Popular Post ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Why these "fans" choose to ignore his first professional season (in Finland) is puzzling. He was outstanding and was putting up numbers up there with historical values for a teen in that league. The puzzling part is people actually believe that. I guess it’s because it’s been parroted over and over to the point where people around here think its fact. Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth, I guess. Nothing about his U20 year in Finland was historical. It was solid at best and it really takes only two seconds to look up the stats debunk this made up theory. Here I’ll do the work for you. https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/liiga/stats/all-time-season?position=d&age=u20&sort=ppg Tell me how this is historical. It’s not. He put up .5 p/gp. Impressive for a U20. But He matched the same point production as “legend” ville pokka. Laaksonen Sabre’s 3rd round pick from 2017 just produced a more “historic” season. Yet no knows even heard of him on these boards. The fact that you compare his season to EP actually record breaking season is insulting. Can you please stop fabricating narratives. While it may give you favor to some on these boards, its negatively adding fuel to abs simply causing more people to be falsely misguided. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, gurn said: 0 people born on the moon, have played NHL hockey, let alone on defense. Stats are fun. Expect my stat has relevance to the conversation. Yours....not so much. Heres a the list of d picked in the top 10 to have played less than 30 games heading into there D+4 season. Reinhart, lee, valabik, ellerby and Koekkoek and another 3 other NHL d failed to play any NHL games prior to there D+4 seasons. Fluery, Hickey and Mcilrath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Expect my stat has relevance to the conversation. Yours....not so much. Heres a the list of d picked in the top 10 to have played less than 30 games heading into there D+4 season. Reinhart, lee, valabik, ellerby and Koekkoek and another 3 other NHL d failed to play any NHL games prior to there D+4 seasons. Fluery, Hickey and Mcilrath. Wow. Looks like a bunch of Busts. Couldn’t be true for our guy though... he’s a Canuck and Canucks prospects never bust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Expect my stat has relevance to the conversation. Yours....not so much. Heres a the list of d picked in the top 10 to have played less than 30 games heading into there D+4 season. Reinhart, lee, valabik, ellerby and Koekkoek and another 3 other NHL d failed to play any NHL games prior to there D+4 seasons. Fluery, Hickey and Mcilrath. We should actually look at how many D drafted Following the same criteria actually make it to be a full time player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Why these "fans" choose to ignore his first professional season (in Finland) is puzzling. He was outstanding and was putting up numbers up there with historical values for a teen in that league. The parallels to the success EP40 was having in Sweden were not lost on those who really followed him but seemingly by many in the Canuck marketplace. This coupled with the game he was playing in Utica (easily leading his team and in top of AHL in rookie D scoring at time of injury) it remains odd how people seem to keep creating divergent versions of this reality. seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Only 3 D picked in the top 10 from the last 15 years have failed to play NHL games prior to there D+4 season. Ollie is the 4th. He’s heading into his d +4 but that being said he’s had set back, how many Nhl d men where playin before 21 and how many had 2 major surgeries in that time frame? Edited July 25, 2019 by Dats hockey 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: We should actually look at how many D drafted Following the same criteria actually make it to be a full time player. Yep we should. The total number of D picked 10 top in that same time frame is 43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: He’s heading into his d +4 Yep. That’s why I said no games played prior to the D+4 year. I guess that was a poor way at saying, no games played in their first 3 years, post draft. Edited July 25, 2019 by ForsbergTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yep. That’s why I said no games played prior to the D+4 year. I guess that was a poor way at saying, no games played in their first 3 years, post draft. I edited but yeah in 3 years 2 major surgeries sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: The puzzling part is people actually believe that. I guess it’s because it’s been parroted over and over to the point where people around here think its fact. Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth, I guess. Nothing about his U20 year in Finland was historical. It was solid at best and it really takes only two seconds to look up the stats debunk this made up theory. Here I’ll do the work for you. https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/liiga/stats/all-time-season?position=d&age=u20&sort=ppg Tell me how this is historical. It’s not. He put up .5 p/gp. Impressive for a U20. But He matched the same point production as “legend” ville pokka. Laaksonen Sabre’s 3rd round pick from 2017 just produced a more “historic” season. Yet no knows even heard of him on these boards. The fact that you compare his season to EP actually record breaking season is insulting. Can you please stop fabricating narratives. While it may give you favor to some on these boards, its negatively adding fuel to abs simply causing more people to be falsely misguided. We can put the Tkachuk vs Juolevi debate to bed as well. Matthew is looking for a contract between 8-9 million per year and Ollie is looking to play an NHL game. As Forsberg has said hoping Ollie becomes a 1 or 2 D is not the same as reality regardless of injuries. Let’s stop pumping his tires until He at least makes the NHL. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yep we should. The total number of D picked 10 top in that same time frame is 43. How many took 4-5 seasons to make it and were actually successful?(had a 5 year+ career?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: He’s heading into his d +4 but that being said he’s had set back, how many Nhl d men where playin before 21 and how many had 2 major surgeries in that time frame? Only 21 from his draft year have played at least half a season but about 100 have had a cup of coffee at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: How many took 4-5 seasons to make it and were actually successful?