I have referenced this story in the past but it is worth mentioning again. Jagr was far and away the better prospect. You can look up their career in the Czech Republic and it isn't even remotely close. This wasn't a closely guarded secret either. I believe there is even an interview where Nedved even admits that Jagr is the best player he has ever seen. This was clearly a guy that had no illusions that he was better than Jagr.

 

So why did he get drafted ahead of Jagr? Because Jagr and his agent told every team ahead of Pittsburgh that Jagr would not be coming over. Jagr got his wish which was to play with his idol Lemieux. So essentially some fans held it against Nedved that he wanted to play for the Canucks while Jagr clearly had his eye on greener pastures.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Toews

[The Lock]

On 1/23/2019 at 12:53 PM, Phat Fingers said:

Some 21 y/o do have character issues.  Nylander didn't do the leafs any favours did he...  I predict that Tkachuk will do similar and ask for alot of cash ala his dad.  The basis of my criticism of Tkachuk was two fold.  He is reported to be seeking money in the 9 million dollar range, sound familiar, and he reminds me of his dad , a player I couldn't stand. BTW, I never said he wasnt a good player, just that I don't like him.  

 

That isn't to say I can be wrong and maybe Matt is a stand up guy and I rushed to judgement.  

 

The person that can't admit they might have been wrong about something isnt me 5th, it's you.

 

That's why you get so prickly even with general critiques of your view point.  

I'm just going to say the same thing from however many pages back. It's a prediction and it's clearly a biased prediction as you clearly hate the guy. I honestly haven't seen any solid evidence that Tkachuk has character issues. I'm not going to tell you whether to like or hate a guy, but it was a rather unneeded spread of what's basically just a rumour imo.

 

That being said, I also think 5th attacking what you said 11 pages back (or whatever it was) is also silly and him pouting more than anything and he had no need to bring it up.

Edited January 25, 2019 by The Lock

[JeremyCuddles]

I enjoy the Juolevi thread. Y'all ever get tired of hating on a 20 year old kid? I mean damn, give the kid a chance before you burn him at the stake. This is what happens when people get caught up in where a guy was drafted and who was drafted after him. It's over and done with. Move on, support the kid we did get and hope he develops into something promising, which he is. Every where he goes he starts to excel. There are some learning curves involved but he gets there eventually. Injuries suck but once again, it's easier to hope they aren't serious and he continues to develop. He could very well be on the main roster next season. I am still optimistic about his development, other than the injuries he gets better and better. 

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

Attacking him?  I said don't preach patience in this thread if you aren't equally patient with all young players (like Tkachuk)

 

I had no need to bring it up...yet here you are, bringing it up.

You had no need to bring it up, which is why I pointed it out. It was uncalled for in my opinion.

 

I guess I'm just tired of this forum at times. I guess at least people have heart in here, but sometimes that heart rules over the logic.

 

I guess I'm also just not in a good mood today and probably shouldn't be on this forum so I'll take my leave at the moment.

Edited January 25, 2019 by The Lock

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

 

But the greatest example of hypocrisy I can give, is the fact that many on CDC are trying to figure out ways to trade for or

Fans of the Canucks shouldn't be that harsh to judge. A lot of the fans' all time favourite Canuck Trevor Linden was drum roll please..........a BUST. Meaning there were better picks available when the Canucks drafted him, even if he had a long, nice career.

 

I get what you’re trying to say but IMHO, Linden is a horrible example to use.  As a 18 year old when up with the Canucks, he was hitting everything in sight...in practice!  Never took a shift off or got discouraged despite being on a very bad team (worse than the low point of this current team...THAT bad).  Guy just ozzed leadership from day one.   Who the heck was calling the pick a bust?  They don’t do that even on the HF boards.  You need guys that’ll put up points like Modano but you also need leaders like Linden for the post season ( not like he was offensively challenged).  Jeebus, Trev was one of our better forwards on Team Canada in Nagano.

 

Other NHL GMs valued him.  Look at the haul we got when Keenan traded him.  Bertuzzi, McCabe (one of the main pieces used to get one of the Sedins) and a pick (which we used to draft Jarkko)

Edited January 25, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[canuckledraggin]

14 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I was using it as an example of not having patience for young players outside this organization, since the poster I quoted is in this thread harping on patience with our guys.  You then claim it was uncalled for but proceeded to quote the same poster and started piling on. Sick.  F me, right?

 

I might change my username to "Officer Objective"

You should change your name to "Offended_easily_Need_a_safe_space"

[canuckledraggin]

Just now, The 5th Line said:

Not offended in the slightest just really confused.

 

 

Kidding. You need to take yourself less seriously bud. You're entitled to your opinion even if it's totally wrong

[The Lock]

36 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

Kidding. You need to take yourself less seriously bud. You're entitled to your opinion even if it's totally wrong

Pretty much this. lol

 

Thanks by the way. I needed a laugh today.

Edited January 26, 2019 by The Lock

[TheRealistOptimist]

4 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I get what you’re trying to say but IMHO, Linden is a horrible example to use.  As a 18 year old when up with the Canucks, he was hitting everything in sight...in practice!  Never took a shift off or got discouraged despite being on a very bad team (worse than the low point of this current team...THAT bad).  Guy just ozzed leadership from day one.   Who the heck was calling the pick a bust?  They don’t do that even on the HF boards.  You need guys that’ll put up points like Modano but you also need leaders like Linden for the post season ( not like he was offensively challenged).  Jeebus, Trev was one of our better forwards on Team Canada in Nagano.

 

Other NHL GMs valued him.  Look at the haul we got when Keenan traded him.  Bertuzzi, McCabe (one of the main pieces used to get one of the Sedins) and a pick (which we used to draft Jarkko)

This is where your fandom comes in, because he was probably your favourite player in Canucks history. But the fact is if we play the same game most of CDC plays with Juolevi and Tkachuk or with Virtanen vs Ehlers and Nylander, you will see that the Canucks should've drafted Roenick, Brindamour or Selanne. It doesn't matter that Linden had a pretty good career. Those other guys were unquestionably significantly superior to Trevor Linden. 

[The Lock]

22 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

This is where your fandom comes in, because he was probably your favourite player in Canucks history. But the fact is if we play the same game most of CDC plays with Juolevi and Tkachuk or with Virtanen vs Ehlers and Nylander, you will see that the Canucks should've drafted Roenick, Brindamour or Selanne. It doesn't matter that Linden had a pretty good career. Those other guys were unquestionably significantly superior to Trevor Linden. 

I don't know. I look at that analogy and want to like where you are going with it, but then I look at us drafting Dan Woodley 2 spots ahead of Brian Leetch from 2 years prior to Linden and Jason Herter 2 spots ahead of Bobby Holik the following year. I wish these were isolated cases but unfortunately.... our draft history just plain sucks so I do understand peoples' hesitation on things.

 

Still, I like to be optimistic and root for our prospects. I don't believe in giving up on anyone until they're done done. It seems kind of silly to me to do such a thing. Like why should one cheer for a team if they aren't?

 

EDIT: Just looking at the history further back and it seems before Woodley, things were half decent. Woodley must have literally grabbed a 2x4 and smacked our scouting department or something.

Edited January 26, 2019 by The Lock