(had a 5 year+ career?) Depends how you define “make it”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Depends how you define “make it”. Play at least 50 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe-max Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Expect my stat has relevance to the conversation. Yours....not so much. Heres a the list of d picked in the top 10 to have played less than 30 games heading into there D+4 season. Reinhart, lee, valabik, ellerby and Koekkoek and another 3 other NHL d failed to play any NHL games prior to there D+4 seasons. Fluery, Hickey and Mcilrath. Doesn't change the fact that at this point it's all just projections, probabilities, playing with numbers. Change your list to "playoffs" and it looks much more favourable for Juolevi. You could argue that his teenager season was much better than Teppo Numminen's and Ristolainen's. I can appreciate that it is fun for people comparing these numbers, making deductions and predicting the future, but at the end of the day it is juggling with odds. The outcome can still be anything. There will be outliers, unexpected changes, late bloomers, injuries,... Juolevi has had (severe) injury problems, which slowed down his development, the chances that he will be an impact player are lower than if he had stayed healthy the last three years. So what? He can still become one. Speculating won't help, crying won't help. Juolevi will need some time until he is ready, nothing unusual after the long absence. I hope people will have the patience and just calm down. It is the only thing they can do anyways (apart from selling him low, which would be the most terrible idea). 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Play at least 50 games. I don’t have any records in front of me, but I think a lot of D men don’t play fifty NHL games before age 21. How old is OJ anyway? He’s still young, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Alflives said: I don’t have any records in front of me, but I think a lot of D men don’t play fifty NHL games before age 21. How old is OJ anyway? He’s still young, right? Well.... the nhl consensus is that an nhl play will be everything that they’re going to be by time they’re 24, that the top 5-10 are nhl ready at the time of being drafted. And that Allstars will be playing full time by the time they’re 21. I hear these 3 points time and time again on hockey central at noon. Nothing wrong with OJ except that I think we picked the 25th-30th best player with the 5th overall. Maybe he makes it maybe he doesn’t. At this point it’s a coin flip and it doesn’t really matter. Who cares? Hakuna mattata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Well.... the nhl consensus is that an nhl play will be everything that they’re going to be by time they’re 24, that the top 5-10 are nhl ready at the time of being drafted. And that Allstars will be playing full time by the time they’re 21. I hear these 3 points time and time again on hockey central at noon. Nothing wrong with OJ except that I think we picked the 25th-30th best player with the 5th overall. Maybe he makes it maybe he doesn’t. At this point it’s a coin flip and it doesn’t really matter. Who cares? Hakuna mattata. Hawks, during their rebuild that got them a young core that won three Cups, drafted Barker at 3OA and Skille at 8OA. Every team misses some picks. Not saying OJ is a miss, but getting Petey and Hughes is the key to us winning three Cups in the coming decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 32 minutes ago, Sedintwinpowersactivate said: We can put the Tkachuk vs Juolevi debate to bed as well. Matthew is looking for a contract between 8-9 million per year and Ollie is looking to play an NHL game. As Forsberg has said hoping Ollie becomes a 1 or 2 D is not the same as reality regardless of injuries. Let’s stop pumping his tires until He at least makes the NHL. Yep. The best thing for Juolevi is to stay out of the spotlight. Too many fans feel the need to come up with excuses in order to build hope. But all that does is create unrealistic expectations and unmanageable pressure on the kid. What good does it do, to create false facts and compare his decent season to EP’s record breaker? It’s just as negatively impactful as the people that are calling him a bust. Will OJ be better than MT? No but who cares anymore, Benning got one wrong, no GM is perfect. Lets cross our fingers and cheer him on to become an asset to this team one day. Be it a 2nd pairing guy or even a solid 3rdpairing guy, this team needs D and he can fill that need. Once the unreasonable expectation start to fade in a few years, I expect conversations and player comparison on him will stop. It’s not that much different than Virtanen. Once people accepted that he’s likely not going to be our elite PWF and that he’s more probably going to just be a solid middle 6 guy, the hate around him faded. Same thing will happen with OJ in time. I just hope he’s not fed up with this market by then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yep. The best thing for Juolevi is to stay out of the spotlight. Too many fans feel the need to come up with excuses in order to build hope. But all that does is create unrealistic expectations and unmanageable pressure on the kid. What good does it do, to create false facts and compare his decent season to EP’s record breaker? It’s just as negatively impactful as the people that are calling him a bust. Will OJ be better than MT? No but who cares anymore, Benning got one wrong, no GM is perfect. Lets cross our fingers and cheer him on to become an asset to this team one day. Be it a 2nd pairing guy or even a solid 3rdpairing guy, this team needs D and he can fill that need. Once the unreasonable expectation start to fade in a few years, I expect conversations and player comparison on him will stop. It’s not that much different than Virtanen. Once people accepted that he’s likely not going to be our elite PWF and that he’s more probably going to just be a solid middle 6 guy, the hate around him faded. Same thing will happen with OJ in time. I just hope he’s not fed up with this market by then. Actually. Time heals all wounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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